My Amityville Horror

[Brendan72]

if something was there all along, no reason it wouldn't still be there up till now.

Not after all the psychics and mediums had a go at cleansing the place.

so this priest shows up on the first day the Lutzes move in, they conveniently are not around while he does this impromptu blessing and a malevolent voice screams at him to get out! the priest departs and knows something bordering on the demonic is residing in the house, but somehow fails to mention this till much later on after the Lutzes have moved out? that's some priest that does nothing to warn this family of imminent danger they are in because he's in fear of the evil that he was ordained to fight against?

He wasn't trained as an exorcist though!

It's a tricky one - he definitely told them not to sleep in it. But would he want to scare them on day one?

This interview with George Lutz at the Penn State Unicon in 2003 might help address the issue of how the incident in the sewing room was broached by Father Ray after blessing the house on moving day (source: http://www.amityvillefaq.com/intlgps.html):

"So as a friend he came to do that. And during that process a number of things occurred that he did not tell us about. When he went to leave he told us he was very uncomfortable about one particular room on the second floor. And that was what we called the Sewing Room. We had not planned on using it as a bedroom. And he was glad of that. He said, "I felt something in there, and I just wasn't comfortable, and I think that if you don't use it as a bedroom to leave the door open, then."

We didn't really understand what he was saying, but since we weren't going to use it as a bedroom, it wasn't an issue – it was just another thing – a kinda thing that happened."

[Amityville Rock]

in other words they made up some fibs?

were the "spirits" present at 112 ocean ave all along or did lutz bring them on during his, whatever he did at that house?

I have reason to beieve it was already "haunted" when the Defeo Family moved in, so before 1965. Although this very much depends on what you mean by "spirits". Do I think there were human ghosts present prior to the Defeo murders, no. Do I think the property was used as a dwelling place by an entity of some type, yes.

[Brooke Forrester]

What I've never understood is why people wouldn't think the Lutz haunting was caused by the DeFeo's themselves after the murders?

In general, I've never understood why people think that such things have to be the work of dead people. Residual energy theories at least seem to avoid the problem of how or why someone haunts people after death, if you want to specifically relate it to death. Maybe it's the influence of a literary tradition going back to Shakespeare and beyond?

If such were possible, maybe Kathy being touched is one event that would be explainable this way. As for the rest, why would the DeFeos do some of this stuff that includes levitations, deformities, smells, and physical assault?

As for this movie, I think Dan is fairly clear on why he believes something other than the DeFeos is the explanation, even if he was never asked why not the DeFeos. Chris in at least one interview officially denied the DeFeo ghost explanation, stating among other things that apparitions they saw were clearly not the DeFeos. George and Kathy went to Weber out of concern that something may have affected Butch, if you believe what they say about that.

This last part especially seems to me to indicate that the Lutzes were not out to avoid insulting the DeFeos with a ghost explanation because they actually did not believe it.

I do believe in residual energies, and negative energies. It's very possible that was the problem.

I tend to believe that there wasn't a problem with the property until the DeFeo family moved in, which I believe was caused by the negativity of Ronald DeFeo Jr. I think with him commiting the murders, that was what brought in any paranormal problems, and I believe it to be a combination of the DeFeos not yet moved on, and evil spirits also that were drawn to the place because of the murders.

My sister and I were watching shows about poltergeist activity, and it said that they are caused by a person and sometimes that person doesn't even know they are doing it.

So you said, why would the DeFeos cause things like levitations or physical harm, is it possible that in anger and confusion the spirits could cause such things without it being the intention? I think it makes sense.

Also, about the smells, I'm not convinced that was paranormal. Since my house has aged and is now the same age as the house was at the time of these events, I've noticed things we never had before, such as sulphuric smells coming from the sinks, and a black substance that builds up in the toilets only days after I cleaned them. I think this is due to the pipes getting old and build ups of some sort, I'm no plumber so I don't know the terms, but anyway I think that's what happened with the toilets and plumbing at the Amityville house, and because the Lutz family was frightened, they read more into it than there was.

I'm a very superstitious person and I believe in Hell, curses, all that sort of thing, but I do also believe we should first look at and rule out natural phenomenon before making it paranormal. The paranormal is impossible to prove, at least at this point, and I think it always will be, it's a matter of faith and belief.

My problem with condemning the house/property as "evil" before the murders is, I don't feel there is enough evidence to back up the claims. No sources are ever named for most of the accusations. So it's just hearsay. I feel like if there was a burial ground there, why aren't more houses in the neighborhood having problems, I can't imagine just that one piece of property would be where it was. That was why I thought Holzer's explanation of a single Indian being the problem made a bit more sense, if you're going to go with the Indian theory.

