My Amityville Horror

General Discussion About Anything Amityville And Other Paranormal Topics
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sherbetbizarre
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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:40 am

To me, it looks like they made this up to get back at their "bad" step-dad.
jimmysmokes wrote:were the "spirits" present at 112 ocean ave all along or did lutz bring them on during his, whatever he did at that house?
I don't really have an opinion on this! But obviously if something told the priest to "Get Out" on day one, something was already there...

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:57 am

I created an interesting discussion in another thread about this issue on page two here:

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... 6&start=21

Regarding the rhetorical question of why Father Ray would have a problem if George was the agitator who caused the problem, I suggested reasons why Father Ray might not be as believable as people have commonly assumed. It included a response from Sherb.

Sherb:

It looks to me like you expressed an opinion in this other thread, if not also in this one, despite your statement here that you do not have an opinion on this. Do I have this right or am I misinterpreting something?

You used quotes in the "bad" in "bad step dad". Can we take that to mean that you believe that George was a good dad, or at least better than his step sons claim? If so, why would both step sons leave home at a young age?

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:12 am

DC Fan wrote:IIt looks to me like you expressed an opinion in this other thread, if not also in this one, despite your statement here that you do not have an opinion on this. Do I have this right or am I misinterpreting something?
I wouldn't like to guess whether the house was haunted before the Lutzes moved in - on page two of the other thread I was talking about the house after they had left.
You used quotes in the "bad" in "bad step dad". Can we take that to mean that you believe that George was a good dad, or at least better than his step sons claim? If so, why would both step sons leave home at a young age?
It's entirely possible they found it a bad situation to be in... but I think they saw an opportunity to turn George's Amityville experience against him, and make him an instigator. I'm not buying it though!

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:24 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:It's entirely possible they found it a bad situation to be in... but I think they saw an opportunity to turn George's Amityville experience against him, and make him an instigator. I'm not buying it though!
George had always maintained that he knew nothing of the occult and did not believe in it prior to moving to Amityville. To the extent that there is a Quaratino narrative in opposition to the Lutz narrative, it consists in denying this. Chris and Dan both have affirmed or talked consistent with much of what George has stated on other subjects.

IMO, the closets thing we have to some hard evidence against George is the fact that the term "Poltergeist puke" appears in Laura DiDio's notes, attributed to George, from the immediate aftermath of the Lutzes leaving the house in early 1976, prior to the psychic investigations. In those days almost nobody knew what that word meant. Where did George learn it?

I suppose it is possible that Chris and Dan are just trying to discredit George out of anger without a concern for truth. However if that is their goal, I'm not sure it would not be better for them to just declare the whole thing a hoax and try to cut a deal with a commercial publisher or big name movie maker.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:51 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:To me, it looks like they made this up to get back at their "bad" step-dad.
jimmysmokes wrote:were the "spirits" present at 112 ocean ave all along or did lutz bring them on during his, whatever he did at that house?
I don't really have an opinion on this! But obviously if something told the priest to "Get Out" on day one, something was already there...
you should considering that George has commented on this through the years not to mention he spoke open contradictions. I was just going through some of his past interviews and it's interesting what he says.
the priest thing (father pecararro) NEVER happened! That's just something anson wants you to believe. the church basically said that this incident was a lie and moved that so called "priest" to another area when they learned of his (their) nonsense. just consider here. you really think a catholic priest would never tell a family that he is looking after that something along the lines of being demonic happened to him while he "blessed" their home, until months later, as lutz claims? this incident here is the biggest indicator that this whole thing was a fraud!

if something was already there then how come the defeo's never spoke of this and their house having strange occurrences and the like? seems to me that a family that practiced the catholic religion in that house, said rosaries and built shrines, one would come to expect that the evil spririts would have went nuts and driven them out too.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:03 pm

DC Fan wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote:It's entirely possible they found it a bad situation to be in... but I think they saw an opportunity to turn George's Amityville experience against him, and make him an instigator. I'm not buying it though!
George had always maintained that he knew nothing of the occult and did not believe in it prior to moving to Amityville. To the extent that there is a Quaratino narrative in opposition to the Lutz narrative, it consists in denying this. Chris and Dan both have affirmed or talked consistent with much of what George has stated on other subjects.

