There is NO proof of a haunting

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:24 am
Maybe the topic name should be changed or split into another, it's been derailed. Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum does not fit into the topic of one person denying the whole case and Dan having to explain everything. :fp:
Done!

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Dan the Damned
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Dan the Damned » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:01 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:53 pm
We showed that Weber and Kaplan, along with Danny & Chris brought forth the hoax proof as well as some debunking for us all.
There is no "hoax proof." The people you mentioned offered claims and theories. None of which have proven the haunting to be a hoax.

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jimmysmokes
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:09 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:24 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:53 pm
We have the books The Amityville Horror II and Amityville The Final Chapter for "documents".

I once in here pinned sherbetto down on this question and got him to admit that the claims in these subsequent books were "pretty much cash-ins"!
I wouldn't use the term "cash-in", but as John G Jones was told to avoid using real names and places (so no lawsuits, unlike the previous book) he went overboard with the fiction, so it's in no way a good account of what happened post-112.

George described these events of having a "half-life" - ie half as strong as in 112. And Christopher remembered way more incidents occurring during this period than he did in Amityville, saying something like, "we were only in that house for a month, but it followed us for years."

But as Dan says, this period has been woefully under-documented.

And you don't need to "pin" us down on anything to get answer! Too much smoke = paranoia? :lol:
Well you told me that man! and too much ass kissing makes for a fume to keep one in a fog! There was no incidents so lets admit defeat and you do the walk of shame.

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:13 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:01 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:53 pm
We showed that Weber and Kaplan, along with Danny & Chris brought forth the hoax proof as well as some debunking for us all.
There is no "hoax proof." The people you mentioned offered claims and theories. None of which have proven the haunting to be a hoax.
Much hoax proof buddy! You got an education in here. You can now add Danny's in famous call to Kaplan since you now know who it was. :doh: Please add to your FAQ page now you know its true! :rotate:

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Dan the Damned » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:46 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:56 pm
I want to add this here for you all. Might help some of you? Maybe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

My Oh My! Where have I heard these claims before?
Gee, where have we heard this before?

Oh, I know! We've heard it in this thread: Sleep Paralysis?

And it was mentioned in this thread: Explaining it all

And it was also mentioned in this thread: Ghostly Rape

And mentioned over here in this thread: Have you experienced any hauntings yourself?

And again mentioned in this thread: Your own horror

And once again mentioned in this other thread: Why are you SO sure?..

And for good measure, we've also talked about it here: Something rarely, if ever, mentioned

And here's yet another one from 3 years ago. You even participated in this thread, remember?: She hears voices in her head...

Again, you have brought forth nothing new. Yawn.


jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:13 pm
Much hoax proof buddy! You got an education in here.
"Proof" would be "beyond the shadow of a doubt." No one has provided proof of a hoax. Just claims and theories and conjecture.

An education? That's a laugh. All you've done is regurgitate the same old stuff that we've been talking about on this forum for years. Perhaps I didn't know about Chris backing up the claim that Danny called Kaplan on the phone, but that doesn't prove anything. I don't think Kaplan is necessarily a liar. I just think he jumps to conclusions way too easily and fails to use his critical thinking skills, possibly blinded by a grudge he held against George for cancelling his big investigation.

But everything else you've posted has been mentioned on this forum over the years ad nauseam. You don't even bother reading the older threads, do you? You should read more and talk less. Way less...

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Amit Y Ville
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Amit Y Ville » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:00 am

jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:17 pm
sherbetbizarre wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:45 pm
Amit Y Ville wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:24 am
Maybe the topic name should be changed or split into another, it's been derailed. Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum does not fit into the topic of one person denying the whole case and Dan having to explain everything. :fp:
Done!
We're real sorry for amit y ville because he posts sh!t threads here and cant anyone to talk to him. :2guns:
But good news is on the way for him! New Amityville movie coming out entitled "Amityville Sucker".
Why don't you go have lick
Maybe if this person started listening to Dan and spending less time breaking the forum rules he would actually learn something. :fp:
Had to have high, high hopes for a living - Panic! At The Disco

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:02 am

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:00 am
Maybe if this person started listening to Dan and spending less time breaking the forum rules he would actually learn something. :fp:
But then he wouldn't be the Jimmy we know and love!

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Brendan72
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Brendan72 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:48 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:46 pm
Gee, where have we heard this before?

Oh, I know! We've heard it in this thread: Sleep Paralysis?

And it was mentioned in this thread: Explaining it all

And it was also mentioned in this thread: Ghostly Rape

And mentioned over here in this thread: Have you experienced any hauntings yourself?

And again mentioned in this thread: Your own horror

And once again mentioned in this other thread: Why are you SO sure?..

And for good measure, we've also talked about it here: Something rarely, if ever, mentioned

And here's yet another one from 3 years ago. You even participated in this thread, remember?: She hears voices in her head...

