Stigmatized Property

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sherbetbizarre
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Stigmatized Property

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:56 pm

Interesting article...
Contact your state’s regulatory agency/real estate commission to see if you’re required to disclose this because you could be spooked by a lawsuit if you don’t. The case that led to a change in New York’s housing law — and, ultimately, set the precedent that hauntings affect valuations and should therefore be disclosed — dates back to 1991. That’s when the New York Supreme Court ruled that the would-be purchaser of a Victorian home in Nyack, New York, be reimbursed his down payment and released from his contract. Why? The seller, who had written articles about the presence of poltergeists in her abode, had failed to make note the unwanted tenants on the sales contract.
http://blogs.reuters.com/deep-pocket/20 ... ted-house/

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csullivan
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by csullivan » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:29 pm

in my own opinion..i dont think a realtor is going to say ..oh and by the way there were some gruesome murders that hapened here..hard to sell a house that way (well for me anyway and i would never live in a home if i knew anyone had died there violently or not..iam real sensitive to these kind of things) ...however if the person wanting to buy the home asks if anyone has died in the home and the realtor knows they need to let the home buyer know ...i read the first part to this link and it just sounded to me like these people were looking for the paranormal

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Sweet Zuni
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by Sweet Zuni » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:38 pm

I would want to know before I purchased the home. If it had someone die in it, I wouldn't want to buy it. That would be too creepy for me!! :shock:

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:56 pm


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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri May 11, 2012 5:44 pm

Could you be buying a house where someone was shot and killed?

You found your dream home, but there may be something left off of that disclosure report. By law, real estate agents don't have to tell you if a house is considered "haunted" or if there's been extreme violence in the house, including murder.

CBS 21 has more on why it is buyer beware when it comes to paranormal pasts.

A disclosure document for a home being sold must report any type of water damage, any leaks, even if a pet has lived in the home, it must be reported.

However, if a death happened in the home, by law a seller doesn't need to put that on this disclosure. If a house is believed to be haunted, it doesn't need to be reported.

In fact real estate agents say a death, a murder, a murder suicide, even a haunting are all questions that need to come from the buyer.

“I said the devil lives here, I'd have it blessed, the devil is possessed,” stated a woman.

For some, the mere thought of a murder means the house is stigmatized and damaged.

A sense that bad spirits live on in the home where someone met a tragic fate. For many images of the Amityville Horror House come to mind. Spirits and ghosts haunting those trying to forget a tragic situation.
More and video at

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/C ... VWWvA.cspx

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Tim
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by Tim » Sat May 12, 2012 2:50 am

csullivan wrote:in my own opinion..i dont think a realtor is going to say ..oh and by the way there were some gruesome murders that hapened here..hard to sell a house that way (well for me anyway and i would never live in a home if i knew anyone had died there violently or not..iam real sensitive to these kind of things) ...however if the person wanting to buy the home asks if anyone has died in the home and the realtor knows they need to let the home buyer know ...i read the first part to this link and it just sounded to me like these people were looking for the paranormal





I don't think I'd buy a house CSullivan was selling, would you?
"Things of this nature happen quite frequently,and when they happen to families, they usually close the door and they don't talk about it; and unless these things are talked about, they'll never be understood." - Kathy Lutz

Victoria Principles
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon May 14, 2012 5:46 am

Tim wrote:
csullivan wrote:in my own opinion..i dont think a realtor is going to say ..oh and by the way there were some gruesome murders that hapened here..hard to sell a house that way (well for me anyway and i would never live in a home if i knew anyone had died there violently or not..iam real sensitive to these kind of things) ...however if the person wanting to buy the home asks if anyone has died in the home and the realtor knows they need to let the home buyer know ...i read the first part to this link and it just sounded to me like these people were looking for the paranormal





I don't think I'd buy a house CSullivan was selling, would you?
Would be interesting. Wonder what a house owned by Cybil would look like.

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t00nCiNaToR
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu May 24, 2012 6:43 am

In Canada the realotor does not have to divulge the fact that people were murdered at a home unless specifically asked.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Mix1
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by Mix1 » Mon May 28, 2012 9:49 am

When it come to previous serious crimes that may have been in commited in thue property i would like and think that the information should be disclosed.
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sherbetbizarre
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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:42 pm

Is it legal to sell a haunted house?

Everyone has heard of that house in their neighborhood that is suppose to be haunted, the question is "if the house was declared haunted, is it illegal to sell it?"

In short, No. However, if you are aware of things that have occurred in your house in the past that might affect its sale, you may be legally obligated to report them to potential buyers.

A landmark case on haunted real estate is Stambovsky v. Ackley, which was decided by the New York Supreme Court, Appellate Division in 1991. Helen Ackley and her family had reported the existence of ghosts in their home in Nyack, N.Y. The house was featured on a haunted house tour and had been written about in articles in a local newspaper and in Reader’s Digest. However, when a New York City man, Jerry Stambovsky, decided to buy the house, neither the Ackleys nor their realtor told him about the house’s ghosts.

