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Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:21 am
by sherbetbizarre
Tisha wrote:Do you know if they collaborated with Jones on the sequels?
Initially yes... then apparently Jones ran off with ALL the profits and wrote the latter ones on his own, based on George's materials.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:59 pm
by costerluver
I have no idea what to think. I used to be pretty pro hoax, then after reading the book, browsing the forums and watching interviews with the Lutzes I became more pro haunting. Then I read that article with Michael Linder and I became a little more pro hoax. Then I thought it over again and I'm now in the middle, waiting for more evidence for both sides.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:13 pm
by Tim
Chichibcc wrote:Unsolved Mysteries did a pretty good, thorough segment on Kurt Cobain's death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_I0_4Lu ... re=related
There WAS a doc. on this subject called...Kurt and Courtney...I think but was pulled from Blockbuster video after the release. I remember the "original" hitman(Ed Duce) had renounced his dedication to murder Kurt, and was was later to have been found...pushed from behind onto an on oncoming train!D.O.A.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:33 am
by surferguy72
deliveranceminister wrote:Im curious . How many of you think that Amityville House on Ocean Avenue is haunted? Do you think the demons in that house caused the deaths of the Defeo family ? I think so.

http://www.HauntedHouseBuster.com
That would be a good question for TAPS.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:03 pm
by Grim_Reaper
ok now that i have all four books in front of me heres what it says for copyrights

The Amityville Horror by Jay Anson, George Lee Lutz and Kathleen Lutz
The Amityville Horror II (jan 1982) by Paul Kimatian, John G Jones, Kathleen Lutz and George Lutz *
Amityville: the Final Chapter (Jan 1985) by John G Jones, Kathleen Lutz and George Lutz *
Amityville: the Horror Returns (Jan 1989) By John G Jones and George Lee Lutz

* Inside Title Page of these books has 'Based on the story of George and Kathleen Luts' either above or below the title

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:29 am
by Fnord
I don't believe the house on Ocean Avenue was/is 'haunted'.

I don't either believe that the Lutzes were liars.

After years of research about 'the paranormal' and/or 'the supernormal' I've come to the determination that it is largely too difficult to quantify because the base of experience is too broad and the variables so vast that duplication of experience (if not discarded) is nigh impossible.

I suspect that the fabric of reality is perhaps somewhat wider than what can normally be perceived by the five human senses. A simple example of this might be illustrated by a dog whistle. If one were to blow into it in a crowded street perhaps one in a hundred might be able to hear it. The other 99, had they never been exposed to a dog whistle before, might conclude that the whistle simply doesn't make noise at all.

In this same spirit (please excuse my pun), it's possible that the Lutzes were very anxious about their purchase, about starting a new life together and about buying a house with a horrible reputation. Anxiety can breed a hyper vigilant and or hyper aware state of mind because anxiety is born of fear. Who's to say what those people could or could not experience in a highly attuned state?

I can sweep most cases of 'hauntings' right into the dustpan. For 30 years I haven't been able to completely discredit this one (not for lack of trying).

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:53 pm
by Franklin Bronner
Fnord wrote:I don't believe the house on Ocean Avenue was/is 'haunted'. After years of research about 'the paranormal' and/or 'the supernormal' I've come to the determination that it is largely too difficult to quantify because the base of experience is too broad and the variables so vast that duplication of experience (if not discarded) is nigh impossible.
I'm sorry, I just can't take anyone who bears the Aleister Crowley/Anton LaVey symbol of store-brand satanism seriously.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:56 pm
by Fnord
Were you making a response to something specific that I said or is it normal practice here to personally attack new members?

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:57 pm
by Franklin Bronner
Fnord wrote:Were you making a response to something specific that I said or is it normal practice here to personally attack new members?
I'm not attacking you, bro. I'm just saying.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:01 pm
by Fnord
Seems like you haven't said much.

How about any response to the thoughts I've posted on the subject?

Take me seriously or don't. It's of no consequence to me.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:03 pm
by Franklin Bronner
Fnord wrote:Seems like you haven't said much.

How about any response to the thoughts I've posted on the subject?

Take me seriously or don't. It's of no consequence to me.
Nope, I'm done. Just getting that out there in the open. Here's some guinea pigs...

Image

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:23 pm
by Fnord
SpudsyDog wrote:
Nope, I'm done. Just getting that out there in the open.
I might borrow your own graphic then and suggest that you've added nothing to the discussion in attempting to derail the thread by calling me out.

Image

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:44 pm
by Dan the Damned
Well I will welcome you to the board. Welcome.

I agree with everything you said, except the part about the Lutzes. Not to say I disagree with that -- it may be correct, but I just don't know...

But when it comes to the paranormal in general, my sense is that what some people see as "demons" and "ghosts" and whatnot may simply be some force of nature that we just don't understand yet, and are misreading/mislabeling.

I am very skeptical when it comes to ghosts, and that is how I attempt to reconcile my belief in the Lutzes' story with my disbelief in ghosts...

