There is NO proof of a haunting

General Discussion About Anything Amityville And Other Paranormal Topics
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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:38 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:26 pm
daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am
  • George and Kathy Lutz liked the Amityville house and the neighborhood, and thought it'd be "cool" to live in a house with such a sordid history.
...what? :P
  • Even though they didn't have much money, they figured that they could buy the house at a discount and make it work out somehow.
...yep.
  • They soon realized that the mortgage and boat payments were too much and they got cold feet. This happens to a lot of couples when they buy a house they can't afford.
Speculation.
  • George's land surveying business wasn't doing well, hence why he sat around the house all day, brooding in front of the fireplace and randomly checking the boat (bored and nothing to do).
...Speculation!
  • They came up with the idea, along with DeFeo's lawyer, to concoct a BS story about a haunting (using elements of the Exorcist and other popular pop culture inspirations from the 1970s).
If so, why would they turned down all interviews beyond the initial press conference? The story they "created" was just getting hot!
  • Claimed they called the police, but public records PROVE that this never happened.
I don't think anyone checked the records back then. The police told Kaplan they never visited, but was that an attempt to stop the hype surrounding the story?
  • Quietly walked away from their mortgage (didn't flee in the middle of the night)
What about giving up the house and their possessions?
  • Moved far away to avoid George's creditors. Or, as they'd like you to believe, because the ghosties followed them :think:
Speculation!
And come on people... ghosts AREN'T REAL.
Ah, I see where you're coming from now :P
Lol, here we go again.

They turned down the interviews because they quietly walked away (breach of contract with Weber) for a new publisher & author. Thus trying to avoid any subsequent legal entanglements while high-tailing it to the west coast and disappearing so to speak. Obviously Weber eventually caught on and we know what that spurred. They did indeed give up the house, well it was repossessed by the bank. Not the mere speculation that Dan has on here (faq's/note pg) that they made payments up until Jun 76 :lol: and it's yet to be taken down and corrected? Oh yeah, you can here Laura Didio talk about it in the classic My Amityville Horror.

And what about their possessions they "left" behind? Are you forgetting that friends of George's went back the very next day and picked up some of those possessions? That's right people! Seems the Lutzes did retrieve a few items back from the house and left other junk they didn't want. Which leaves some of us wondering, how did these people go into that house the day after the family fled in terror and make it out just fine with no supernatural phenomenon occurring? Ahh yes it was just a coincidence. No wait, what am I saying? Sorry guys I forgot. The ghosties left the house when the Lutzes did and followed them that's why there were no ghosts!

Wait a minute here. :think: If the ghosts did exit the house and torment the Lutzes after they fled then why would it concern George & Kathy who ended up having the house? In other words they didn't want to be responsible for passing it on to unknowing buyers. But since the house was repossessed, George & Kathy had nothing to do with the house "passing" on to others. And why would George be concerned for others safety in that house? ANSWER- because it made it look like something indeed took place in the house.

But it all worked out well for everyone! Families came and went with no trouble while in the house and TAH went onto becoming the most celebrated haunted house of all time. :clap: And the Lutzes made some nice dough off of it and we still get new stories from time to time from family members.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:19 am

jimmysmokes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:38 pm
They turned down the interviews because they quietly walked away (breach of contract with Weber) for a new publisher & author. Thus trying to avoid any subsequent legal entanglements while high-tailing it to the west coast and disappearing so to speak.
I can see there's some logic in that... but there was no contract breach as they never signed one.

If they were just in it to hype up a book, there was nothing to stop them breaking away from Weber in public, and doing their own publicity there and then.
And what about their possessions they "left" behind? Are you forgetting that friends of George's went back the very next day and picked up some of those possessions?
It was never "the next day" - as everything was still there when the Warren's had their night there around two months later.

And anyway, the two friends only took a ceder trunk, with instructions not to stay too long, etc.

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Amit Y Ville
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Amit Y Ville » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:15 am

Gotta ask yourself why someone would want to post on an Amityville forum if they truly believe it's a hoax in a desperate, anxious attempt to convince me and others.