IMO, the closets thing we have to some hard evidence against George is the fact that the term "Poltergeist puke" appears in Laura DiDio's notes, attributed to George, from the immediate aftermath of the Lutzes leaving the house in early 1976, prior to the psychic investigations. In those days almost nobody knew what that word meant. Where did George learn it?

I suppose it is possible that Chris and Dan are just trying to discredit George out of anger without a concern for truth. However if that is their goal, I'm not sure it would not be better for them to just declare the whole thing a hoax and try to cut a deal with a commercial publisher or big name movie maker.
some good questions here dc fan. but lutz had an answer for it, later on that is. he claimed he took a "crash course" in demonology and the occult, while still in the house towards the final days of their stay. see how that works?

dan lutz is very clear in his (walters) documentary that he really did see George move an object with his mind across a room. I guess if that is the truth then George was into something nasty? but then if you read what George said, (like I did) yesterday while online, you would see that something or someone is making stuff up here?
tell you what, ill save that for later.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:16 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote:I don't really have an opinion on this!
you should considering that George has commented on this through the years not to mention he spoke open contradictions. I was just going through some of his past interviews and it's interesting what he says.
I know he felt something was there all along, and helped DeFeo commit his evil act, but I'm not sure if I agree that something had to be influencing Defeo...

What are his contradictions?
the priest thing (father pecararro) NEVER happened! That's just something anson wants you to believe.

Why just Anson? We have George, Kathy, Danny, Chris and Father Pecoro himself, all saying he was there on day one.
some good questions here dc fan. but lutz had an answer for it, later on that is. he claimed he took a "crash course" in demonology and the occult, while still in the house towards the final days of their stay. see how that works?
Yeah, that was going to be my answer too - but is it hard so hard to believe? George even left one of the books behind - it can be seen on the coffee table in the Warren photos!

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:19 pm

DC Fan wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote:I suppose it is possible that Chris and Dan are just trying to discredit George out of anger without a concern for truth. However if that is their goal, I'm not sure it would not be better for them to just declare the whole thing a hoax and try to cut a deal with a commercial publisher or big name movie maker.
This was one of the things which first started me believing - Christopher bad-mouthing his step-father, yet still insisting the story was essentially true.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by Rsmensen62 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:27 pm

The only thing that seemed credible to me was the photograph of the little boy peeking out an upstairs door. I believe it was shot the night the TV reporter and several other stayed in the house. The reporter said nothing unusual happened except this photo was taken of a boy in an upstairs room but there were no children in the house. That's all they said about that. I thought I was the creepiest thing and it gave me the shivers. I kept waiting for them to expound on that but they never did. Anyone know if that image was debunked or any info on it?

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:47 am

Rsmensen62 wrote:I kept waiting for them to expound on that but they never did. Anyone know if that image was debunked or any info on it?
We have a debunk right here, which some people swear by...

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... own#p82981

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... f=8&t=7048

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:01 am

sherbetbizarre wrote:
some good questions here dc fan. but lutz had an answer for it, later on that is. he claimed he took a "crash course" in demonology and the occult, while still in the house towards the final days of their stay. see how that works?
Yeah, that was going to be my answer too - but is it hard so hard to believe? George even left one of the books behind - it can be seen on the coffee table in the Warren photos!
Wow! I didn't know there was such a book found on the coffee table. I wonder why it did not even raise any eyebrows or prompt any question because some homeowners spook themselves.

This does appear to be a good retort to the point I raised and I honestly did forget about this claim of a "crash course". However, Dan Lutz might say that it was part of a larger library.