I also don't think it's fair to say John Ketcham was definitely a witch just because he was run out of Salem for being one (if that story is true, not sure it was ever proven), most if not all of those accused of witchcraft were innocent.

We don't have any solid sources for the claims of anyone other than the Lutz's experiencing paranormal activity there.

But there is enough evidence to know that Ronnie was very troubled, even before moving into the house, so I'm going to go with him and his crime as the source of the problems the Lutz's experienced.

I feel like Anson didn't want to offend the DeFeo's relatives by suggesting they hadn't moved on, and I also think it seemed more exciting to him and whoever else may have been involved in writing the book, to add in things like vengeful Indians and witches, sort of how a movie script writer might change things from a book to make it what they think is a better story that will affect an audience better.

[Brendan72]

in other words they made up some fibs?

were the "spirits" present at 112 ocean ave all along or did lutz bring them on during his, whatever he did at that house?

I have reason to beieve it was already "haunted" when the Defeo Family moved in, so before 1965. Although this very much depends on what you mean by "spirits". Do I think there were human ghosts present prior to the Defeo murders, no. Do I think the property was used as a dwelling place by an entity of some type, yes.

We know from many cases of paranormal activity take place where tragic (and violent) incidences such as the DeFeo murders occurred. Places such as Gettysburg have had numerous documented cases through investigations and independent sightings, of paranormal activity. This can be because the environment in which it occurred can leave an imprint of what happened and can result in sightings or even hearing what may have occurred during the tragic event.

We know Kathy Lutz claimed to have had vivid dreams regarding the DeFeo murders, so vivid that in fact it was later determined from crime scene reports supplied by William Weber that she dreamed what order the victims were killed.

It is not inconceivable that negative energies (non human perhaps) can be attracted to areas of great tragedy such as the DeFeo murders, and that it was contained in the dwelling of the house for thirteen months while the house remained empty. Was it coincidence that the Father's blessing awoke it or it was already awakened and felt challenged by the priest? This could explain why the haunting intensified in such short time as it did (the 28 days). One can entertain the idea that had the blessing not taken place how slowly the paranormal activity would build up and perhaps the Lutz family would have stayed there longer? Would the negative entity have awoken at all? At a guess from other cases it would have awoken by the new presences in the house (the Lutz family) and the activity may have slowly accelerated over time.

Over the years I have considered the notion that Missy Lutz was psychically sensitive. Of course being a child we know children tend to be more sensitive so whether it was because she was just a child and the easiest target for the entity there I cannot say, but going off other cases we know children tend to be the first to pick up something not there but of course initially are not believed by the adults on account of it being written off as an imaginary friend, which is not uncommon with a lot of children. We know George and Kathy began to take the presence known as "Jodie" more seriously when Missy began to repeat things they knew a six year old could not possibly know, such as "you're never going to leave here". We also know George saw a pair of red eyes looking at him in the back yard from Missy's bedroom window one night. We know of the rocking chair moving of its' own volition and being seen doing so.

With the Amityville case there are a lot of variables involved such as George and Kathy's TM, the priest blessing, the DeFeo murders. I think there are a lot more variables in this case then there were in others. A few have come close such as the site of the Manson murders which I can dare say can equal that of the DeFeo murders or one can draw comparisons to. There was an episode of the Manson murders on Paranormal Witness if anybody has seen this? Worth watching if you have not as you can clearly see many similarities to Amityville.

[Amityville Rock]

More food for thought there have been other violent cases, such as the infamous Bell Witch, where following years of very intense activity things calm down never to reach high levels again. Why do such events occur then fizzle out, often as suddenly as they started? We still do not know enough about the paranormal to wager an educated guess.

[OntarioGuy1988]

Brendan72 and Amityvillerock, couldn't agree more.

What's more, I've talked to Chris Quaratino on facebook and the Jodie incident was real and confirmed by both boys too (where they saw red eyes looking at them from missy's window then saw the rocking chair rocking.. very creepy

A demonic figure was at work here. Does Persephone still come on here? I know she changed her name on here to something new in recent years but in 2005 she had a very good post where she gave her psychic impressions of the house..

She said there were 4 entities- an older woman who leaves perfume smells (kathy being hugged) who im very sure was the first owner of the home, as Marie st Claire also thinks the original owners haunt the home. They are not evil. The 2nd spirit is a child 10-14 years old, I strongly believe from research it is Allison. She never did leave the house, she never couyld fully come to terms with what happened 41 years ago and cross over. Both spirits are said to be terrified of the demonic entity persephone says resides in the basement, and do not show themselves around it for fear of reprisals. The demonic entity is likely Jodie. She also says there could be a second demonic entity there too

The demon seems at rest today (as far as we know publicly) but who knows what could happen to trigger it back into action, if it hasn't been already? Apparently paranormal things happened to the O'Neills, can anyone confirm this?

[midwest1]

In My Amitiville Horror, Danny Lutz said that a dark spirit came into the kitchen and sat down next to the family. This is the first time I've ever heard this story. Is there anyplace else where Danny goes into detail about this? Was it a demon? One of the DeFeos? Or something else? Definitely one of the creepier parts of the film.

[jecht]

Brendan72 and Amityvillerock, couldn't agree more.

What's more, I've talked to Chris Quaratino on facebook and the Jodie incident was real and confirmed by both boys too (where they saw red eyes looking at them from missy's window then saw the rocking chair rocking.. very creepy

A demonic figure was at work here. Does Persephone still come on here? I know she changed her name on here to something new in recent years but in 2005 she had a very good post where she gave her psychic impressions of the house..

She said there were 4 entities- an older woman who leaves perfume smells (kathy being hugged) who im very sure was the first owner of the home, as Marie st Claire also thinks the original owners haunt the home. They are not evil. The 2nd spirit is a child 10-14 years old, I strongly believe from research it is Allison. She never did leave the house, she never couyld fully come to terms with what happened 41 years ago and cross over. Both spirits are said to be terrified of the demonic entity persephone says resides in the basement, and do not show themselves around it for fear of reprisals. The demonic entity is likely Jodie. She also says there could be a second demonic entity there too

The demon seems at rest today (as far as we know publicly) but who knows what could happen to trigger it back into action, if it hasn't been already? Apparently paranormal things happened to the O'Neills, can anyone confirm this?

She used to have her own website with the Amityville reflections--very dark and emotional. I think that was here.

Also, I think someone (LisaMarie) said the only thing NOT TOUCHED by the spirits was found in a cedar chest. Very subtle subplot/angle nobody really picked upon. She posted about this in 2005.

[Exsecratio]

Who is to say that outside of our own 4 dimensions (3 plus time) that time is linear?

1975 to 2015 to us is 40 years, to anything in a 5th 6th or higher dimension (if they exist) could be a fraction of a second to us? possibly a way to explain why the apparent description of *apparitions* don't age?

[sherbetbizarre]

Also, I think someone (LisaMarie) said the only thing NOT TOUCHED by the spirits was found in a cedar chest. Very subtle subplot/angle nobody really picked upon. She posted about this in 2005.

"Anything made of wood" is I think what the Priest told them. So a chest or two were saved.

[jecht]

Also, I think someone (LisaMarie) said the only thing NOT TOUCHED by the spirits was found in a cedar chest. Very subtle subplot/angle nobody really picked upon. She posted about this in 2005.

"Anything made of wood" is I think what the Priest told them. So a chest or two were saved.

I remember LisaMarie telling us interesting stories about this.

there's probably so much we DON'T know about the case now that GL and KL are gone

[jecht]

Brendan72 and Amityvillerock, couldn't agree more.

What's more, I've talked to Chris Quaratino on facebook and the Jodie incident was real and confirmed by both boys too (where they saw red eyes looking at them from missy's window then saw the rocking chair rocking.. very creepy

A demonic figure was at work here. Does Persephone still come on here? I know she changed her name on here to something new in recent years but in 2005 she had a very good post where she gave her psychic impressions of the house..

She said there were 4 entities- an older woman who leaves perfume smells (kathy being hugged) who im very sure was the first owner of the home, as Marie st Claire also thinks the original owners haunt the home. They are not evil. The 2nd spirit is a child 10-14 years old, I strongly believe from research it is Allison. She never did leave the house, she never couyld fully come to terms with what happened 41 years ago and cross over. Both spirits are said to be terrified of the demonic entity persephone says resides in the basement, and do not show themselves around it for fear of reprisals. The demonic entity is likely Jodie. She also says there could be a second demonic entity there too

The demon seems at rest today (as far as we know publicly) but who knows what could happen to trigger it back into action, if it hasn't been already? Apparently paranormal things happened to the O'Neills, can anyone confirm this?

Read The Haunted re: the Warrens/Smurls

Same situation. Two older women, a man, and a demon figure that would pass between the duplex via the closet.

As silly as some of this would sound to someone not familiar with the case, I still remember Persephone's posts a decade later. Can someone dig it up? I hope the search box can pull prior posts up from a poster.

What about ley lines?

George also talked about the cedar chest w/items in it, invulnerable to spirits. I love this case.

I've studied it since '93; in some ways it has strengthened my faith in a higher power (that's another topic).

[jecht]

if something was there all along, no reason it wouldn't still be there up till now.