Again, you have brought forth nothing new. Yawn.
After scrolling past the multiple quotes to get to the actual response (of the response responding to the response) has made me realised is there actually anything further to add to the whole Amityville discussion? Maybe it has run its course (for one person at least).

I am reminded of a plane flying on an empty tank having run out of fuel years ago and now only flying on fumes, long overdue to pick a runway and forever park in a hangar.
- Brendan72

"Facts don't care for your feelings."
- Ben Shapiro

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jimmysmokes
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:30 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:02 am
Amit Y Ville wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:00 am
Maybe if this person started listening to Dan and spending less time breaking the forum rules he would actually learn something. :fp:
But then he wouldn't be the Jimmy we know and love!
Listen to what? Paint dry? I already showed him it’s debunked and by Dan and Chris themselves. Dan can’t stand that the story is a hoax! His personal feelings for George overtake his common sense. I no it’s hard but it’s time to give it up

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Dan the Damned
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Dan the Damned » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:51 am

If you want to believe that, fine. But the fact remains that this case has not been debunked. You can claim otherwise until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't make it true.

Sure, there might be discrepancies here and there. There might be unsubstantiated claims of a hoax. There might be fictional elements added to the story by others. But there is no concrete proof that an outright hoax has been committed.

Dan and Chris both say that the haunting really happened. They have some issues with certain things, but they have both said time and again that the haunting was real. You choose to overlook that very important aspect. Funny, that...

As for me -- I kinda wish the haunting WAS a hoax. Then I would have a definite answer one way or the other.

The realization that this case has not been debunked commits me to a life sentence of uncertainty; of wondering whether or not these things really happened. Waiting for an answer that I know will never come. Kinda like waiting for the Seattle Mariners or Washington Nationals to win the World Series...

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Amit Y Ville
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Amit Y Ville » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:41 pm

Thing is, Jimmy is fake. He's as fake as the hoax he's accusing the Lutz's made. No one can be that dumb.
Had to have high, high hopes for a living - Panic! At The Disco

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am

After all these years, I come back to visit and there are STILL people who believe this hoax. Wow! Even after it has been thoroughly debunked. Here's a refresher course of what REALLY happened:
  • George and Kathy Lutz liked the Amityville house and the neighborhood, and thought it'd be "cool" to live in a house with such a sordid history.
  • Even though they didn't have much money, they figured that they could buy the house at a discount and make it work out somehow.
  • They soon realized that the mortgage and boat payments were too much and they got cold feet. This happens to a lot of couples when they buy a house they can't afford.
  • George's land surveying business wasn't doing well, hence why he sat around the house all day, brooding in front of the fireplace and randomly checking the boat (bored and nothing to do).
  • They came up with the idea, along with DeFeo's lawyer, to concoct a BS story about a haunting (using elements of the Exorcist and other popular pop culture inspirations from the 1970s).
  • Claimed they called the police, but public records PROVE that this never happened.
  • Quietly walked away from their mortgage (didn't flee in the middle of the night)
  • Moved far away to avoid George's creditors. Or, as they'd like you to believe, because the ghosties followed them :think:

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DC Fan
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by DC Fan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:00 pm

One thing that has always bothered me about these hoax theories is that there never is any explanation about why, if Lutz considered himself such a great potential writer of horror fiction, he did not just try writing fiction and submitting it for publication as fiction. Stephen King and James Herbert were just starting off at that time but William Peter Blatty had already made a pile of money. Why share it with Jay Anson?

If Lutz had ever submitted this story before buying the house in Amityville, I would accept that as proof of a hoax.

And I wish someone would have gotten a hold of Lutz's and/or William H Parry's tax returns from the time in order to put to rest the question of whether his bank was being irrational in granting him the mortgage.

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Amit Y Ville
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by Amit Y Ville » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:03 pm

daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am
After all these years, I come back to visit and there are STILL people who believe this hoax. Wow! Even after it has been thoroughly debunked. Here's a refresher course of what REALLY happened:
  • George and Kathy Lutz liked the Amityville house and the neighborhood, and thought it'd be "cool" to live in a house with such a sordid history.
  • Even though they didn't have much money, they figured that they could buy the house at a discount and make it work out somehow.
  • They soon realized that the mortgage and boat payments were too much and they got cold feet. This happens to a lot of couples when they buy a house they can't afford.
  • George's land surveying business wasn't doing well, hence why he sat around the house all day, brooding in front of the fireplace and randomly checking the boat (bored and nothing to do).
  • They came up with the idea, along with DeFeo's lawyer, to concoct a BS story about a haunting (using elements of the Exorcist and other popular pop culture inspirations from the 1970s).
  • Claimed they called the police, but public records PROVE that this never happened.
  • Quietly walked away from their mortgage (didn't flee in the middle of the night)
  • Moved far away to avoid George's creditors. Or, as they'd like you to believe, because the ghosties followed them :think:
One question. Why did you bother coming back?
:think:
Had to have high, high hopes for a living - Panic! At The Disco

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:13 pm

I think he wants to buy the house with the other posters in here. Do you happen to know the name of that imbecile who came up with that idea?