Let's consider the idea for a minute here. A suburban land surveyor in 1975/76, who would not know himself at the beginning even who to contact who might know of such things, finds someone willing to teach him demonology over Christmas/New Year holidays or shortly thereafter. And it should not have been Father Ray. It would not have taken the form of some community college thing advertised somewhere.

If George just bought the book at a bookstore during that timeframe, maybe after somebody recommended it, that could easily have been his story. I would find that more believable.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by jimmysmokes » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:06 pm

if something was there all along, no reason it wouldn't still be there up till now. no reports from other owners.

he could've had the book for as part of his collection? leaving it behind ( out on a table) for someone to notice says to me that he wanted to make sure people would notice it to add to the story.

so this priest shows up on the first day the Lutzes move in, they conveniently are not around while he does this impromptu blessing and a malevolent voice screams at him to get out! the priest departs and knows something bordering on the demonic is residing in the house, but somehow fails to mention this till much later on after the Lutzes have moved out? that's some priest that does nothing to warn this family of imminent danger they are in because he's in fear of the evil that he was ordained to fight against?

Just think on that for a moment and register it as even remotely feasible.

Chris and Dan are obviously a couple of whiny brats that never grew up. just look how they treat each other. I would not put much stock in what they put forward on tah.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by Brendan72 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:10 am

I personally would not go as far as describing Chris or Danny as 'whiny brats". I think that description is a bit unfair and judgemental which sadly is a common trait of our species. I think it tends to be a trait by people who have issues themselves and rather than address their own personal flaws prefer to reflect it on others.

I think like most of us Chris and Danny have issues to work through and are doing it in their own way whether you agree or disagree with how they go about it. What is obvious is the degree of hostility towards their stepfather and that does not accrue or fester over time without some basis of credibility. I'm not suggesting George was abusive but it is not uncommon for boys to get territorial when a new guy hones in on a role previously filled by their father.
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"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:42 am

jimmysmokes wrote:if something was there all along, no reason it wouldn't still be there up till now.
Not after all the psychics and mediums had a go at cleansing the place.
so this priest shows up on the first day the Lutzes move in, they conveniently are not around while he does this impromptu blessing and a malevolent voice screams at him to get out! the priest departs and knows something bordering on the demonic is residing in the house, but somehow fails to mention this till much later on after the Lutzes have moved out? that's some priest that does nothing to warn this family of imminent danger they are in because he's in fear of the evil that he was ordained to fight against?
He wasn't trained as an exorcist though!

It's a tricky one - he definitely told them not to sleep in it. But would he want to scare them on day one?

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:19 am

jimmysmokes wrote:he could've had the book for as part of his collection? leaving it behind ( out on a table) for someone to notice says to me that he wanted to make sure people would notice it to add to the story.
In all fairness, the Lutzes also left behind food in the fridge and it appears in a photo. Laura DiDio described the house as looking as if the family had just gone out for the day. A book currently being read being found on the coffee table does not provoke suspicion. To people who believe in the haunting, this is one indication that haunting claims are believable.

Or it was part of a plan that would have been better orchestrated than hoax theorists commonly assume? :think:
At some point people give them too much credit.

As I stated earlier, I wonder why a homeowner reading occult books should not raise eyebrows among the paranormal investigators at least because people can spook themselves.

Sherb:

I can see Father Ray not talking about his experiences on moving day, especially given that the children might walk in. However he had lots of other opportunities to tell George what happened after moving day.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:57 am

exactly, dc fan! plus the priest not being ordained an exorcist is not the point because he was not there to perform an exorcism.

now the Defeos were a real Catholic family. noting also they had at least one priest we know of that was at the house and more than likely did some blessing and said some prayers. nothing happened then so not much could've been there at that time and if you take a look at this " priest " with the lutz kids, he appears to look like no priest at all!

