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Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:38 pm
by gd134
I've been examining the Amityville Horror franchise for 2 and a half years now. The thing that interests me most about the Amityville case are the murders. After 45 years, there are still a tone of questions that need to be answered about the murders. I used to believe that Butch Defeo acted alone, but as I read books and researched different perspectives from many authors I have become quite skeptical of the original story. It is most likely that Dawn Defeo(18), was an accomplice with Ronnie since her body was in substantially better shape and less decayed than the other victims, which could possibly mean two things: 1.) her death took place at a later time, and 2.) her involvement in the murders. This fact has piqued my curiosity for quite some time now. So therefore, I have decided to submit a Freedom of Information Law request to the Suffolk County Police Department for any post-mortem pictures of the victims and an autopsy report for Dawn Defeo. Was this a good decision? Has anyone ever tried this before and what results did you receive? Let me know what you think about this.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:24 pm
by msmart112
Let me know what you think about this.
I think you need to consult a psychiatrist.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:57 pm
by gd134
msmart112 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:24 pm
Let me know what you think about this.
I think you need to consult a psychiatrist.
I think you need to give a more appropriate response. I knew you would definitely be the first one to respond with a criticism lol. After all, it's literally the only reason you ever comment.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:12 am
by Buick - 1975
gd134 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:38 pm
I have decided to submit a Freedom of Information Law request to the Suffolk County Police Department for any post-mortem pictures of the victims and an autopsy report for Dawn Defeo. Was this a good decision? Has anyone ever tried this before and what results did you receive? Let me know what you think about this.
The only way to get the autopsy reports is if you are a relative.
The way people have managed to get post-mortem pictures was when DeFeo gave them power of attorney.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:27 am
by gd134
Buick - 1975 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:12 am
gd134 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:38 pm
I have decided to submit a Freedom of Information Law request to the Suffolk County Police Department for any post-mortem pictures of the victims and an autopsy report for Dawn Defeo. Was this a good decision? Has anyone ever tried this before and what results did you receive? Let me know what you think about this.
The only way to get the autopsy reports is if you are a relative.
The way people have managed to get post-mortem pictures was when DeFeo gave them power of attorney.
Wow. I guess I might have to appeal the decision if the medical examiner rejects my FOIL request. Hoping for the best.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:15 pm
by Buick - 1975
Yes good luck. Would be great if you somehow managed to get them.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:18 pm
by gd134
Buick - 1975 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:15 pm
Yes good luck. Would be great if you somehow managed to get them.
I would like to show my gratitude for you being respectful to me, unlike Msmart112. I appreciate it. :D

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:42 pm
by msmart112
gd134 wrote:I think you need to give a more appropriate response.
OK...how about some questions?
gd134 wrote:I used to believe that Butch Defeo acted alone, but as I read books and researched different perspectives from many authors I have become quite skeptical of the original story.
Which books did you read...and who were these MANY authors?

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:31 pm
by gd134
msmart112 wrote: Which books did you read...and who were these MANY authors?

I read The Amityville Horror by Jay Anson(audiobook), The Night the Defeos Died by Ric Osuna, High Hopes by Gerard Sullivan, and I looked at other stuff from Hans Holzer and George Lutz. I've spent a long time looking at the Amityville Murders, and like any other person in their right mind, I question the original story since some stuff didn't add up. Go ahead and criticize my intelligence or credibility like you always do, I'm prepared to answer your questions.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:35 pm
by msmart112
gd134 wrote:I've spent a long time looking at the Amityville Murders, and like any other person in their right mind, I question the original story since some stuff didn't add up.
So those who don't question the original story aren't in their right mind?

That's pretty critical coming from someone who whines about people being critical. :roll:

Anyway...the original story is that Ronnie killed his family. Ronnie confessed to the police...and even told them where they could find the evidence that he had discarded in the Brooklyn storm drain. At trial...Ronnie made a judicial confession and said that he had killed them all. Not some of them...but all of them. Four years later when interviewed by Hans Holzer...Ronnie once again said that he had killed them all with no help.

So what do you believe (in your right mind) doesn't "add up"?