It's either they're unemployed or there's some degree of mental illness there wanting them to do this. Perhaps both!
Had to have high, high hopes for a living - Panic! At The Disco

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:48 am

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:15 am
Gotta ask yourself why someone would want to post on an Amityville forum if they truly believe it's a hoax in a desperate, anxious attempt to convince me and others.

It's either they're unemployed or there's some degree of mental illness there wanting them to do this. Perhaps both!
That's pretty harsh! But it's all good. And I assure you that I'm gainfully employed and I keep myself pretty busy with life obligations. On the other hand... I CAN'T assure you that I'm mentally healthy, but that's neither here nor there. :breakdance: I just think the backstory of the Amityville case and the people involved are really interesting! I like True Crime and stuff like that, and even though I don't believe it, I enjoy a good ghost story.

And you know, I'm not here to judge anyone. I enjoy reading everyone's posts. But in my opinion, grown adults believing in ghosts and haunted houses definitely places them somewhere on the spectrum of "mental illness". But there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. I've spent enough time in this world to conclude that we're all a little crazy, but that's what makes things interesting.

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:59 am

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:26 pm
daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am
  • George and Kathy Lutz liked the Amityville house and the neighborhood, and thought it'd be "cool" to live in a house with such a sordid history.
...what? :P
Hi, thanks for your feedback! I haven't been in the game for awhile so I'll need dive in to my Amityville research again before I can circle back to your other points. I just remember doing some in-depth research of Amityville a few years ago and came to my conclusions about the Lutz family falling in love with the house and buying it, but quickly realizing that George's business was a wreck and they wouldn't be able to afford it. Oh, to be a fly on the wall of that house... they did have a lot of flies. Sadly none of them are alive and able to come on this forum to give us the full scoop. I once had a lot of flies in my house. But it was because I accidentally left a bag of trash in the garage for a couple weeks during the summer. Not ghosts.

But to make a long story short, those were all my conclusions. I could have specifics wrong here and there, because ultimately none of us know the details of The Lutz family finances or when precisely they came up with some of their ideas. But to the quoted point above, I would say that there are a lot of people who wouldn't mind living in a house where a grisly crime occurred, especially if it's in an otherwise good neighborhood and it was a domestic dispute. If I could get a good deal on the Amityville house, I'd happily buy it and move right in. It looks like a beautiful house. The one thing that would give me pause for thought would be the curiosity seekers that would occasionally knock on the door or look in the windows. That might get irritating.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:41 pm

daiichi wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:59 am
But to the quoted point above, I would say that there are a lot of people who wouldn't mind living in a house where a grisly crime occurred
They were obviously OK with it, but I've never heard anyone suggest they thought it was "cool" to live there before :)

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:44 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:19 am
jimmysmokes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:38 pm
They turned down the interviews because they quietly walked away (breach of contract with Weber) for a new publisher & author. Thus trying to avoid any subsequent legal entanglements while high-tailing it to the west coast and disappearing so to speak.
I can see there's some logic in that... but there was no contract breach as they never signed one.

If they were just in it to hype up a book, there was nothing to stop them breaking away from Weber in public, and doing their own publicity there and then.
And what about their possessions they "left" behind? Are you forgetting that friends of George's went back the very next day and picked up some of those possessions?
It was never "the next day" - as everything was still there when the Warren's had their night there around two months later.

And anyway, the two friends only took a ceder trunk, with instructions not to stay too long, etc.
They were countersued for breach of contract by Weber. Regardless of them not signing the contract, when the judge threw out the Lutzes lawsuit and allowed Weber's to continue, they must have thought they were going to get hit bigtime and settled out of court. It's baffling to me why they sued in the first place? Just opened up a mess of legal trouble.

Yeah, they left beds and furniture and food behind. Those items can easily be replaced. So as far those things being left behind and untouched (when the investigators came in) doesn't really suggest much of anything. And when did these two friends come and remove the trunk? I believe it was more than that.

Other than what I suggested here, why didn't they do publicity then at that time?