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:20 am

jimmysmokes wrote:exactly, dc fan! plus the priest not being ordained an exorcist is not the point because he was not there to perform an exorcism.

now the Defeos were a real Catholic family. noting also they had at least one priest we know of that was at the house and more than likely did some blessing and said some prayers. nothing happened then so not much could've been there at that time and if you take a look at this " priest " with the lutz kids, he appears to look like no priest at all!
A priest or nun will not wear the collar/habit everywhere. I have a cousin who became a nun, so I know this. We can't even assume that the Dodge Aspen seen in the photos belonged to Father Ray, rather than it being one of a group of communal cars belonging to the rectory that he could sign out when needed.

I don't know that it ever was in dispute that the guy in that photo with the Aspen and the kids is Father Ray.

If I recall correctly, there is an unconfirmed story out there of an attempted exorcism during the DeFeo tenure resulting in a storm of Poltergeist activity. Other people here probably remember the details and origin of this better than I do.

Why were the DeFeos a real Catholic family and not the Lutzes? I don't think George being raised as a Methodist should disqualify them, if that is what you mean.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:15 pm

most priests and nuns today and since the 1960's, are not catholic even though they claim to be. the defeos at least had a home that had catholic imagery all over, said rosaries, went to mass on sunday and attended catholic schools. the lutzes did not. George was not catholic, his wife was an apostate, and since they were both married before, their "marriage" was probably not recognized by the church? Plus are you forgetting that George and Kathy practiced tm which is something a catholic is forbidden to do, stems from paganism.

that float with you?

ps, one of the 6 precepts of the church regarding marriage is for catholics to not marry non-catholics.

there is no record of an exorcism during the defeos tenure.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:14 pm

jimmysmokes wrote: there is no record of an exorcism during the defeos tenure.
Exactly. I called it an unconfirmed story.

As for the rest, I leave it to people in medieval times to draw conclusions from it.

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by Brooke Forrester » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:08 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote:To me, it looks like they made this up to get back at their "bad" step-dad.
jimmysmokes wrote:were the "spirits" present at 112 ocean ave all along or did lutz bring them on during his, whatever he did at that house?
I don't really have an opinion on this! But obviously if something told the priest to "Get Out" on day one, something was already there...


if something was already there then how come the defeo's never spoke of this and their house having strange occurrences and the like? seems to me that a family that practiced the catholic religion in that house, said rosaries and built shrines, one would come to expect that the evil spririts would have went nuts and driven them out too.
What I've never understood is why people wouldn't think the Lutz haunting was caused by the DeFeo's themselves after the murders?

If I moved into a house where a family was murdered and then I had paranormal activity, my first thought would be, it's the murder victims.

However Anson's book has George dismiss that idea right away and start looking for something to have been wrong before the murders. I don't get this.

I've often wondered if everyone involved in the story didn't want to imply that the DeFeos haunted the house because they were afraid of offending the relatives of the DeFeos, or did they think it was too simple, or both?

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Re: My Amityville Horror

Post by DC Fan » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:20 pm

Brooke Forrester wrote:What I've never understood is why people wouldn't think the Lutz haunting was caused by the DeFeo's themselves after the murders?
In general, I've never understood why people think that such things have to be the work of dead people. Residual energy theories at least seem to avoid the problem of how or why someone haunts people after death, if you want to specifically relate it to death. Maybe it's the influence of a literary tradition going back to Shakespeare and beyond?

If such were possible, maybe Kathy being touched is one event that would be explainable this way. As for the rest, why would the DeFeos do some of this stuff that includes levitations, deformities, smells, and physical assault?

As for this movie, I think Dan is fairly clear on why he believes something other than the DeFeos is the explanation, even if he was never asked why not the DeFeos. Chris in at least one interview officially denied the DeFeo ghost explanation, stating among other things that apparitions they saw were clearly not the DeFeos. George and Kathy went to Weber out of concern that something may have affected Butch, if you believe what they say about that.

This last part especially seems to me to indicate that the Lutzes were not out to avoid insulting the DeFeos with a ghost explanation because they actually did not believe it.

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