real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the houes

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sherbetbizarre
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James Smith - realtor

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:34 am

From the May 2010 article -
Almost as soon as he arrived yesterday for a broker open house at 108 Ocean Ave., Realtor James Smith says he "got an eerie feeling." But it wasn't until he went into the basement of the so-called Amityville Horror house that, he says, he got goosebumps and the hair stood up on the back of his neck.

"You felt like something was there," says Smith.

He says he asked two other agents in the basement with him, "Did you feel that?" Then, he says, "We took off and got out of there."
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/real ... -1.1952134

His post on this forum -
James Smith wrote:This is James Smith... Its amazing to see this story still going.. lol... I have been approached by quite a few people to write a book on my experiences within the past month or so (bizzare). However, what I can say is that the accounts I describe were very real, and actually I down played some events as to not create a media frenzy. We actually ran very fast out of that house! I would never go in there again!!
http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... th#p130432

And now he reveals "his entire experience in the house that day" to Will Savive:
James Smith wrote:There was a hole there. It was about 15’ by 15’ and, hey, Will, I can’t even describe it, but it was such an eerie, eerie feeling. Cold air was coming out of this hole…it was very cold, very, very cold. Now we are in the summer, it was the summer; it’s probably 90 degrees outside, and the air that was coming out of that hole was like someone opened their freezer door.


http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2011/10/ ... orror.html

Victoria Principles
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:13 am

Maybe he discovered the air duct to hell.

Victoria Principles
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:30 am

Am I the only one who is having troubles believing this real estate agent?

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BooshaGirl
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by BooshaGirl » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:36 am

Victoria Principles wrote:Maybe he discovered the air duct to hell.

LMAO! I don't believe him, either. I believe he was THERE, but all that mumbo-jumbo--he's enjoying his "15 minutes"

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DC Fan
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by DC Fan » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:42 am

You can tell he's another big fan strictly of the movies. He needs to have some huge and spectacular portal to hell, rather than the compact and docile model that most of us prefer in our own homes.

And that business of another real estate agent being willing to take a risk with the demonic for a commission--major LOL.

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bella2005
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by bella2005 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:41 pm

Sounds like he is just trying to make money and get some kind of book deal.

Miz Kizzle
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Miz Kizzle » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:24 am

Realtors generally have knack of making the most objectionable features of wretched stys that are unfit for human habitation into selling points. Free air conditioning sounds much better than icy chill of doom.

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Julabard
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Julabard » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:21 pm

I hope this James guy recovers from his awful ordeal!
Okay, I see you there! There's a 12 gauge shotgun, waitin' for anybody trespassin'!

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Shawn
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Shawn » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:53 pm

Miz Kizzle wrote:Realtors generally have knack of making the most objectionable features of wretched stys that are unfit for human habitation into selling points. Free air conditioning sounds much better than icy chill of doom.


LMAO! :clap:
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bella2005
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by bella2005 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:00 pm

He was probably standing in front of a freezer.

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Deadguydan
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Deadguydan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:49 pm

He described it as "15' by 15'" square hole. That's FIFTEEN FEET!! He had to have meant 15" (inches)? If not that is one big damn hole in the wall....hell it's the entire wall! LOL

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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by Brooke Forrester » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:33 pm

If he's telling the truth, it's probably just his imagination.

Anyone who has heard the story might get an "eerie" feeling, because of the murders and the Lutz story, especially in the basement, if they read The Amityville Horror or saw the film, even if they have just a little belief in the story.

And it's not unusual for a basement to have cold spots or be cold all over, even in summer.

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real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the houes

Post by jecht » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:01 am

http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2011/10/ ... orror.html

Damn.

In describing the hole a bit further, James said that there was a concrete wall with a square hole in it, as if someone had purposely took out these brinks. He said that he could see inside the hole only about 12 inches, and he noticed dirt, but it was pitch black otherwise. As he descried the air coming out of the hole, he made it a point to inform me that it wasn’t just rushing out of the hole; it was more like someone had just opened up the freezer door of a really big freezer. He said that he immediately got goose bumps and everyone in the basement was experiencing something similar, from his point of view.

James Smith: The room just felt like…I’m trying to describe it exactly. You know that feeling when you are sleeping and you can tell someone is looking over you, someone is standing there before you even see them, and then you open your eyes and you see someone standing there? That’s what it felt like. So, we all looked at each other and we took off!
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jecht
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Re: James Smith - realtor

Post by jecht » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:26 pm

Brooke Forrester wrote:If he's telling the truth, it's probably just his imagination.