He made a down payment on the property, but when he found out about the spirits, he asked to have the contract rescinded. The court ruled that, “as a matter of law,” the haunting of the house had been established when the owners publicized their ghost stories. Since Ackley had informed the general public about her house’s supernatural occurrences, she owed as much to the buyer. The court told Stambovsky that he could rescind the contract of sale.

When does an owner have to reveal information that might influence the sale of their property?

Guidelines vary from state to state. In Florida, for example, “The fact that a property was, or was at any time suspected to have been, the site of a homicide, suicide, or death is not a material fact that must be disclosed in a real estate transaction.”

Massachusetts law addresses hauntings in particular: “The fact or suspicion that real property may be or is psychologically impacted shall not be deemed to be a material fact required to be disclosed in a real estate transaction. “Psychologically impacted” shall mean an impact being the result of facts or suspicions including, but not limited to, the following: … that the real property has been the site of an alleged parapsychological or supernatural phenomenon.

If you have questions about selling your property, you should consult a lawyer. If you’re concerned about property you’d like to buy, a little research may be in order. Haunted houses often have a reputation in the town where they’re located, so local residents can be a great resource. Some haunted spots, like the Ackley house in New York, may have even been written about in local or national publications.

What is stigmatized property?

Stigmatized property is real estate that might not be desirable to buyers or tenants for reasons unrelated to the physical condition of the building or land. Haunted houses fall into the category of stigmatized property, as do dwellings where murders or suicides have occurred.

A famous example is house in Amityville, New York where Robert DeFeo Jr. murdered his family in 1974. The next family to live there was reportedly driven from their home by evil spirits and told their story in the 1977 nonfiction book “The Amityville Horror,” which was turned in a blockbuster movie.

What’s the best way to sell a haunted house?

Even if the law says you don’t have to talk about your house’s supernatural history, it might be best to share the information anyway, according to Realtor Mag, the official publication of the National Association of Realtors. In particular, you should report objects moving on their own, hearing voices when no one else is around and seeing odd lights, the magazine says.

Who would buy a haunted house?

At least a third of the population, according to an October 2012 survey conducted by Realtor.com. Thirty-two percent of respondents said yes, they would consider buying a haunted house. An additional 33 percent said that they might think about it.

And of those surveyed, a full 2 percent said they would pay more than market value for a house that was considered haunted. Of course, everyone else would expect to pay less for the property—as much as 51+ percent less than the market value.
http://www.foxreno.com/news/news/local/ ... use/nStMN/

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Re: How to sell a haunted house

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:47 pm

Meanwhile, in Philadelphia
Home sellers can keep murders, suicides secret

Planning on buying a house this year?

If you're even slightly squeamish, get ready to do some extra detective work.

If the property was the site of bloody crime, the seller does not have to divulge that scrap of information.

In a decision handed up in Pennsylvania last week, a panel of Superior Court judges reaffirmed that the sordid reputation of a home - no matter how gruesome - does not count as "material defect" and does not have to be disclosed to the buyer.

"The fact that a murder once occurred in a house falls into that category of homebuyer concerns best left to caveat emptor" - let the buyer beware, the court wrote.

For those of you shopping on the other side of the Delaware River, the same rules apply in New Jersey.

Janet S. Milliken bought a 14-year-old Delaware County McMansion in 2007 from Kathleen and Joseph Jacono. The Jaconos had spent $450,000 to buy the Thornton property at auction in April and flipped it, selling it to Milliken in August for $610,000, according to court records.

In September, Milliken learned her new home had been the site of a murder-suicide the previous year.

Police said three children were in the house on a cold February morning when Konstantinos Koumboulis, 50, shot his wife, Georgia Koumboulis, 34, and then turned the gun on himself. The children were not physically harmed. According to the court decision, the Jaconos and their real estate agents, Re/Max, knew about the home's lurid history. They called the state Real Estate Commission who assured them that they were not required to disclose that information.

Milliken sued, arguing that she never would have bought the house if she had been aware of the grisly crime. Brokers often consider homes that have been the scene of a murder or suicide as "stigmatized." The term also encompasses the belief that a house might be haunted by ghosts.

Milliken asserted that the damage to the house was as real as any structural defect because the crime diminished the value of the property.

In a dissenting opinion to last week's decision, Superior Court Judge John T. Bender acknowledged that Milliken had suffered a six-figure loss.

Said Bender: "The financial penalty Mrs. Milliken has suffered was entirely avoidable had the sellers whom she bought her home merely exercised a little more integrity and a little less greed."

The upshot to Milliken v. Jacono et al: If living within a former crime scene would keep you from a night's sleep, ask for a written warranty in the agreement of sale that states the home was never the site of a murder, suicide or other felony.

It also couldn't hurt to ask questions around the neighborhood, such as, "That house have any local nicknames? You know, like, the Amityville Horror?"
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/break ... ecret.html

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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by kathyM » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:40 pm

What about apartments that people rent?