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:59 am

jimmysmokes wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:44 pm
They were countersued for breach of contract by Weber.
Yeah, because Weber retro-fitted this idea they had stolen it all from him. If true, he would have sued as soon as the Jay Anson book was announced, not after.
Regardless of them not signing the contract, when the judge threw out the Lutzes lawsuit and allowed Weber's to continue, they must have thought they were going to get hit bigtime and settled out of court.
They settled out of court when the Weber suit was progressing. Weber offered to settle.
It's baffling to me why they sued in the first place? Just opened up a mess of legal trouble.
The TAH publisher Prentice Hall made them sue Weber, to stop him selling the story before the book was even published. They made that decision after The Good Housekeeping article (which ironically was a great primer for the book)
Other than what I suggested here, why didn't they do publicity then at that time?
Because they didn't want any?

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Amit Y Ville
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Amit Y Ville » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:24 am

We need to change his name to JimmysmokeD, the amount of times he got roasted by Sherb. :P
Had to have high, high hopes for a living - Panic! At The Disco

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:30 am

And when did these two friends come and remove the trunk? I believe it was more than that.
A quote from George -
A couple of friends went back into the house and got the food and the clothes and gave those to the Salvation Army, and brought out the chest for us with some personal items. But that's the only things we took from the house.
Here's a passage from the abortive haunting-friendly book Ric Osuna was writing before he shacked up with Geraldine...
After consulting with Father Ray, [the Lutzes] asked a few of their closest friends to enter the house and prepare what they could for the Salvation Army. "They were warned by Father Ray that the only time they could enter the house was during Holy Week and only while it was daylight," recalls George. "They were also to say a special prayer prior to entering the house and stay no longer than one hour." During the time they were there, a special mass was being said by Father Ray.

Doug Capra, knew George Lutz for at least six years prior to moving in to the house in Amityville. Once Capra arrived at the house in Amityville, he went right to work.

At around noon George's other friend, Benny, arrived to help. After already staying longer than they were supposed to, Capra and Benny carried out a cedar chest -- the only thing the Lutzes were allowed by Fr. Ray to reclaim. During the hour Benny was there, his girlfriend stayed in the car refusing to go in the house. However, she eventually wandered into the garage where the two men had been checking on George's speed boat. "I was told she complained about feeling uneasy and returned to the car," says George. "A week later she was arrested for murdering Benny."
So around Easter '76?

He's wrong about Benny dying just a week later - he disappeared a few weeks later, and his body turned a few weeks after that.

His girlfriend didn't kill him herself, she got some local hoodlums to do it. And she had already planned this before sitting in the driveway of 112, before you accuse me of saying the house made her do it :P

More on the story here -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5331

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:57 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:59 am
jimmysmokes wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:44 pm
They were countersued for breach of contract by Weber.
Yeah, because Weber retro-fitted this idea they had stolen it all from him. If true, he would have sued as soon as the Jay Anson book was announced, not after.
Regardless of them not signing the contract, when the judge threw out the Lutzes lawsuit and allowed Weber's to continue, they must have thought they were going to get hit bigtime and settled out of court.
They settled out of court when the Weber suit was progressing. Weber offered to settle.
It's baffling to me why they sued in the first place? Just opened up a mess of legal trouble.
The TAH publisher Prentice Hall made them sue Weber, to stop him selling the story before the book was even published. They made that decision after The Good Housekeeping article (which ironically was a great primer for the book)
Other than what I suggested here, why didn't they do publicity then at that time?
Because they didn't want any?
Why didn't Prentice Hall sue Weber themselves, it was Ansons book? Is that like the Weber conference they had to attend? So Weber had TAH story before the book came out? :P So The Lutzes did steal the idea from him! You just admitted it.

A great primer for the book- yeah I agree. A little lawsuit to drum up interest and future sales for the product to be sold.

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:02 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:30 am
And when did these two friends come and remove the trunk? I believe it was more than that.
A quote from George -
A couple of friends went back into the house and got the food and the clothes and gave those to the Salvation Army, and brought out the chest for us with some personal items. But that's the only things we took from the house.
Here's a passage from the abortive haunting-friendly book Ric Osuna was writing before he shacked up with Geraldine...
After consulting with Father Ray, [the Lutzes] asked a few of their closest friends to enter the house and prepare what they could for the Salvation Army. "They were warned by Father Ray that the only time they could enter the house was during Holy Week and only while it was daylight," recalls George. "They were also to say a special prayer prior to entering the house and stay no longer than one hour." During the time they were there, a special mass was being said by Father Ray.