Anyone who has heard the story might get an "eerie" feeling, because of the murders and the Lutz story, especially in the basement, if they read The Amityville Horror or saw the film, even if they have just a little belief in the story.

And it's not unusual for a basement to have cold spots or be cold all over, even in summer.
I think it's a bit out there, but it's a new story I hadn't heard of at that point. I've been away from the board for awhile so this may have come up.

I was active here in '04-07, then on and off until now.

Someone used to have a psychic website here and she posted all sorts of reflections on Amityville--the house was breathing, etc. etc. but the website is long gone.
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by Amityville Rock » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:06 am

I do love how now a days anyone who even hints at the Amityville House being possibly haunted is right away considered a quack, yet when the owners past and present (except of course the Lutzes) say the house was never haunted their claims are accepted at face value. :roll:
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Exsecratio
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by Exsecratio » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:42 am

Thing is AR, I believe it was Carl Sagan who said "Huge claims require huge evidence"

In effect it's down to those making claims of haunting to provide positive evidence rather than those who claim is isn't to provide negative evidence.

Think of it like somebody saying "The sky is blue" compared to somebody who says "The sky is polka dot", so much these days gets called theory...in reality most of that isn't theory it's conjecture, speculation, opinion or possibly even mental illness. To even meet the criteria of Theory the proposal has to meet a minimum standard, is it testable? is it refutable? any proposal that doesn't match either of these isn't a theory and will never be one.

For example... "I think there are little purple rhinos on Pluto who are all totally invisible to all human observation methods".

1: We cannot reach Pluto at the current time not refutable
2: Something invisible cannot be measured so not testable

Leaving the statement forever as opinion or proposal until such time as it meets both criteria.

Another issue is what is sometimes offered as proof, negative positives are a big problem. The purple Rhino's on Pluto are all invisible so when we eventually get there we won't be able to see them...thus this proves there are invisible purple Rhino's there.

The number of logical fallacies that abound in the supernatural world are astounding....Brian Dunning has done some very interesting work on them over the years.

Below is one of his offerings reprinted complete.

The below is Copyright B Dunning:
If you've ever had a conversation with anyone about their supernatural or pseudoscientific beliefs, you've almost certainly been slapped in the face with a logical fallacy or two. Non-scientific belief systems cannot be defended or supported by the scientific method, by definition, and so their advocates turn elsewhere for their support. In this episode, we're going to examine a whole bunch of the most common logical fallacies that you hear in reference to various pseudosciences. When you hear one that you recognize, be sure to wave and say hello.

Let's begin with:

The Straw Man Argument

We're starting with this one because it's the most common and also one of the easiest to spot. This is where you state your position, and your opponent replies not to what you said, but to an exaggerated and distorted caricature of what you said that's obviously harder to defend.

Starling says: "People who commit minor offenses should be let out of jail sooner."
Bombo replies: "Emptying out all the jails would create havoc in society."

Well, maybe Bombo's right, but that's not relevant, because "emptying the jails" is not what Starling advocated. In fact Bombo did not refute Starling's point at all — he invented a different point that was easier to argue against. He created a straw man — one of those dummies stuffed with straw that soldiers use for bayonet practice. It's too weak to fight back. And Bombo can then take satisfaction in having made a point that no reasonable person would argue with, and he appears to have successfully defeated Starling's argument, when in fact he dodged it.

Ad Hominem

From the latin for "to the person", an ad hominem is an attack against the arguer rather than the argument. This doesn't mean that you simply call the person a jerk; rather, it means that you use some weakness or characteristic of the arguer to imply a weakness of the argument.

Starling: "I think Volvos are fine automobiles."
Bombo: "Of course you'd say that; you're from Sweden."

Starling's Swedish heritage has nothing to do with the quality of Volvo automobiles, so Bombo's is an attempt to change the subject and is an avoidance of the issue at hand. Bombo is trying to imply that Starling's Swedish heritage biases, and thus invalidates, his statement. In fact, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Ad hominem arguments try to point out fault with the arguer, instead of with the argument.

Appeal to Authority

This type of argument refers to a special authoritative source as validation for the claim being made. Every time you see an advertisement featuring someone wearing a white lab coat, or telling you what 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed said, you're seeing an appeal to authority.

"Acupuncture is valid because it's based on centuries-old Chinese knowledge."
"This article in a peer-reviewed scientific journal says that people are getting fatter."
"A growing number of scientists say that evolution is too improbable."
"Wired Magazine says that Skeptoid is an awesome podcast."