Not after all the psychics and mediums had a go at cleansing the place.

so this priest shows up on the first day the Lutzes move in, they conveniently are not around while he does this impromptu blessing and a malevolent voice screams at him to get out! the priest departs and knows something bordering on the demonic is residing in the house, but somehow fails to mention this till much later on after the Lutzes have moved out? that's some priest that does nothing to warn this family of imminent danger they are in because he's in fear of the evil that he was ordained to fight against?

He wasn't trained as an exorcist though!

It's a tricky one - he definitely told them not to sleep in it. But would he want to scare them on day one?

Wouldn't they be suspicious if the priest said "don't go in that room?" I'd be like "Why?" right away.

[jecht]

The odd thing is Kathy, having stepkids, and---apparently---siding with George. Hmmmm. It's just odd.

I don't know that it is all that odd as it is disturbing. Kathy may have been one of these ladies who likes her men on the domineering side. She may have also believed in aggressive punishment when it comes to children. Maybe we were all taken in by the whole nice normal family next door image that was built up by Jay Anson and reflected in the media. The boarding school thing certainly puts a penny in that fusebox. In this film the bad parenting theme is going to be concentrated on George but Dan does not let his mother totally off the hook.

I think parents back then were tougher on their kids in the '70s and '80s. That's a good point about Kathy.

[Fnord]

I really liked this film.

I couldn't relate to some of it as it's generally above and beyond (by miles) any level of weirdness I've ever experienced.

I think Daniel is a genuine person. He seems haunted. He's obviously not a person out to make a name for himself. Laura Didio was a great foil in this as well. She challenged his story in a way I would have wanted to do if I were there.

I think it's awesome that the right combination of cosmic forces combined to allow this production to happen. Eric and team facilitated perfectly to let Daniel tell his story. On top of that, the film itself is beautifully done.

[Amit Y Ville]

The guy plays in a weird guitar tuning so I don't trust him too much. I don't like how he rejected a lie detector test either, he was so defensive to it. One of the greatest mysteries of all time and for the sake of mankind he didn't think it would benefit ANYONE to have some kind of "truth" to a man talking about such unholy, evil forces and if he was convinced by them or not. If I had this kind of thing happen to me, even if I was massively depressed, I would do whatever I could to get closer to more proof about spirits of the dead.

[DC Fan]

The guy plays in a weird guitar tuning so I don't trust him too much. I don't like how he rejected a lie detector test either, he was so defensive to it. One of the greatest mysteries of all time and for the sake of mankind he didn't think it would benefit ANYONE to have some kind of "truth" to a man talking about such unholy, evil forces and if he was convinced by them or not. If I had this kind of thing happen to me, even if I was massively depressed, I would do whatever I could to get closer to more proof about spirits of the dead.

As with George and Kathy before, it would not change anyone's opinion one iota.

Even if a polygraph was proof, it would only prove that you believe what you say. It would not be proof that what you believe is true.

[Dan the Damned]

If I had this kind of thing happen to me, even if I was massively depressed, I would do whatever I could to get closer to more proof about spirits of the dead.

I dunno. If I had this kind of thing (I'm assuming you are referring to the haunting) -- If I had it happen to me, and I mean in a serious way, I am pretty sure I would do whatever I could to get AWAY from anything remotely associated with the paranormal.

Then again, I wouldn't really know how I would react unless it actually happened to me.

[jecht]

in other words they made up some fibs?

were the "spirits" present at 112 ocean ave all along or did lutz bring them on during his, whatever he did at that house?

I have reason to beieve it was already "haunted" when the Defeo Family moved in, so before 1965. Although this very much depends on what you mean by "spirits". Do I think there were human ghosts present prior to the Defeo murders, no. Do I think the property was used as a dwelling place by an entity of some type, yes.

What are your thoughts pre-DeFeo? The families prior to them--nobody really talks about this.

Is it a ley line that caused this disturbance?

Also, about this:
"So as a friend he came to do that. And during that process a number of things occurred that he did not tell us about. When he went to leave he told us he was very uncomfortable about one particular room on the second floor. And that was what we called the Sewing Room. We had not planned on using it as a bedroom. And he was glad of that. He said, "I felt something in there, and I just wasn't comfortable, and I think that if you don't use it as a bedroom to leave the door open, then."

We didn't really understand what he was saying, but since we weren't going to use it as a bedroom, it wasn't an issue – it was just another thing – a kinda thing that happened."

What kind of "something" was he referring to? Did they ever press him about this quote later?

[Amityville Rock]

Jecht I've heard many stories over the years about alleged pre-Defeo hauntings of the house. However, it all amounts to hearsay as those "involved" have never produced any evidence they ever visited 112/108 Ocean Avenue.

[Victoria Principles]

I just saw the documentary. I wonder who haunted Danny more, the spirits or George?