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:47 pm
by NoDice
For f*cks sake! Dawn didn't carry out the killings with Butch. Like her parents and younger siblings, she was a VICTIM on that tragic night. Stop believing the lies that have been made over the years. It's so dissrepectful. :wall:

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:54 pm
by gd134
NoDice wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:47 pm
For f*cks sake! Dawn didn't carry out the killings with Butch. Like her parents and younger siblings, she was a VICTIM on that tragic night. Stop believing the lies that have been made over the years. It's so dissrepectful. :wall:
So you want me to just ignore the circumstances of the murders which have brought up a bunch of unanswered questions over the years and believe that Ronnie committed the murders himself? I don't think so. Also, it's not disrespectful to accuse a "victim" of being involved in a crime. Just because a person is a murdered victim doesn't mean they weren't involved in a crime.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:53 pm
by msmart112
gd134 wrote:So you want me to just ignore the circumstances of the murders which have brought up a bunch of unanswered questions over the years and believe that Ronnie committed the murders himself?
What are these bunch of unanswered questions?

Ronnie confessed to the police...and even told them where they could find the evidence that he had discarded in the Brooklyn storm drain. At trial...Ronnie made a judicial confession and said that he had killed them all. Not some of them...but all of them. Four years later when interviewed by Hans Holzer...Ronnie once again said that he had killed them all with no help.

Again...what are these bunch of unanswered questions?

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:15 am
by gd134
msmart112 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:53 pm
gd134 wrote:So you want me to just ignore the circumstances of the murders which have brought up a bunch of unanswered questions over the years and believe that Ronnie committed the murders himself?
What are these bunch of unanswered questions?

Ronnie confessed to the police...and even told them where they could find the evidence that he had discarded in the Brooklyn storm drain. At trial...Ronnie made a judicial confession and said that he had killed them all. Not some of them...but all of them. Four years later when interviewed by Hans Holzer...Ronnie once again said that he had killed them all with no help.

Again...what are these bunch of unanswered questions?
Here they are:

1.) How did Ronnie manage to kill them all without anyone, but maybe the parents and allison, fully waking up? How come Dawn never woke up, considering she being the last person to be killed?

2.) Why were the bodies all faced down, and why were Ronnie SR, Marc Defeo, and John Defeo all uncovered(no blanket)? I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't find sleeping with my face faced down and my arms extended above or below my head comfortable at all.

3.) Why were Allison and Dawn's headboards and walls clean as a whistle, despite all the brain matter and blood that a bullet can cause to splatter?

4.) Why was Dawn's body not as decayed as the other bodies at the time police discovered the crime scene? I'm pretty sure there is a post about this, so I know it's true.

5.) How come none of the neighbors, but only one(Diane Ireland I believe), heard the gunshots? As a person who has an abundant amount of knowledge about the way houses are built, I know that it is impossible for a 100 year-old house to be sound proof, considering that houses built in the 1920s-1940s had little to no insulation in the walls. Even modern houses with soundproofing technology lack the ability to soundproof a gunshot, or even a car passing by.

All of these circumstances suggest that there might have been an accomplice, or perhaps a second weapon that supports the same caliber bullets, that was used in the commission of the crime. As for Ronnie confession, I'm pretty sure that he was pressured to do it, either for mental insanity or "haunting/possession" claims to gain attention or be exonerated. It is clear to me that Ronnie maybe did not want to expose his accomplice, or he just doesn't remember. In the end, the story still remains unsolvable, at least to me and a whole bunch of people. I tried developing many scenarios to this story, but none of them support the idea of Ronnie doing it himself.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:31 am
by shane2801
I have to say GD134 you definately have some good points.

I have always taken it as gospel that Ronnie did it all. The only thing I have also questioned is why didn't anybody wake up and why didn't anybody hear gunshots. I wasn't aware that Mrs Ireland heard them until your post.

Your thread has really made me think again about this.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:06 pm
by jimmysmokes
Yep, Gd134 makes some good points here. I could go through them but will offer the most piece of damming evidence for this (these) questions.

The medical examiner testified that he didn't see how Ronnie could've have done it all himself!

Big Boy Gerald Sullivan didn't like that answer and quickly changed the line of questioning. :clap: In any case, it was on the record. So, for people who want to enter into this territory, food for thought...

