A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

General Discussion About Anything Amityville And Other Paranormal Topics
Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3113

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:41 am

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:
Miz Kizzle wrote:
But how do you account for the priest account of what happened when he blessed the house? Was he in on the conspiracy? How about the neighbor who saw George walking around the house with the priest? What about the police officer who said George came into the Amityville police station and turned in his gun because he (George) had thought of doing harm to his family?
Well I guess one could say that perhaps there was a hidden recorder with the words "get out" hidden in the room? I'm not saying that's what I think happened, I'm just saying one who thinks it was a hoax could say that.

As for the gun, if one thinks George was out to fool the public, turning the gun into the police would be to fool people.

Like I said, not saying I think this is what happened, but if I were a believer it was a hoax, that's what I would think.

But what about the priest saying he felt something slapping his face, but he couldn't see anyone or something in the room?

User avatar
BooshaGirl
Amityville Addict
Posts: 697

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by BooshaGirl » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:09 am

Yeah...good one, Victoria. You can't fake an invisible slap.

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3113

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:06 am

BooshaGirl wrote:Yeah...good one, Victoria. You can't fake an invisible slap.

There is also the picture of Father Ray with the Lutz family after they moved out. Unless that was fake too, he obviously had more of a relationship with the Lutzs than merely counseling them via a phone call.

Brooke Forrester
Amityville Addict
Posts: 686
Location: In love

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Brooke Forrester » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:28 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
But what about the priest saying he felt something slapping his face, but he couldn't see anyone or something in the room?
I suppose someone could say he imagined it or even that he made it up. Like I said, I'm not saying I think they made it up, just saying what a real skeptic could say to try to disprove the claims.

Miz Kizzle
Amityville Addict
Posts: 203

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Miz Kizzle » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:16 am

George turning in his gun to the police doesn't prove the house was haunted. He may really have been aware that he had anger issues and didn't want a gun around in case he flew off the handle at Kathy and the kids.
As for Father Ray, if he really went inside the house, he may have been a suggestible person who expected to encounter something evil in a house where a mass murder was committed, and therefore imagined he heard the voice and felt his face being slapped, or he might have made it up at the request of the Lutzes and Weber. I'm not saying he did, but priests are only human, and he might have been promised cash or a chance of fame on the talk show circuit. Priests who encountered demons were a hot item in the nineteen-seventies.

FrogPants
Amityville Member
Posts: 62
Location: Wherever I go, there I am

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by FrogPants » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:19 am

Miz Kizzle wrote:George turning in his gun to the police doesn't prove the house was haunted. He may really have been aware that he had anger issues and didn't want a gun around in case he flew off the handle at Kathy and the kids.
As for Father Ray, if he really went inside the house, he may have been a suggestible person who expected to encounter something evil in a house where a mass murder was committed, and therefore imagined he heard the voice and felt his face being slapped, or he might have made it up at the request of the Lutzes and Weber. I'm not saying he did, but priests are only human, and he might have been promised cash or a chance of fame on the talk show circuit. Priests who encountered demons were a hot item in the nineteen-seventies.
Bingo.
Sometimes you just have to pee in the sink - Charles Bukowski

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3113

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:17 am

Miz Kizzle wrote:George turning in his gun to the police doesn't prove the house was haunted. He may really have been aware that he had anger issues and didn't want a gun around in case he flew off the handle at Kathy and the kids.
As for Father Ray, if he really went inside the house, he may have been a suggestible person who expected to encounter something evil in a house where a mass murder was committed, and therefore imagined he heard the voice and felt his face being slapped, or he might have made it up at the request of the Lutzes and Weber. I'm not saying he did, but priests are only human, and he might have been promised cash or a chance of fame on the talk show circuit. Priests who encountered demons were a hot item in the nineteen-seventies.

There is a link in the archives where one of the neighbors witnessed George and a priest going around the house looking at it.

Miz Kizzle
Amityville Addict
Posts: 203

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Miz Kizzle » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:14 am

A witness stating they saw George and a priest going around the house and looking at it is not proof that the priest was slapped in the face and ordered to "Get out" by a disembodied voice. I'm just sayin'.

User avatar
Brendan72
Forest Giant
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Brendan72 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:12 am

I understand Father Ray did the blessing by himself while the Lutz's were busy moving their belongings into the house.

It was not until after the blessing, on the same day that Father Ray mentioned feeling something odd in what would become the sewing room (the same room he claimed to have gotten slapped and told to "get out"). According to George, the priest did not tell them that day exactly what had happened. It wasn't until much later that George and Kathy learned what transpired.

