A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

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daiichi
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A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by daiichi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:06 pm

Hi, all. Sorry to post my second new topic in less than a week, but I've been sitting here thinking about an issue that's troubled me with the Lutz's final night at 112 Ocean Avenue. I'd like to toss it out here and see what you all have to think about it.

Now first of all, I think we're all aware that the Lutzes did not flee the house in the middle of the night, as I believe it's portrayed in the movie and in Jay Anson's book. Although, curiously, in the 2012 documentary, "My Amityville Horror", Daniel Lutz made a comment about them leaving in the middle of the night while still in their pajamas.

But let's go ahead and follow George's narrative of events, in that they waited until the kids came home from school the following day and quietly packed up some belongings and left for his mother-in-law's house. What I find strange is, what children, ages 5, 7, and 10, would be in their own bedrooms during these terrifying nights, secluded from their parents? From personal experience of having a child of my own (and once being a child myself), if there's so much as a bolt of lightning outside, it's off to bed with mom and dad!

I know for a fact that Daniel and Christopher were supposedly in their own beds upstairs (because George could hear them floating around and their beds banging up against the walls and floors). Melissa I'm not sure about, but I imagine she was in her own room as well, since George has made remarks on several occasions that he wanted to go upstairs to help the kids, but "could not move".

Does all this not strike anyone else as odd? Don't you think if there were marching bands, blood curdling screams, creepy demon pigs, and doors/windows banging open and shut (to name just a few horrifying phenomena...) that the family would be barricaded in together?

FrogPants
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by FrogPants » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:04 pm

Just one more head scratching inconsistency.
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quotestheraven
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by quotestheraven » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:08 am

From everything I've heard from Daniel and Christopher George and Kathy weren't exactly candidates for world's greatest parents. I mean these are the same people - who after all this trauma - dumped the kids in boarding school so that they could go on a publicity tour. Then, instead of sending Daniel to live with relatives, she let him just leave home at the age of 15 and be homeless.

When you say, "if it were me..." You're describing what normal parents would do. George and Kathy just don't sound like normal parents to me.
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:03 am

quotestheraven wrote:From everything I've heard from Daniel and Christopher George and Kathy weren't exactly candidates for world's greatest parents. I mean these are the same people - who after all this trauma - dumped the kids in boarding school so that they could go on a publicity tour. Then, instead of sending Daniel to live with relatives, she let him just leave home at the age of 15 and be homeless.

When you say, "if it were me..." You're describing what normal parents would do. George and Kathy just don't sound like normal parents to me.
Very well said, Raven.

Also don't forget that they never changed the kids names in the book as they later did in the movie.

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BooshaGirl
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by BooshaGirl » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:20 am

VERY good points!

I know if my children are afraid or even have a slight nightmare, they come into my bed. If I hear them being "distressed" in any way--I wake up (although I can sleep through anything else--if I hear my child vomiting or crying, I immediately wake up). Then again, the "ghost" in my house is a nice one and would never prevent me from bolting out of bed to "rescue" my child. I'm sorry--but I don't think even a demonic "force" could overpower a mother's instinctive powerful protection of her children. I'd kick that demon's ASS.

Yeah, George and Kathy -- that's wasn't cool -- using their real names, sending them to boarding school, etc. I couldn't even IMAGINE being apart from my children for longer than a weekend....I've never thought about all that much until now. Those poor Lutz children (even though not biologically Lutz children) were already traumatized from divorce, remarriage, moving to 3 new places in one year's time..and then their folks just dump them like old shoes. Very sad.

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:32 pm

One of the interesting "flubbs" of the 1979 Amityville Horror movie was that Missy's name was changed to Amy. During the scene with the babysitter in the closet, George/Mr. Steissand calls the babysitter "Amy". Amy was the actresses name, not the character's name.

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by KevinW » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:04 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:One of the interesting "flubbs" of the 1979 Amityville Horror movie was that Missy's name was changed to Amy. During the scene with the babysitter in the closet, George/Mr. Steissand calls the babysitter "Amy". Amy was the actresses name, not the character's name.
The boys were also renamed to Matt and Greg.

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Miz Kizzle » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:17 am

George seems like the kind of person who would have strict rules about what his stepchildren could and couldn't do. I imagine running into the master bedroom if they were frightened at night was not an option for the kids. Calling out to their mother to come and help them might well have gotten them a spanking from George; he just seemed like that kind of guy.
That kind of strict parenting wasn't all that uncommon in that era. Neither was sending kids to boarding school. My husband and his two brothers all went away to boarding school as soon as they reached fourteen. In their case it was a family tradition. Neither George nor Kathy came from a boarding school background, as far as I know. They could have seen it as a way to help the kids move up in the world by giving them a better education than they could get in public school.
As for Daniel leaving home at fifteen, Kathy couldn't do anything to prevent him if he was determined to leave, except calling the cops or children and family services and having him locked up as a juvenile in need of supervision. She probably realized (wisely) that it would only have made him angrier and more defiant.
George and Kathy's version of what happened in the house during their brief occupancy just doesn't ring true to me. There's no evidence that the front door was damaged, no police reports of possible trespassers, no record of a plumber being called about the mysterious oozing stuff -- nothing.
I think the Lutzes and Weber made most of it up as a money-making venture and it worked!