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:56 pm
by Fnord
Dan the Damned wrote:Well I will welcome you to the board. Welcome.
Thank you Sir, you're a gentleman!
Dan the Damned wrote:I agree with everything you said, except the part about the Lutzes. Not to say I disagree with that -- it may be correct, but I just don't know...

But when it comes to the paranormal in general, my sense is that what some people see as "demons" and "ghosts" and whatnot may simply be some force of nature that we just don't understand yet, and are misreading/mislabeling.

I am very skeptical when it comes to ghosts, and that is how I attempt to reconcile my belief in the Lutzes' story with my disbelief in ghosts...
I think we're essentially on the same page.

I say that I don't think the Lutzes were liars because I give some weight to my personal read of people, for lack of a better term. Also, there is the matter of the lie detector tests as well as the balance factor of a 'money making scheme' being heavily tipped against success from the beginning. These are the things that continually bring me to circuitous thought on this case. How could Lutz have known or even suspected that he would and/or could make enough money from the onset to make it all worthwhile?

I agree with your assessment of 'ghosts' and 'demons' as well and would only add that it's possible that these things, in the larger balance, are entirely explainable if examined correctly.

There are a few cases though, such as this one... :think:

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:29 pm
by Dan the Damned
Gotcha. But I just don't feel that an acute sense of anxiety and fear could explain away everything they claim to have experienced. And that's a shame, because otherwise it would be a great explanation. I have considered that possibility before. At the moment I can't remember my exact reasoning for abandoning that idea, but certain things didn't seem to fit the idea that it was all in their heads. Things like their dog cowering from the red room and the priest being slapped without the family's knowledge. Both Kathy and George seeing the red eyes at the same time, not to mention the levitations. Having some friends over for dinner and everyone hearing footsteps from above. Stuff like that.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:34 pm
by surferguy72
what about the part where Kathys brother loses his money in the house?George says hell write a check. :think:

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:37 pm
by surferguy72
That part was never mentioned in the book.neither was the scene with the hobo sniffing around the door. :think:

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:49 pm
by Grim_Reaper
well ive been reading HAns Holzer's 'Murder in Amityville' ad it presents some interesting views on what may have happened in the DeFeo Case. he claims that Butch may be a psychic. not like 'oracle of delphi' level but a rather low level like someone that ocasionally gets a premonition that sometign is going to happen. the fact that he said that he needed to leave teh house because 'he would kill everyone'' could be taken as such a premonition. and according to HH a phychic is open to being possesed by spirits of the departed. (apperantly a requirement)

also he brought a 'Medium' into the house (alegedly without her knowing about what happened there and not even knowing what town she was taken too) who described events that happened in that house and even before the house was built. in particular an Indian Chief's grave being discovered. (identified as a chief for his skeleton being found standing up in the gound). alegedly it is this Chiefs spiritthat is angered against all of the 'white men' as he sees them all as evil (for it was 'white man that desecrated his grave (boy found teh skul and played with it like a footbal)) forther the medium indicated that it wasnt teh chief that dies teh actual possesing but rater gives teh rders. the one doing the actual possesion is described as being a 'slope jawed indian'.

if true it can explain why others may not have had problems after the lutzes (beyond the house being 'cleansed' after the Lutzes) as no one since was phychic enough to be open to possesion. i guess its possible the Transendental Meditation did the same for the Lutzes

another thing that gets mentioned is that photos were taken (a Poloroid camera was used) of the various rooms in teh house (this being after teh Lutzes furniture was gone) and in the rooms where the murders occured there was a 'halo' effect in the photo where the bullets entered teh DeFeos body in teh room. (Ive sen these printed in an older edition of 'Murder in Amityville'. One im currently reading is an Omnibus with 2 other Holzer books included but no photos)

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:13 pm
by sherbetbizarre
surferguy72 wrote:That part was never mentioned in the book.neither was the scene with the hobo sniffing around the door. :think:
In reality it was a cheque that went missing, not cash. The "hobo" story is true also.

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:18 pm
by Grim_Reaper
sherbetbizarre wrote:
surferguy72 wrote:That part was never mentioned in the book.neither was the scene with the hobo sniffing around the door. :think:
In reality it was a cheque that went missing, not cash. The "hobo" story is true also.
im pretty sure it was cash in the book. somethign about the Caterer would accept a check and George wrote a check the replace the missing cash which the Caterer begrudgingly accepted and it later bounced

never heard about the Hobo

Re: I'm curious How many of you think Amityville Is Haunted

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:07 pm
by Franklin Bronner
Fnord wrote:
I might borrow your own graphic then and suggest that you've added nothing to the discussion in attempting to derail the thread by calling me out.

Image
Touché, sir. Touché.

Except that this topic was bringing something to the table, but my particular post in said topic brought nothing in particular-- which makes your use of my graphic irrelevant, redundant and pointless.
GOOD DAY, SIR. :dance: