I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted ?

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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby deliveranceminister » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:54 am

Dan the Damned wrote:
deliveranceminister wrote:Lauraine Warren proved that the house was haunted by capturing a picture of the demon after the murders


That is not proof of anything because there is no solid proof that the figure in that photo is a demon or even a ghost. Or even a child, for that matter. Please dig out your dusty dictionary and learn the definitions of the following words:
    • Proof
    • Evidence
    • Opinion
    • Fact

People will take you a lot more seriously if you phrased that as "I believe the house was haunted due to Lorraine Warren's photo of what I consider to be a demon. I think that is very strong evidence that the haunting was real."

You tend to come across in a very dogmatic fashion, and that tends to turn people off. I know, because I do the same sometimes. Let's both take the dogma out for a walk...


deliveranceminister wrote:The picutre that everyone thinks is a boy. If you look closely at the eyes you can tell it's not a spirit of a human, its a demon.


If you look closely at the eyes, you can tell they aren't eyes, but glasses.

The photo is proof ! It is evidence of a demon ! You can tell right away it is a demon. Lorraine left the house and turned the camera on all night long when nobody was there. She needed it as proof and she got it. When you go to a court room in any case sometimes picutres are presented as proof and that's what Lorraine had . The demons just love it when people don't recognize them so they don't have to be cast out . There will be peace in that house when someone realizes the demons must be cast out and that will be amazing.
Mark 16 : 17 Jesus Christ gave authority to all Believers to cast out demons in His name !

You have to experience a haunting or infestation to know about one.
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Victoria Principles » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:39 am

deliveranceminister wrote:
Dan the Damned wrote:
deliveranceminister wrote:Lauraine Warren proved that the house was haunted by capturing a picture of the demon after the murders


That is not proof of anything because there is no solid proof that the figure in that photo is a demon or even a ghost. Or even a child, for that matter. Please dig out your dusty dictionary and learn the definitions of the following words:
    • Proof
    • Evidence
    • Opinion
    • Fact

People will take you a lot more seriously if you phrased that as "I believe the house was haunted due to Lorraine Warren's photo of what I consider to be a demon. I think that is very strong evidence that the haunting was real."

You tend to come across in a very dogmatic fashion, and that tends to turn people off. I know, because I do the same sometimes. Let's both take the dogma out for a walk...


deliveranceminister wrote:The picutre that everyone thinks is a boy. If you look closely at the eyes you can tell it's not a spirit of a human, its a demon.


If you look closely at the eyes, you can tell they aren't eyes, but glasses.

The photo is proof ! It is evidence of a demon ! You can tell right away it is a demon. Lorraine left the house and turned the camera on all night long when nobody was there. She needed it as proof and she got it. When you go to a court room in any case sometimes picutres are presented as proof and that's what Lorraine had . The demons just love it when people don't recognize them so they don't have to be cast out . There will be peace in that house when someone realizes the demons must be cast out and that will be amazing.


If you really think that picture is proof, then go to the Amazing Randy and get a million dollars. If you can do that, then I will think of it as "proof".
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Indrid Cold » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:36 am

deliveranceminister wrote:The photo is proof ! It is evidence of a demon ! You can tell right away it is a demon. Lorraine left the house and turned the camera on all night long when nobody was there. She needed it as proof and she got it. When you go to a court room in any case sometimes picutres are presented as proof and that's what Lorraine had . The demons just love it when people don't recognize them so they don't have to be cast out . There will be peace in that house when someone realizes the demons must be cast out and that will be amazing.


I have squirrel slaying GI Joes running amuck in my neighborhood:
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Boogeyman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:39 am

you probally haunted to with giant ghost squirrels
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Dan the Damned » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:44 am

deliveranceminister wrote:The photo is proof ! It is evidence of a demon ! You can tell right away it is a demon. Lorraine left the house and turned the camera on all night long when nobody was there. She needed it as proof and she got it.


Your usage of the word "proof" is just as wrong as your explanation of how the photo came to be.
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby eber3 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:39 pm

Indrid Cold wrote:I have squirrel slaying GI Joes running amuck in my neighborhood:



Well I have proof that the squirrels are fighting back.