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:16 am

Miz Kizzle wrote:George seems like the kind of person who would have strict rules about what his stepchildren could and couldn't do. I imagine running into the master bedroom if they were frightened at night was not an option for the kids. Calling out to their mother to come and help them might well have gotten them a spanking from George; he just seemed like that kind of guy.
That kind of strict parenting wasn't all that uncommon in that era. Neither was sending kids to boarding school. My husband and his two brothers all went away to boarding school as soon as they reached fourteen. In their case it was a family tradition. Neither George nor Kathy came from a boarding school background, as far as I know. They could have seen it as a way to help the kids move up in the world by giving them a better education than they could get in public school.
As for Daniel leaving home at fifteen, Kathy couldn't do anything to prevent him if he was determined to leave, except calling the cops or children and family services and having him locked up as a juvenile in need of supervision. She probably realized (wisely) that it would only have made him angrier and more defiant.
George and Kathy's version of what happened in the house during their brief occupancy just doesn't ring true to me. There's no evidence that the front door was damaged, no police reports of possible trespassers, no record of a plumber being called about the mysterious oozing stuff -- nothing.
I think the Lutzes and Weber made most of it up as a money-making venture and it worked!
But how do you account for the priest account of what happened when he blessed the house? Was he in on the conspiracy? How about the neighbor who saw George walking around the house with the priest? What about the police officer who said George came into the Amityville police station and turned in his gun because he (George) had thought of doing harm to his family?

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by Brooke Forrester » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:35 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:
Miz Kizzle wrote:
But how do you account for the priest account of what happened when he blessed the house? Was he in on the conspiracy? How about the neighbor who saw George walking around the house with the priest? What about the police officer who said George came into the Amityville police station and turned in his gun because he (George) had thought of doing harm to his family?
Well I guess one could say that perhaps there was a hidden recorder with the words "get out" hidden in the room? I'm not saying that's what I think happened, I'm just saying one who thinks it was a hoax could say that.

As for the gun, if one thinks George was out to fool the public, turning the gun into the police would be to fool people.

Like I said, not saying I think this is what happened, but if I were a believer it was a hoax, that's what I would think.

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daiichi
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by daiichi » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 pm

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:
Miz Kizzle wrote:
But how do you account for the priest account of what happened when he blessed the house? Was he in on the conspiracy? How about the neighbor who saw George walking around the house with the priest? What about the police officer who said George came into the Amityville police station and turned in his gun because he (George) had thought of doing harm to his family?
Well I guess one could say that perhaps there was a hidden recorder with the words "get out" hidden in the room? I'm not saying that's what I think happened, I'm just saying one who thinks it was a hoax could say that.

As for the gun, if one thinks George was out to fool the public, turning the gun into the police would be to fool people.

Like I said, not saying I think this is what happened, but if I were a believer it was a hoax, that's what I would think.
I like that idea of the tape recorder, but it seems pretty unlikely. Maybe George had a microphone and hid a wireless transceiver inside a moving box in the room? :think:

Or Maybe George and Kathy came up with the idea of claiming the house to be haunted and ultimately abandoning it when Father Ray came downstairs and told them he experienced something strange. Maybe they believed him or maybe they didn't, but they decided that night over some pillow talk that they'd just go along with the whole idea and play it out.

Again, just playing devil's advocate here :D

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by FrogPants » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:53 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the priest testified in a court of law that he never stepped foot in the house.
Sometimes you just have to pee in the sink - Charles Bukowski

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by DC Fan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:16 pm

FrogPants wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the priest testified in a court of law that he never stepped foot in the house.
Frog:

Do you have a response to my first post in the who is the priest thread below? I'm not sure even about the origin of that theory.

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... =1&t=10315

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:21 pm

You are mistaken ;)

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by DC Fan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:25 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:You are mistaken ;)
Sherb:

Who is mistaken, Frog or me? Do you know the history of this theory about Father Ray's testimony?

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by FrogPants » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:29 pm

Webers court dealings with the Lutz's I think had the priest involved with that. I think he testified that he counceled them only on the phone.
Sometimes you just have to pee in the sink - Charles Bukowski

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VampireKen
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by VampireKen » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:34 pm

FrogPants wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the priest testified in a court of law that he never stepped foot in the house.

Nobody knows what the priest said, because the testimony was sealed. So it's impossible that "That's Incredible" ever saw the documents.
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:37 pm

DC Fan wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote:You are mistaken ;)
Sherb:

Who is mistaken, Frog or me? Do you know the history of this theory about Father Ray's testimony?
Oops, I must have replied before you posted - my reply was meant for Frog.

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:49 pm

FrogPants wrote:Webers court dealings with the Lutz's I think had the priest involved with that. I think he testified that he counceled them only on the phone.
No-one knows what he testified.

The "only over the phone" thing comes from these pages:

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/reference/priest1.html


And here's a couple of threads discussing its possible meaning:

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... f=1&t=9407

and

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... 91#p150987

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DC Fan
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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by DC Fan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:26 pm

Thanks Sherb. I think you and Dan within the link have cleared things up very well.

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Re: A Thought About The Lutz's Final Night

Post by FrogPants » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:41 pm

It says right in that document that his only contact with them was a phone call. It's pretty clear that statement was about more than the book deal.
Sometimes you just have to pee in the sink - Charles Bukowski

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