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:04 pm
by msmart112
gd134 wrote:1.) How did Ronnie manage to kill them all without anyone, but maybe the parents and allison, fully waking up? How come Dawn never woke up, considering she being the last person to be killed?
He killed them in the middle of the night when they would have been in deep sleep. If Dawn didn't wake up...it could have been because she was in deep sleep...the murders happening very quickly...or both.
gd134 wrote:2.) Why were the bodies all faced down, and why were Ronnie SR, Marc Defeo, and John Defeo all uncovered(no blanket)? I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't find sleeping with my face faced down and my arms extended above or below my head comfortable at all.
I sleep with my face down and with my arms extended above my head... maybe they slept like I do?
gd134 wrote:3.) Why were Allison and Dawn's headboards and walls clean as a whistle, despite all the brain matter and blood that a bullet can cause to splatter?
Both shots were from a very powerful weapon...and the trajectory was DOWNWARD...hence the reason why brain matter and blood went DOWN (and not up).
gd134 wrote:4.) Why was Dawn's body not as decayed as the other bodies at the time police discovered the crime scene? I'm pretty sure there is a post about this, so I know it's true.
So because you're pretty sure that there is a post about this...you KNOW it's true? :roll:
gd134 wrote:5.) How come none of the neighbors, but only one(Diane Ireland I believe), heard the gunshots? As a person who has an abundant amount of knowledge about the way houses are built, I know that it is impossible for a 100 year-old house to be sound proof, considering that houses built in the 1920s-1940s had little to no insulation in the walls. Even modern houses with soundproofing technology lack the ability to soundproof a gunshot, or even a car passing by.
At the time of the murders...the neighbors would have been in deep sleep. And walls (even without insulation or soundproofing) would have kept the sound down. The only houses close to 112 Ocean Avenue would have been 106 Ocean Avenue and 120 Ocean Avenue. 106 was vacant at the time...and the only claim of anyone at 120 hearing anything came from Ric Osuna. He claimed that in 1999...Mrs. Ireland told him that she heard shots the night of the murders...but this is of course unsubstantiated.

BTW...Mrs. Ireland's name is Diana...not Diane. For some reason...Ric Osuna always liked to incorrectly refer to her as Diane.
gd134 wrote:All of these circumstances suggest that there might have been an accomplice, or perhaps a second weapon that supports the same caliber bullets, that was used in the commission of the crime.
How does anything that you wrote suggest that there was a second weapon that supported the same caliber bullets used in the commission of the crime?

The only other time that I've ever heard this ridiculuous claim was in Osuna's "book"...

"Since Kelske’s handgun was a Colt Python, it could fire both .357 Magnum and .38 special caliber bullets. But the police wanted to connect Butch with his own .38 caliber handgun."
gd134 wrote:In the end, the story still remains unsolvable, at least to me and a whole bunch of people. I tried developing many scenarios to this story, but none of them support the idea of Ronnie doing it himself.
The murders were solved in 1974. And it wasn't difficult...a fifth-grader with a junior detective kit could have done it.

And who are these "whole bunch" of people?