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BooshaGirl
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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by BooshaGirl » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:32 am

kathyM wrote:What about apartments that people rent?
Yeah..what about that? I know a guy who blew his stupid brains out in his apartment...I wonder if the building manager must tell. Also, my grandmother died in the house in which I grew up. Died right there in her rocking chair. Her teeth fell out and everything before the cops finally came (to rule out foul play) and then the funeral home picked her up. She wouldn't haunt anybody, though. Woman could barely speak English.

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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:46 pm

Wonder if the movie house is stigmatized? It's been for sale for a while and many think it's DeFeo/Lutz house when there was no haunting allegations there.

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BooshaGirl
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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by BooshaGirl » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:07 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:Wonder if the movie house is stigmatized? It's been for sale for a while and many think it's DeFeo/Lutz house when there was no haunting allegations there.
I think they're just charging too much...but it COULD be stigmatized. I'd rather live in the REAL house. Then again, I've never seen the movie house in person--maybe the neighborhood and school system is better there. Hmmmm.

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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:34 am

BooshaGirl wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:Wonder if the movie house is stigmatized? It's been for sale for a while and many think it's DeFeo/Lutz house when there was no haunting allegations there.
I think they're just charging too much...but it COULD be stigmatized. I'd rather live in the REAL house. Then again, I've never seen the movie house in person--maybe the neighborhood and school system is better there. Hmmmm.

The movie house has a real front yard, a big one as you can see from the movie. The house itself appears to be smaller than the Amityville house,

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BooshaGirl
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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by BooshaGirl » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:46 am

Yeah Victoria..I like the way the "real" house has been restored, as well. I like the color AND location better. I don't mind a small front yard--the BACK is huge...lots of room to reinstall a pool or for the kids/dog to run around. If I lived in that house, I'm sure I'd want my chidlren to play in the backyard. It's all pipe-dream, though--I'm never going to move to Long Island unless I win the lottery. Fat chance, eh?

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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:19 am

BooshaGirl wrote:Yeah Victoria..I like the way the "real" house has been restored, as well. I like the color AND location better. I don't mind a small front yard--the BACK is huge...lots of room to reinstall a pool or for the kids/dog to run around. If I lived in that house, I'm sure I'd want my chidlren to play in the backyard. It's all pipe-dream, though--I'm never going to move to Long Island unless I win the lottery. Fat chance, eh?

If I won the lottery, Long Island would not be a place I would want to live. Just sort of sterile without much character, except for eastern LI like the Hamptons. Everything is flat, all the neighborhoods are basically cookie cutter designs. You wouldn't even know what town you are in unless you see the name of the municiapality on a road sign.

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BooshaGirl
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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by BooshaGirl » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:49 am

Right. I couldn't distinguish them when I was on the LIRR (Long Island Rail Road), but then I've only been twice. I saw nice neighborhoods and some dodgy ones on Long Island. I think I'd only be able to afford to live in Queens (Archie Bunker land!), though--or Staten Island. Forget it. I like Michigan. Much bigger homes and fresh water for less! I complain about MY property taxes, but my friend in Bellmore pays like $12,000 per year! CRAZY! I don't know about New Jersey. The only place I've ever been in New Jersey was Atlantic City--and that was back in like 1985 when I was still a teenager.

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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:58 pm

BooshaGirl wrote:Right. I couldn't distinguish them when I was on the LIRR (Long Island Rail Road), but then I've only been twice. I saw nice neighborhoods and some dodgy ones on Long Island. I think I'd only be able to afford to live in Queens (Archie Bunker land!), though--or Staten Island. Forget it. I like Michigan. Much bigger homes and fresh water for less! I complain about MY property taxes, but my friend in Bellmore pays like $12,000 per year! CRAZY! I don't know about New Jersey. The only place I've ever been in New Jersey was Atlantic City--and that was back in like 1985 when I was still a teenager.


New Jersey has even higher property taxes. Many people move to Pennsylvania where almost everything is cheaper.

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Jacob Sterling
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Re: Stigmatized Property

Post by Jacob Sterling » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:18 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:
BooshaGirl wrote:Right. I couldn't distinguish them when I was on the LIRR (Long Island Rail Road), but then I've only been twice. I saw nice neighborhoods and some dodgy ones on Long Island. I think I'd only be able to afford to live in Queens (Archie Bunker land!), though--or Staten Island. Forget it. I like Michigan. Much bigger homes and fresh water for less! I complain about MY property taxes, but my friend in Bellmore pays like $12,000 per year! CRAZY! I don't know about New Jersey. The only place I've ever been in New Jersey was Atlantic City--and that was back in like 1985 when I was still a teenager.


New Jersey has even higher property taxes. Many people move to Pennsylvania where almost everything is cheaper.
I can vouch for the things being cheaper in Pennsylvania, because I live there-- but there is nothing quite like the Wildwood shore in New Jersey. Every time I go there, every penny I spend on the boardwalk is worth it, no matter how grotesquely overpriced. I think that the Wildwood Boardwalk may be my favorite place in the world, my own Heaven on Earth.
Sometimes I drink more than I need to, until the TV's dead and gone. I may be lonely-- but I'm never alone, and the night may pass me by, but I never cry.
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