An appeal to authority is the opposite of an ad hominem attack, because here we are referring to some positive characteristic of the source, such as its perceived authority, as support for the argument. But a good authority supports a position because that position has been shown to be otherwise justified or evidenced, not the other way around. If you say that scientists support Theory X, are those scientists claiming that Theory X is true because they believe it? No, good scientists attach no significance at all to their own authority. Theory X needs to stand on its own; an appeal to authority does not provide any useful support.

Special Pleading

An argument by special pleading states that the justification for some claim is on a higher level of knowledge than your opponent can comprehend, and thus he is not qualified to argue against it. The most common case of special pleading refers to God's will, stating that we are not qualified to understand his reasons for doing whatever he does. Special pleadings grant a sort of get-out-of-jail-free exemption to whatever higher power lies behind a claim:

Starling: "Homeopathy should be tested with clinical trials."
Bombo: "Clinical trials are not adequate to test the true nature of homeopathy."

No matter what Starling says, Bombo can claim that there is knowledge outside of Starling's experience or at a level that Starling cannot comprehend, and the argument is therefore ended. Bombo might also point out that Starling lacks some professional qualification to discuss the topic, thus placing the topic out of Starling's reach.

Bombo: "You're not a trained homeopath, so you shouldn't be expected to understand it."

A special pleading makes no attempt to address the opponent's point, it is just another diversionary tactic.

Anecdotal Evidence

One of the most common ways to support just about any non-evidence based phenomenon is through the fallacious misuse of anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is information that cannot be tested scientifically. In practice this usually refers to personal testimonials and verbal reports. Anecdotal evidence often sounds compelling because it can be more personal and captivating than cold, uninteresting factual evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is not completely useless. You could say "We saw the Bigfoot corpse at such a location", and if that information helps with the recovery of an actual body, then the anecdotal evidence was of tremendous value. But, note that it's the Bigfoot corpse itself that comprises scientific evidence, not the story of where it was seen.

"I know for a fact that ghosts exist. My friend, who is a very reliable person, has seen ghosts on many occasions."

Anecdotal evidence is great for suggesting new directions in research, but by itself it is not evidence. When it is presented as evidence or in place of evidence, you have very good reason to be skeptical.

Observational Selection

Observational selection is the process of keeping the sample of data that agrees with your premise, and ignoring the sample of data that does not. Observational selection is the fallacy behind such phenomena as the Bible Code, psychic readings, the Global Consciousness Project, and faith healing. Observational selection is also a tool used by pollsters to produce desired survey results, by surveying only people who are predisposed to answer the poll the way the pollster wants.

Bombo: "The face of Satan is clearly visible in the smoke billowing from the World Trade Center."
Starling: "And in one of the other 950,000 frames of film, the smoke looks like J. Edgar Hoover; in another, it looks like a Windows XP icon; and in another it looks like a map of Paris."

Remember that one out of every million samples of anything is an incredible one-in-a-million rarity. This is a mere inevitability, but if observational selection compels you to ignore the other 999,999 samples, you're very easily impressed.

Appeal to Ignorance

Argumentum ad ignorantiam considers ignorance of something to be evidence that it does not exist. If I do not understand the mechanism of the Big Bang, that proves that there is no knowledge that supports it as a possibility and it therefore did not happen. Anything that is insufficiently explained or insufficiently understood is thus impossible.

Starling: "It is amazing that life arose through the fortuitous formation of amino acids in the primordial goo."
Bombo: "A little too amazing. I can't imagine how such a thing could happen; creationism is the only possibility."

Using the absence of evidence as evidence of absence is a common appeal to ignorance. People who believe the Phoenix Lights could not have been simple flares generally don't understand, or won't listen to, the thorough evidence of that. Their glib layman's understanding of what a flare might look like is inconsistent with their interpretation of the photographs, so they use an appeal to ignorance as proof that flares were not the cause.

Non-Sequitur

From the Latin for "It does not follow", a non-sequitur is an obvious and stupid attempt to justify one claim using an irrelevant premise. Non-sequiturs work by starting with a reasonable sounding premise that it's hoped you will agree with, and attaching it (like a rider to a bill in Congress) to a conclusion that has nothing to do with it. The sentence is phrased in such a way to make it sound like you have to accept both or neither:

"Corporations are evil, thus acupuncture is good."
"The government is evil, thus UFOs are alien spacecraft."
"Allah is great, thus all Christians should be killed."

When we do science, it takes more than simply connecting two phrases with the word "thus" to draw a valid relationship. Thus, non-sequiturs are not valid devices to prove a point scientifically.

Post Hoc

The idea that some event must have been caused by a given earlier event, simply because it happened later, is post hoc ergo propter hoc — "It happened later so it was caused by". The assumption of cause and effect is the type of pattern that our brains are hardwired to find, and so we find them everywhere. He took a homeopathic remedy, and his cancer was cured — one happened after the other, and so the faulty assumption is that the homeopathy caused the remission.