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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Boogeyman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:16 pm

LOL
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby eber3 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:04 pm

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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Boogeyman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:50 pm

we should probally prepare defense on the squirrels especially on the lightsabered squirrels xD

lets unleash the bunny's on them !
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby bella2005 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:10 pm

deliveranceminister wrote:The photo is proof ! It is evidence of a demon ! You can tell right away it is a demon. Lorraine left the house and turned the camera on all night long when nobody was there. She needed it as proof and she got it. When you go to a court room in any case sometimes picutres are presented as proof and that's what Lorraine had . The demons just love it when people don't recognize them so they don't have to be cast out . There will be peace in that house when someone realizes the demons must be cast out and that will be amazing.


Looks like a dude to me.
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Tisha » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:23 pm

Obviously we are being haunted by strangely dressed squirrels. Talk about getting off topic! :roll:
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby shuan6427 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:18 am

I really think that the place was haunted when the Lutz family was there, but the story is grossly exaggarted, it was in the 1979 film, 2005 version just ridiculous!

Some wierd things in regard to the whole story : 1) Nobody heard gunshots on the night of the Defeo killings.

2) The "ghost boy" photo is scary and freaks me out, nobody has proven it to be a fake as far as I know.

3)Why do people find it hard to believe the house could have been haunted? Six people were vioently
killed in that place, their furniture was left in there for over a year ,and the house is sealed up before
Lutz arrives, recipe for at least some decent poltergeist activity.


4) There is conflicting evidence in regard to the Lutz priest. In a TV interview he DID claim that he heard
a voice say "get out", and that he was slapped in the face ( in the sewing room ) Some people say that
he never even visted the house, he just called George and Kathy on phone ( priest Ralph J Peccararo )
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby shuan6427 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:50 am

I agree with Victoria Principles. I think the house was haunted, but not before the DeFeo murders. Maybe Ronnie did hear some drug induced voices, he may have hallucinated, but he killed has family because he wanted to, a demon did not cause him to kill. The haunting happend after the killings, the murders triggerred it. The house was filled with negative energy from the dead Defeo family when George and Kathy moved in.

The house had been sealed up for a year, furniture left in there. The Lutz family created a disturbance of that energy. Some of that energy may even have still been there when the Cromarty family moved in, even if they did not notice it.

The house is not haunted now, still wouldn't like to live there however.
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Boogeyman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:09 am

i agree with that.

i read on a site that the priest was there before the lutz moved in.
and when the lutzes tryd there own blessin they also heared alot of voices ask them to stop it.

i dont know if that is trully happend but it can be the truth.
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby sherbetbizarre » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:59 am

shuan6427 wrote:4) There is conflicting evidence in regard to the Lutz priest.

In a TV interview he DID claim that he heard a voice say "get out", and that he was slapped in the face ( in the sewing room ) Some people say that he never even visted the house, he just called George and Kathy on phone ( priest Ralph J Peccararo )


Some people say that he never even visted the house, he just called George and Kathy on phone = second-hand information at best ;)
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby shuan6427 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:27 am

Sherbetbizzare, I am not saying I don't believe the priest. I believe him. In the "In search of" program he also said that blisters formed on his hands after visiting 112 Ocean Avenue. Scary stuff indeed if it is really true!
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Dan the Damned » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:09 pm

shuan6427 wrote:I really think that the place was haunted when the Lutz family was there...


Before I start, I just wanna say it doesn't matter whether you believe or not. Some of us do, some of us don't, and I think most of us are somewhere in the middle. So don't take my reply as an argument, but more as my possible explanation for the points you addressed:

shuan6427 wrote:1) Nobody heard gunshots on the night of the Defeo killings.


That's the story. But is it really true? I think some people feel that this must be the case since the family was shot/killed in bed. But does the fact that they were shot in bed necessarily mean they were sleeping at the time? Couldn't someone with a gun order their victims back into bed if they got up after the first shots?

And what about the neighbors. True, supposedly none of the neighbors reported hearing gunshots that night. There are a few possible non-paranormal explanations for this. It could be that the neighbors heard something, but didn't want to be involved; or maybe the house muffled the shots to an extent where they weren't loud enough to awaken the neighbors (who probably had their own windows shut tight that night).

shuan6427 wrote:2) The "ghost boy" photo is scary and freaks me out, nobody has proven it to be a fake as far as I know.