Doug Capra, knew George Lutz for at least six years prior to moving in to the house in Amityville. Once Capra arrived at the house in Amityville, he went right to work.

At around noon George's other friend, Benny, arrived to help. After already staying longer than they were supposed to, Capra and Benny carried out a cedar chest -- the only thing the Lutzes were allowed by Fr. Ray to reclaim. During the hour Benny was there, his girlfriend stayed in the car refusing to go in the house. However, she eventually wandered into the garage where the two men had been checking on George's speed boat. "I was told she complained about feeling uneasy and returned to the car," says George. "A week later she was arrested for murdering Benny."
So around Easter '76?

He's wrong about Benny dying just a week later - he disappeared a few weeks later, and his body turned a few weeks after that.

His girlfriend didn't kill him herself, she got some local hoodlums to do it. And she had already planned this before sitting in the driveway of 112, before you accuse me of saying the house made her do it :P

More on the story here -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5331
Ahh, you're quoting Osuna now huh? :lol: And this piece with Fr. Ray I find absurd. What would have happened if they had stayed for two hours lol? This is George at his funniest! Come on sherbetto you can't buy this man?

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:03 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:57 pm
Why didn't Prentice Hall sue Weber themselves
Because there was no contract signed at that point. Not sure why... maybe as it was Anson's first book they wanted to see it finished first? Either way, Prentice Hall said they wouldn't take it on if other versions kept appearing.
So Weber had TAH story before the book came out?
Of course he did. How else would have Paul Hoffman written the New York Sunday News and Good Housekeeping articles that lead to the lawsuit?

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Dan the Damned
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Dan the Damned » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:26 pm

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:15 am
Gotta ask yourself why someone would want to post on an Amityville forum if they truly believe it's a hoax in a desperate, anxious attempt to convince me and others.

It's either they're unemployed or there's some degree of mental illness there wanting them to do this. Perhaps both!
More evidence of you trolling people. You complain when it happens to you, but you dish it out to others just the same. Pretty hypocritical.

You seem to think that this board is ONLY for those who believe in the haunting. Nothing could be further from the truth. If that were the case, we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have in understanding what actually happened on Ocean Avenue in the mid-70s.

shane2801
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by shane2801 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:32 am

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:24 am
We need to change his name to JimmysmokeD, the amount of times he got roasted by Sherb. :P
Dan's just done a pretty good job smoking you also.

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Amit Y Ville
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Amit Y Ville » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:35 am

Dan the Damned wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:26 pm
Amit Y Ville wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:15 am
Gotta ask yourself why someone would want to post on an Amityville forum if they truly believe it's a hoax in a desperate, anxious attempt to convince me and others.

It's either they're unemployed or there's some degree of mental illness there wanting them to do this. Perhaps both!
More evidence of you trolling people. You complain when it happens to you, but you dish it out to others just the same. Pretty hypocritical.

You seem to think that this board is ONLY for those who believe in the haunting. Nothing could be further from the truth. If that were the case, we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have in understanding what actually happened on Ocean Avenue in the mid-70s.
By complaint you meant me reporting others breaking the rules, on your own forum? Before you clarified there kinda are no rules on this forum at all.

It's not really my issue if you're allowing others to use words like "retard", "asshat" to debate. Let's not forget the constant abuse TC1 gets about his Alison Defeo haunting. Again, you did nothing. You're protected by the fact the subject matter is very niche and has a dedicated audience like myself, but this forum looks like garbage to newcomers because of the toxic members of this community you blindly protect.

And there are those that can debate no truth in the Amityville haunting without using said insults. No issue with that, again not my issue. However no one has proven it, and once said insults are used instead of logic, pro-haunting wins.
Had to have high, high hopes for a living - Panic! At The Disco

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Matt9290
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Matt9290 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:01 am

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:35 am
Dan the Damned wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:26 pm
Amit Y Ville wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:15 am
Gotta ask yourself why someone would want to post on an Amityville forum if they truly believe it's a hoax in a desperate, anxious attempt to convince me and others.

It's either they're unemployed or there's some degree of mental illness there wanting them to do this. Perhaps both!
More evidence of you trolling people. You complain when it happens to you, but you dish it out to others just the same. Pretty hypocritical.