Tip Skeptoid $2/mo $5/mo $10/mo One time
Starling: "I bought this car from you, and the heater is broken."
Bombo: "It worked before you bought it, so you must have broken it yourself."

Bombo sees that the breakage happened after Starling made the purchase, so he assumes that one caused the other. In fact there are no grounds for such a correlation. Combined with observational selection, faulty post hoc assumptions account almost entirely for the proliferation of alternative therapies and widespread belief in psychic powers.

Confusion of Correlation and Causation

Closely related to post hoc, but a little bit different, is the confusion of correlation and causation. Post hoc assumptions do not necessarily include any correlation between the two observations. When there is a correlation, but still no valid causation, we have a more convincing confusion.

Starling: "Chinese people eat a lot of rice."
Bombo: "Therefore the consumption of rice must cause black hair."

Due to the nature of Chinese agriculture, there is indeed a worldwide correlation between rice consumption and hair color. This is a perfect example of how causation can be invalidly inferred from a simple correlation.

Slippery Slope

A slippery slope argument presumes that some change will inevitably result in extreme exaggerated consequences. If I give you a cookie now, you'll expect a cookie every five minutes, so I shouldn't give you a cookie.

Starling: "It should be illegal to sell alternative therapies that don't work."
Bombo: "If that happened, any minority group could make it illegal to sell anything they don't happen to like."

No matter what Starling suggests, multiplying it by ten or a hundred is probably a poor proposition. Bombo can use a slippery slope argument to exaggerate any suggestion Starling makes into a recipe for disaster.

The slippery slope is probably the most common subset of the larger fallacy, argument from adverse consequences, which is the practice of inventing almost any dire consequences to your opponent's argument:

Starling: "They should remove 'Under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance."
Bombo: "If that happened, all hell would break loose. Students would have sex in the hallways, school shootings would skyrocket, and we would become a nation of Satan worshippers."

That's enough for one day. Any more than this at one sitting would turn anyone into a quivering lump of irrational jelly, just like the one that first took shape in the primordial goo.

Amityville Rock
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by Amityville Rock » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:07 pm

I'm not suggesting we should believe every claim out of hand, rather I was noting the current attitude of disrespect towards paranormal subject matter on this board. At one time, not that many years ago, this forum was more fair minded. Currently however the least mention of spirits is ridiculed by all but a brave few.
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jimmysmokes
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:40 pm

Amityville Rock wrote:I'm not suggesting we should believe every claim out of hand, rather I was noting the current attitude of disrespect towards paranormal subject matter on this board. At one time, not that many years ago, this forum was more fair minded. Currently however the least mention of spirits is ridiculed by all but a brave few.
no one is disrespecting you or the paranormal world. but it sounds like you're having doubts? do continue to believe if it makes you feel better.

Exsecratio
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by Exsecratio » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:42 pm

Possibly the number of claims surrounding 112 that has done it? I think in general (and this is just my own opinion) that many of the "Ghost Hunting" shows on TV etc haven't helped. Over here we had that clearly crazy woman Evette Fielding ranting on all sorts of BS on what amounted to a very popular show (Most Haunted) despite evidence from her own staff that the entire show was based on BS.

On the front of one of our national newspapers just today was a story about the "Black eyed kids" having been photographed and shown glowing in the dark (on a nice photo shopped background) so I think the public has become numb to all the hype and the genuine interest has waned, as you quite rightly say, to a point of "assume the worst".

Even to the current topic of James's book...a big black hole that worked like an electrolux refrigerator without the remotest piece of evidence or supporting documentation other than "I'm saying this happened"...trouble is we can all *say* any number of things or even believe any number of things but without some kind...any kind...the remotest bit of evidence to support it.

I tend to look at it by asking myself...does the person offering the information have anything to gain? if the answer is yes then straight away we have reason to remain skeptical ;)

Oh..my personal belief? I know Christopher well and trust him absolutely, he tells me things happened in 112 I believe him, do I then believe some of the others who have suddenly come along since and tried to join the gravy train?? well, it's a whole lot less likely put it that way.

(in the spirit of open ness keep in mind I make models for retail sale of 112 so I'm not above profiting from the interest it generates)

daiichi
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by daiichi » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:47 am

So you're telling me he found a cold draft -- in the basement -- of an old house in New England? Get this man a book deal and Hollywood movie adaption!

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Ayko
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Re: real estate agent witnessed a black hole/cold at the hou

Post by Ayko » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:17 am

:horrormovie:
Show off.
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