No one has proven it a fake. That's right. But I think we have pretty strong evidence backing the theory that it is just an accidental shot of one of the investigators. Honestly, I think the low-resolution copies of the image do look pretty freaky. In some of the low-resolution copies of this photo that I've seen on the web, the reflection from the eyeglasses makes it look like the figure has glowing eyes. But if you look at a high resolution image (as shown on a few Amityville documentaries) the figure looks human and not scary at all. In fact, the expression on the figure's face is one of surprise, so it seems they were more scared at the time than we are now...

shuan6427 wrote:3)Why do people find it hard to believe the house could have been haunted? Six people were vioently killed in that place, their furniture was left in there for over a year ,and the house is sealed up before Lutz arrives, recipe for at least some decent poltergeist activity.


That's not an easy question to answer because there are many varied reasons for people feel this way. Some think it was a hoax, some think the Lutzes imagined it (or that there was some other explanation), some think it's just fiction, and some think it was concocted by DeFeo's lawyer as a possible means for a defense. You'll find threads about all of those topics here in this forum.

shuan6427 wrote:4) There is conflicting evidence in regard to the Lutz priest. In a TV interview he DID claim that he heard a voice say "get out", and that he was slapped in the face ( in the sewing room ) Some people say that he never even visted the house, he just called George and Kathy on phone ( priest Ralph J Peccararo )


I think this notion of the priest never visiting the house stems from this 1979 article in the Washington Post. In it, the reporter cites Long Island Newsday as reporting how Father Ray had told an unnamed source that he had never been near the Amityville house. But in this Newsday article published just a few days prior, Pete Bowles reports that Father Ray testified in court (over the phone) that "he had gone to the house on one occasion, to bless it, and that he had heard a voice behind him say, 'Get Out'."

Nowhere in that Newsday article do they mention Father Ray's alleged declaration (that he was never at the house) in court or on any other occasion. So what is the Post referring to when it states that Newsday reported how Father Ray "had never been near the house at 112 Ocean Ave"?

One possibility may be a radio show broadcast a month earlier, where Joel Martin interviewed DeFeo attorney William Weber (who was among those being sued at the time by the Lutzes). In that interview (a transcript of which is part of Kaplan's book The Amityville Horror Conspiracy) Weber claimed that Father Ray had never been to the Lutzes' Amityville home. This comment may have been reported in some other Newsday article, or may have been mentioned in conversation between the Washington Post and Newsday reporters.

So that might possibly explain where the Post got their info, but where did Weber get this info? He doesn't say, nor was he asked during the interview by Martin. :naughty: One possible explanation for Weber's source is shown in court documents relating to the case. Check out this page on supersleuth Ric Osuna's website:

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/catholic.html

(...then click on the link on the right that says "COURT DOCUMENTS ON PRIEST")

On page 2 of that first document is the statement, "Also mentioned as a witness in Burton's affidavit was Rev. Ralph J Pecoraro who had indicated that his only contact relating to this case was a telephone call from the Lutzes regarding their psychic experiences."

Taken at face value, you may think this statement is declaring that Father Ray had never, ever been to that house -- and I think Bill Weber was using this document as grounds for his comment during the Joel Martin interview.

But is that what this document is really saying? Not at all!

These first two documents you see on Osuna's page are court papers filed by George Lutz's attorney to fight the "change of venue" request by William Weber. You see, the Lutzes lived in California at the time. They filed their initial lawsuit in a California court, but Weber didn't want to travel all the way to California. Naturally he wanted to move the case (change its venue) to New York, where he lived. So he petitioned the court for such a move.

Just as Weber didn't want to travel to California for the trial, the Lutzes didn't want to travel out to New York. Hotels are expensive in New York, let alone the costs for airfare and babysitters for the kids back home, etc. So the Lutzes' lawyer (William Daley) tried to fight this change of venue. And these first two pages you see come from the papers he filed on the Lutzes' behalf.

Weber's argument in support of changing the venue to New York was that it would be an extreme hardship on the witnesses he planned to call upon (most of which lived in/around the New York area).

On that 2nd page, read point #5, where it says, "In order to tally witnesses living in New York, many have been named having no connection whatsoever to any discussions or negotiations between Plaintiffs [Lutz] and Defendants [Weber]." What George's lawyer is saying here is that he feels Weber is merely listing these witnesses to strengthen his argument that the case should be moved to New York. George's lawyer is saying that these 6 people have no involvement in the case, and have no reason to be called as witnesses (thereby weakening Weber's "change of venue" argument a bit). One of these 6 people is Father Ray (aka Father Pecoraro).