I would be very cautious about taking seriously claims made by a neighbour (what neighbour?) or any second-hand 'he-said-she-said' information, especially when it cannot be verified. As much as people can say the priest's claims cannot be believed even if he made them himself, to me it carries a lot more weight then something that comes from Chinese whispers.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3113

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:50 am

Miz Kizzle wrote:A witness stating they saw George and a priest going around the house and looking at it is not proof that the priest was slapped in the face and ordered to "Get out" by a disembodied voice. I'm just sayin'.
No, but it disputes the claims that the priest never ever stepped foot in the house.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9835
Contact:

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:26 pm

I think the alleged witnessing of George and a Priest armed "with a big cross" entering the house took place after they had left.

Either this is an exaggerated version of when he returned with a psychic, or it's made up.

User avatar
daiichi
Amityville Member
Posts: 76

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by daiichi » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:56 am

I've been thinking about this again. Because this whole part of the narrative just doesn't make sense to me. George and Kathy are in this house, and they're hearing blood curdling screams. They're hearing terrifying things coming from everywhere. They're seeing demonic pigs in the children's bedrooms. In their own words, they've been spending sleepless nights, frozen in terror and drenched in their own sweat. Holding each other tight for safety until the sun rises. But in the midst of all of this, they see it as perfectly reasonable and prudent to seclude their children alone in different sections of the house. :think:

So here's what I think. George and Kathy were embellishing. A lot. Especially the final night. I don't think it was nearly as terrifying as they were letting on. So in reality, the kids probably did sleep in their own rooms. And for the sake of narrative consistency, George and Kathy had to adhere to this truth.

If George and Kathy had claimed that the family spent the last few nights huddled together, barricaded in the master bedroom, it would have made a lot more sense. That would have been easier to swallow. But it didn't happen. And since the kids were active participants in these events, George and Kathy couldn't outright fabricate their roles. I mean, kids that age will believe just about anything their parents tell them. But if George and Kathy told them that they spent the last few nights together in the house, even the kids would say... 'wait a minute, that never happened.'

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9835
Contact:

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:01 pm

daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:56 am
George and Kathy are in this house, and they're hearing blood curdling screams. They're hearing terrifying things coming from everywhere. They're seeing demonic pigs in the children's bedrooms. In their own words, they've been spending sleepless nights, frozen in terror and drenched in their own sweat. Holding each other tight for safety until the sun rises.
I'm not sure this is true. I think the final night was the only sleepless one George had, and Kathy Slept through it!

User avatar
daiichi
Amityville Member
Posts: 76

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by daiichi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:28 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:01 pm
I'm not sure this is true. I think the final night was the only sleepless one George had, and Kathy Slept through it!
I doubt it's true either, but I pulled the info from the Good Housekeeping article. Based on that information, George and Kathy spent their next-to-last night awake, terrified and shivering. It also says that they were both awake for the final night in the house, holding each other for comfort. I guess we can say that Hoffman got it all wrong as he transcribed their experience, but even when I listen to George tell his version of events, some of the key details change each time.

Stephanie2019
Amityville Member
Posts: 11

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Stephanie2019 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am

I'm not certain where I read this, but someone who was doing some deep digging into the haunting claims by the Lutz's somehow searched the school records for the kids, and found that the kids were never enrolled in ANY Amityville school, which I found strange. They had been searched under both the Lutz name, and their birth name of Quaratino...and still nothing.

I wonder if it's because they were on a winter break from school at the time that they lived in the house, and they never got around to enrolling them in school, or George and Kathy just kept them at their old schools, since they moved from a neighboring town when they bought the house.

indigo_turquoise
Amityville Member
Posts: 14

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by indigo_turquoise » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 pm

Stephanie2019 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am
I'm not certain where I read this, but someone who was doing some deep digging into the haunting claims by the Lutz's somehow searched the school records for the kids, and found that the kids were never enrolled in ANY Amityville school, which I found strange. They had been searched under both the Lutz name, and their birth name of Quaratino...and still nothing.

I wonder if it's because they were on a winter break from school at the time that they lived in the house, and they never got around to enrolling them in school, or George and Kathy just kept them at their old schools, since they moved from a neighboring town when they bought the house.
Did this person find out what school they DID go to? 90% of kids in Amityville south of Merrick Road go to private school, mostly to St. Martin like the DeFeos but a good number go out of town too. So if they were enrolled in private school before moving and just remained there, that's pretty normal. If they were enrolled in Deer Park Public Schools throughout the whole time though, that would be suspicious.