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:15 pm

DC Fan wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:00 pm
One thing that has always bothered me about these hoax theories is that there never is any explanation about why, if Lutz considered himself such a great potential writer of horror fiction, he did not just try writing fiction and submitting it for publication as fiction. Stephen King and James Herbert were just starting off at that time but William Peter Blatty had already made a pile of money. Why share it with Jay Anson?

If Lutz had ever submitted this story before buying the house in Amityville, I would accept that as proof of a hoax.

And I wish someone would have gotten a hold of Lutz's and/or William H Parry's tax returns from the time in order to put to rest the question of whether his bank was being irrational in granting him the mortgage.
Most people aren't able to dedicate themselves to the task of writing a novel and completing it in full. And even if they do, it's probably going to be very amateur in quality and not marketable. I don't see why Lutz would be any exception to this. But for all we know, maybe he did try, and that's possibly what he was doing while moping around the house all day. Regardless, he and Kathy must have realized at some point that the only way they were going to produce a marketable product was with the help of an established writer under the premise of a "true" story about the survivors of a genuine haunted house that was already in headlines around the world due to the DeFeo familicide.

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:24 pm

Amit Y Ville wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:03 pm
daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am
After all these years, I come back to visit and there are STILL people who believe this hoax. Wow! Even after it has been thoroughly debunked. Here's a refresher course of what REALLY happened:
  • George and Kathy Lutz liked the Amityville house and the neighborhood, and thought it'd be "cool" to live in a house with such a sordid history.
  • Even though they didn't have much money, they figured that they could buy the house at a discount and make it work out somehow.
  • They soon realized that the mortgage and boat payments were too much and they got cold feet. This happens to a lot of couples when they buy a house they can't afford.
  • George's land surveying business wasn't doing well, hence why he sat around the house all day, brooding in front of the fireplace and randomly checking the boat (bored and nothing to do).
  • They came up with the idea, along with DeFeo's lawyer, to concoct a BS story about a haunting (using elements of the Exorcist and other popular pop culture inspirations from the 1970s).
  • Claimed they called the police, but public records PROVE that this never happened.
  • Quietly walked away from their mortgage (didn't flee in the middle of the night)
  • Moved far away to avoid George's creditors. Or, as they'd like you to believe, because the ghosties followed them :think:
One question. Why did you bother coming back?
:think:
I must have heard something about it recently that sparked my interest. But anyway, just I think it's an interesting story. The way that the very real tragedy of the DeFeo familicide sparked this wild and sensationalist tale of boogey men and ghosts. Then all the weird circumstances surrounding the Lutz family. I like to come back and see what new twists people come up with in regards to either exposing the hoax or defending it. It IS a hoax. And come on people... ghosts AREN'T REAL. But with that being said, you're all free to believe what you'd like.

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daiichi
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by daiichi » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:27 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:13 pm
I think he wants to buy the house with the other posters in here. Do you happen to know the name of that imbecile who came up with that idea?
Neat idea! We could all chip in and take turns staying in it, like a timeshare. :P :P

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DC Fan
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by DC Fan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:37 pm

daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:15 pm
DC Fan wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:00 pm
One thing that has always bothered me about these hoax theories is that there never is any explanation about why, if Lutz considered himself such a great potential writer of horror fiction, he did not just try writing fiction and submitting it for publication as fiction. Stephen King and James Herbert were just starting off at that time but William Peter Blatty had already made a pile of money. Why share it with Jay Anson?

If Lutz had ever submitted this story before buying the house in Amityville, I would accept that as proof of a hoax.

And I wish someone would have gotten a hold of Lutz's and/or William H Parry's tax returns from the time in order to put to rest the question of whether his bank was being irrational in granting him the mortgage.
Most people aren't able to dedicate themselves to the task of writing a novel and completing it in full. And even if they do, it's probably going to be very amateur in quality and not marketable. I don't see why Lutz would be any exception to this. But for all we know, maybe he did try, and that's possibly what he was doing while moping around the house all day. Regardless, he and Kathy must have realized at some point that the only way they were going to produce a marketable product was with the help of an established writer under the premise of a "true" story about the survivors of a genuine haunted house that was already in headlines around the world due to the DeFeo familicide.

Well, that's why I say if he did try submitting a manuscript I would accept it as proof of a hoax. But even if you try doing short stories and try getting an agent, you would figure out eventually if you're just not good enough. I would think if it were true of Lutz, someone would have come out with it by now that he tried his luck at being a writer and sucked.