You seem to think that this board is ONLY for those who believe in the haunting. Nothing could be further from the truth. If that were the case, we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have in understanding what actually happened on Ocean Avenue in the mid-70s.
By complaint you meant me reporting others breaking the rules, on your own forum? Before you clarified there kinda are no rules on this forum at all.

It's not really my issue if you're allowing others to use words like "retard", "asshat" to debate. Let's not forget the constant abuse TC1 gets about his Alison Defeo haunting. You're protected by the fact the subject matter is very niche and has a dedicated audience like myself, but this forum looks like garbage to newcomers because of the toxic members of this community you blindly protect
Ironically you are one of the most toxic member! You attack anyone who disagrees with you... You never put forward a counter argument, but simply resort name calling and accuse people of being trolls. Your research and arguments are none existent and quite frankly you just annoy most people on here.
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

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Matt9290
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Matt9290 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:08 am

No offence intended.... :shock:
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:55 am

I think we can all have a healthy back-and-fourth debate on the merit of George and Kathy's claims about 112 Ocean Ave, and also keep things civil. I've followed this story for a very long time and have had years to rationally break down most of it, and I present that here for anyone who's interested. I'm definitely more of a skeptic, I'm not going to deny that.

I'm pretty skeptical about anything paranormal in nature, especially now that we live in an age where everyone has a high end digital camera in their pockets and we STILL don't have any convincing photographic evidence of ghostly apparitions. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch.

But there are plenty of people who believe it or they want to believe, and that's fine. I think we can disagree without calling each other names. All I ask is that everyone bring forth counter-arguments for WHY they believe the way they do, instead of simply dismissing other posters or insulting their intelligence. :D

TC1
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by TC1 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:07 pm

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:35 am
Let's not forget the constant abuse TC1 gets about his Allison DeFeo haunting. Again, you did nothing.
You don't really have to worry about me, because trolls don't really bother me anymore and I know that they have nothing else better to do so it's pretty laughable when they waste their time trying to put me down, and Dan has done some things like deleted particularly bad replies on that topic before.
I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. Sherb and Dan, check your PMs. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. Sherb and Dan, check your PMs. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. Sherb and Dan, check your PMs. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. Sherb and Dan, check your PMs. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. Sherb and Dan, check your PMs.

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:06 pm

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:35 am
Dan the Damned wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:26 pm
Amit Y Ville wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:15 am
Gotta ask yourself why someone would want to post on an Amityville forum if they truly believe it's a hoax in a desperate, anxious attempt to convince me and others.

It's either they're unemployed or there's some degree of mental illness there wanting them to do this. Perhaps both!
More evidence of you trolling people. You complain when it happens to you, but you dish it out to others just the same. Pretty hypocritical.

You seem to think that this board is ONLY for those who believe in the haunting. Nothing could be further from the truth. If that were the case, we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have in understanding what actually happened on Ocean Avenue in the mid-70s.
By complaint you meant me reporting others breaking the rules, on your own forum? Before you clarified there kinda are no rules on this forum at all.

It's not really my issue if you're allowing others to use words like "retard", "asshat" to debate. Let's not forget the constant abuse TC1 gets about his Alison Defeo haunting. Again, you did nothing. You're protected by the fact the subject matter is very niche and has a dedicated audience like myself, but this forum looks like garbage to newcomers because of the toxic members of this community you blindly protect.

And there are those that can debate no truth in the Amityville haunting without using said insults. No issue with that, again not my issue. However no one has proven it, and once said insults are used instead of logic, pro-haunting wins.
:clap: If it's not really an "issue" (as you quote here twice) then what are you whining about?

"and has a dedicated audience like myself"? Yes, you, yourself & I, an impressive audience to say the least.

I would agree with you on your comment that newcomers would see garbage on here. If they stumble onto your posts first, yes, toxic garbage they would get. And sadly it is protected!

Pro-haunting wins out because insults are used instead of logic? :think: Tell me, is it more logical to believe that a demonic pig flies around a house or to claim that this is an insult to human intelligence (skepticism)?

And if you don't like it in here, the door is open to exit the premises at anytime. If you choose to stay, do so at your own risk! Good forum rules to live by...

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