Stephanie2019
Amityville Member
Posts: 11

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Stephanie2019 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:45 pm

indigo_turquoise wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 pm
Stephanie2019 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am
I'm not certain where I read this, but someone who was doing some deep digging into the haunting claims by the Lutz's somehow searched the school records for the kids, and found that the kids were never enrolled in ANY Amityville school, which I found strange. They had been searched under both the Lutz name, and their birth name of Quaratino...and still nothing.

I wonder if it's because they were on a winter break from school at the time that they lived in the house, and they never got around to enrolling them in school, or George and Kathy just kept them at their old schools, since they moved from a neighboring town when they bought the house.
Did this person find out what school they DID go to? 90% of kids in Amityville south of Merrick Road go to private school, mostly to St. Martin like the DeFeos but a good number go out of town too. So if they were enrolled in private school before moving and just remained there, that's pretty normal. If they were enrolled in Deer Park Public Schools throughout the whole time though, that would be suspicious.
I honestly couldn't tell you what they found out. However, given that these kids were only living in the house for 28 days, also during what is traditionally Christmas vacation, it's possible that they just let the kids finish in Deer Park, and may have intended to enroll them after the Winter break, but it never happened.

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1950

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by msmart112 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:35 pm

Stephanie2019 wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:45 pm
indigo_turquoise wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 pm
Stephanie2019 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am
I'm not certain where I read this, but someone who was doing some deep digging into the haunting claims by the Lutz's somehow searched the school records for the kids, and found that the kids were never enrolled in ANY Amityville school, which I found strange. They had been searched under both the Lutz name, and their birth name of Quaratino...and still nothing.

I wonder if it's because they were on a winter break from school at the time that they lived in the house, and they never got around to enrolling them in school, or George and Kathy just kept them at their old schools, since they moved from a neighboring town when they bought the house.
Did this person find out what school they DID go to? 90% of kids in Amityville south of Merrick Road go to private school, mostly to St. Martin like the DeFeos but a good number go out of town too. So if they were enrolled in private school before moving and just remained there, that's pretty normal. If they were enrolled in Deer Park Public Schools throughout the whole time though, that would be suspicious.
I honestly couldn't tell you what they found out. However, given that these kids were only living in the house for 28 days, also during what is traditionally Christmas vacation, it's possible that they just let the kids finish in Deer Park, and may have intended to enroll them after the Winter break, but it never happened.
I've always been curious about this...and I'm surprised that no one (to my knowledge) has ever asked Chris or Danny about where they attended school while they lived in Amityville.
Image

Wallace
Amityville Member
Posts: 23

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Wallace » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:22 am

"George turning in his gun to the police doesn't prove the house was haunted. He may really have been aware that he had anger issues and didn't want a gun around in case he flew off the handle at Kathy and the kids."

I actually remember George Lutz commenting on this claim during an interview on the show of the late Lou Gentile. He said that it was something that Steven Kaplan had blown completely out of proportion. According to George, he routinely left his gun at the police station. Why? Because George legally carried a handgun to protect himself from would-be muggers that would try to take the large amount of cash he carried around for his business. Unfortunately, his concealed carry permit was only good in one county. Before he could go to another county, he had to leave his gun at a police station. I don't know how true this statement is, but it does make sense, considering how strict the gun laws are in New York. I know that Kaplan supposedly talked to the police about George leaving his gun at the police station, but is there any thing else to support the claim that George left his gun because he was afraid that he would harm his family, besides the words of Kaplan? :think:

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1950

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by msmart112 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:46 pm

Wallace wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:22 am
I actually remember George Lutz commenting on this claim during an interview on the show of the late Lou Gentile. He said that it was something that Steven Kaplan had blown completely out of proportion. According to George, he routinely left his gun at the police station. Why? Because George legally carried a handgun to protect himself from would-be muggers that would try to take the large amount of cash he carried around for his business. Unfortunately, his concealed carry permit was only good in one county. Before he could go to another county, he had to leave his gun at a police station. I don't know how true this statement is, but it does make sense, considering how strict the gun laws are in New York.
I've always wondered about this. The house was just one mile from the police station...so why not just leave the gun at home?
Image

Wallace
Amityville Member
Posts: 23

Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Wallace » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:00 pm

"I've always wondered about this. The house was just one mile from the police station...so why not just leave the gun at home?"

You may have a point about that, however I still have to ask if there is anything else to support the claim that Lutz left his gun at the police station out of fear of harming his family other than the claim made by Kaplan?

Post Reply