Jay Anson was a Hollywood documentary hack that Lutz would have needed a publisher to find and it was the publisher who found him. The general public had never heard of him before.

Plus there is the issue of introducing risks if you buy a house you actually can't afford, if that part were true, in order to try to pull it off the way you describe it. Haunted house stories were not that big and Lutz would not have known in advance that his story would be a success. But the hoax people never want to listen to that one or acknowledge the speculation/knowledge distinction when the speculation is theirs.

And then there is the strange coincidence that this house, not being the first one Lutz toured, is the one having a boathouse where he could dock his boats, the basement where he could move his business and plenty of bedrooms to accommodate even the other two kids he had later with Kathy. So he wants to buy the scene of a murder to concoct a "true story" and it just happens to fit his needs?

Probably everyone here admits this hoax story is POSSIBLE but I don't think it's very likely to be true.

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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:26 pm

daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am
  • George and Kathy Lutz liked the Amityville house and the neighborhood, and thought it'd be "cool" to live in a house with such a sordid history.
...what? :P
  • Even though they didn't have much money, they figured that they could buy the house at a discount and make it work out somehow.
...yep.
  • They soon realized that the mortgage and boat payments were too much and they got cold feet. This happens to a lot of couples when they buy a house they can't afford.
Speculation.
  • George's land surveying business wasn't doing well, hence why he sat around the house all day, brooding in front of the fireplace and randomly checking the boat (bored and nothing to do).
...Speculation!
  • They came up with the idea, along with DeFeo's lawyer, to concoct a BS story about a haunting (using elements of the Exorcist and other popular pop culture inspirations from the 1970s).
If so, why would they turned down all interviews beyond the initial press conference? The story they "created" was just getting hot!
  • Claimed they called the police, but public records PROVE that this never happened.
I don't think anyone checked the records back then. The police told Kaplan they never visited, but was that an attempt to stop the hype surrounding the story?
  • Quietly walked away from their mortgage (didn't flee in the middle of the night)
What about giving up the house and their possessions?
  • Moved far away to avoid George's creditors. Or, as they'd like you to believe, because the ghosties followed them :think:
Speculation!
And come on people... ghosts AREN'T REAL.
Ah, I see where you're coming from now :P

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jimmysmokes
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Re: There is NO proof of a haunting

Post by jimmysmokes » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:35 pm

DC Fan wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:37 pm
daiichi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:15 pm
DC Fan wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:00 pm
One thing that has always bothered me about these hoax theories is that there never is any explanation about why, if Lutz considered himself such a great potential writer of horror fiction, he did not just try writing fiction and submitting it for publication as fiction. Stephen King and James Herbert were just starting off at that time but William Peter Blatty had already made a pile of money. Why share it with Jay Anson?

If Lutz had ever submitted this story before buying the house in Amityville, I would accept that as proof of a hoax.

And I wish someone would have gotten a hold of Lutz's and/or William H Parry's tax returns from the time in order to put to rest the question of whether his bank was being irrational in granting him the mortgage.
Most people aren't able to dedicate themselves to the task of writing a novel and completing it in full. And even if they do, it's probably going to be very amateur in quality and not marketable. I don't see why Lutz would be any exception to this. But for all we know, maybe he did try, and that's possibly what he was doing while moping around the house all day. Regardless, he and Kathy must have realized at some point that the only way they were going to produce a marketable product was with the help of an established writer under the premise of a "true" story about the survivors of a genuine haunted house that was already in headlines around the world due to the DeFeo familicide.

Well, that's why I say if he did try submitting a manuscript I would accept it as proof of a hoax. But even if you try doing short stories and try getting an agent, you would figure out eventually if you're just not good enough. I would think if it were true of Lutz, someone would have come out with it by now that he tried his luck at being a writer and sucked.

Jay Anson was a Hollywood documentary hack that Lutz would have needed a publisher to find and it was the publisher who found him. The general public had never heard of him before.

Plus there is the issue of introducing risks if you buy a house you actually can't afford, if that part were true, in order to try to pull it off the way you describe it. Haunted house stories were not that big and Lutz would not have known in advance that his story would be a success. But the hoax people never want to listen to that one or acknowledge the speculation/knowledge distinction when the speculation is theirs.

And then there is the strange coincidence that this house, not being the first one Lutz toured, is the one having a boathouse where he could dock his boats, the basement where he could move his business and plenty of bedrooms to accommodate even the other two kids he had later with Kathy. So he wants to buy the scene of a murder to concoct a "true story" and it just happens to fit his needs?

Probably everyone here admits this hoax story is POSSIBLE but I don't think it's very likely to be true.
Well it's a good thing for us all here that George & Kathy bought the house on Ocean Avenue that was the haunted one!

And it is strange huh, what a coincidence :P

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