No involvement in the case? Yes, but it's important that you realize what this court case was about in order to understand this document. This court case was not about the haunting being real or fake, it was all about the Lutzes allegedly walking out on Weber's book deal.

So now when we read the statement, "Rev Ralph J Pecoraro ... has indicated that his only contact relating to this case was a telephone call," we now realize that "this case" refers to Weber's book deal, not the haunting in general. It is now plain to see how George's lawyer is saying that Father Ray's only contact relating to the Lutzes' dealings with William Weber came during a phone call (the main conversation of said phone call being related to the family's psychic experiences).

Does that make sense? I think I explained it pretty clearly. Read that entire document, and you'll see this common theme. The argument George's lawyer makes against Laura DiDio, Steve Bauman, Diana Ireland and Stanley Milstein being potential witnesses is that they "were never present at any discussions between Weber and the Lutzes."

So we can clearly see that these 2 pages are simply NOT evidence of Father Ray saying he only ever spoke to the Lutzes once in his lifetime, or only once while they owned the house. It is "only once where the mention of Weber's book deal was discussed." :-D
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Kinzoku » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:01 pm

shuan6427 wrote:I agree with Victoria Principles. I think the house was haunted, but not before the DeFeo murders. Maybe Ronnie did hear some drug induced voices, he may have hallucinated, but he killed has family because he wanted to, a demon did not cause him to kill. The haunting happend after the killings, the murders triggerred it. The house was filled with negative energy from the dead Defeo family when George and Kathy moved in.

The house had been sealed up for a year, furniture left in there. The Lutz family created a disturbance of that energy. Some of that energy may even have still been there when the Cromarty family moved in, even if they did not notice it.

The house is not haunted now, still wouldn't like to live there however.


I partially agree with this post, but further.....would care to add that I believe (and I'm not an expert like Dan) that 112/108 has always been haunted. Not so much as the structures built there but the land itself. The reasons?.....Too many variables we just can't comprehend. (afterlife, demons,spirits,). Only a few professional or gifted groups (Warren's, etc) are generally 'in touch' with these fields...and it's usally 'their' word or 'their' findings that are published or promoted.

I agree somewhat in the assumption(s) that George and Kathy might have 'stirred' something up;
The Defeo Murders 'fueled' the entity or presence there;
I believe furniture (wood, specifically; including pulp, paper products (books) )
do resonate and absorb energy both good and bad;

But to finish; I am aware and have read much history of 'dark world rituals' and seances being quite the norm in Amityville at the turn of the last century (1870's-1900's) with death pacts and suicide groups being the 'thing' to be into......so IF big IF there....that seance was at the original dwelling built there (112)...to me (a layman) would consider THAT to be the beginning of the 'events' of Amityville and possibly that neighborhood (poltergeist activity, strange sightings, etc) would sucuumb to it.

And that doesn't even consider the Native American presence before...........which from my studies into the Eastern Woodlands Tribes (East Coast/Shoreline) of New England and the coastal areas...being a hot spot for ages......

sorry for the long post...but as usual more questions than answers.... :fp:
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby Chichibcc » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:56 pm

eber3 wrote:
Indrid Cold wrote:I have squirrel slaying GI Joes running amuck in my neighborhood:



Well I have proof that the squirrels are fighting back.

Image

:lol: :lol:
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby shuan6427 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:32 pm

Thanks Dan for your long reply. My opinion ( and just my opinion ) is that people like Webber and Kaplan, etc have no more credibility than anyone else in the Amityville case. No more than George Lutz and the Warrens. I have not read Kaplan's conspiracy book, but others have said it by no means proves that AH is a hoax.

I have seen the interview with Peccararo, sure many posters here have. He seemed pretty convincing to me. He had no desire to become famous, he did not become rich due to his involvement with 112 Ocean Avenue.

As for the gunshots not being heard during that night in Nov 1974, yes, maybe there is a plausible , rational explanation for that. However, the noise would have been extemely loud. Yes, maybe someone did hear it, they may have though it was on the street, or did not want to get involved.
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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Postby devilbustedinct » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:56 am

To Dan's post which I won't quote.

Some great info Dan, not that I haven't learned all this from you from your prior posts, but it is always good to be refreshed and you do that every time.
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