For what it's worth...Ryan Katzenbach was one of the staunchest believers in Ric Osuna's silly tale...and spent over ten years of his life and a LOT of money (not all of it his own) trying to put together a "film" depicting the murders where accomplices and a second gun were involved. In the end...he came to the conclusion that Ronnie had acted alone.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:16 am
by jimmysmokes
msmart112 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:04 pm
gd134 wrote:1.) How did Ronnie manage to kill them all without anyone, but maybe the parents and allison, fully waking up? How come Dawn never woke up, considering she being the last person to be killed?
He killed them in the middle of the night when they would have been in deep sleep. If Dawn didn't wake up...it could have been because she was in deep sleep...the murders happening very quickly...or both.
gd134 wrote:2.) Why were the bodies all faced down, and why were Ronnie SR, Marc Defeo, and John Defeo all uncovered(no blanket)? I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't find sleeping with my face faced down and my arms extended above or below my head comfortable at all.
I sleep with my face down and with my arms extended above my head... maybe they slept like I do?
gd134 wrote:3.) Why were Allison and Dawn's headboards and walls clean as a whistle, despite all the brain matter and blood that a bullet can cause to splatter?
Both shots were from a very powerful weapon...and the trajectory was DOWNWARD...hence the reason why brain matter and blood went DOWN (and not up).
gd134 wrote:4.) Why was Dawn's body not as decayed as the other bodies at the time police discovered the crime scene? I'm pretty sure there is a post about this, so I know it's true.
So because you're pretty sure that there is a post about this...you KNOW it's true? :roll:
gd134 wrote:5.) How come none of the neighbors, but only one(Diane Ireland I believe), heard the gunshots? As a person who has an abundant amount of knowledge about the way houses are built, I know that it is impossible for a 100 year-old house to be sound proof, considering that houses built in the 1920s-1940s had little to no insulation in the walls. Even modern houses with soundproofing technology lack the ability to soundproof a gunshot, or even a car passing by.
At the time of the murders...the neighbors would have been in deep sleep. And walls (even without insulation or soundproofing) would have kept the sound down. The only houses close to 112 Ocean Avenue would have been 106 Ocean Avenue and 120 Ocean Avenue. 106 was vacant at the time...and the only claim of anyone at 120 hearing anything came from Ric Osuna. He claimed that in 1999...Mrs. Ireland told him that she heard shots the night of the murders...but this is of course unsubstantiated.

BTW...Mrs. Ireland's name is Diana...not Diane. For some reason...Ric Osuna always liked to incorrectly refer to her as Diane.
gd134 wrote:All of these circumstances suggest that there might have been an accomplice, or perhaps a second weapon that supports the same caliber bullets, that was used in the commission of the crime.
How does anything that you wrote suggest that there was a second weapon that supported the same caliber bullets used in the commission of the crime?

The only other time that I've ever heard this ridiculuous claim was in Osuna's "book"...

"Since Kelske’s handgun was a Colt Python, it could fire both .357 Magnum and .38 special caliber bullets. But the police wanted to connect Butch with his own .38 caliber handgun."
gd134 wrote:In the end, the story still remains unsolvable, at least to me and a whole bunch of people. I tried developing many scenarios to this story, but none of them support the idea of Ronnie doing it himself.
The murders were solved in 1974. And it wasn't difficult...a fifth-grader with a junior detective kit could have done it.

And who are these "whole bunch" of people?

For what it's worth...Ryan Katzenbach was one of the staunchest believers in Ric Osuna's silly tale...and spent over ten years of his life and a LOT of money (not all of it his own) trying to put together a "film" depicting the murders where accomplices and a second gun were involved. In the end...he came to the conclusion that Ronnie had acted alone.
You side-stepped the medical examiner’s view!

And you seem to be under the impression that everyone on Ocean Avenue was in a deep sleep that night? You have any proof? A lot of people have insomnia or get up in the night. And do these deep sleepers hear their alarm clocks but sleep through high power gunshot blasts?

The Defeos woke up as did some of the neighbors! That’s well known. I would imagine that some of the kids got out of bed and were forced to get back in bed and shot in the face down positions they were in.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:48 pm
by gd134
msmart112 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:04 pm
msmart112 wrote:He killed them in the middle of the night when they would have been in deep sleep. If Dawn didn't wake up...it could have been because she was in deep sleep...the murders happening very quickly...or both.
Right... people who are in deep sleep wake up from the sound of an alarm clock but not loud gunshots?
msmart112 wrote:I sleep with my face down and with my arms extended above my head... maybe they slept like I do?
You sleep with your face flat on your pillow, to where you can barely breath? That's how half of the defeo's were sleeping.
msmart112 wrote:Both shots were from a very powerful weapon...and the trajectory was DOWNWARD...hence the reason why brain matter and blood went DOWN (and not up).
I'm not gonna even bother to refute this claim..... but I reiterate, Dawn and Allison's heads were INCHES away from their headboard. I would expect at least a little blood on the wall, yet the headboard and wall were clean as a whistle.
msmart112 wrote:So because you're pretty sure that there is a post about this...you KNOW it's true? :roll:
Yes, here is the link to it: http://amityvillefaq.com/truthboard/vie ... 3773&hilit
msmart112 wrote:How does anything that you wrote suggest that there was a second weapon that supported the same caliber bullets used in the commission of the crime?
Almost everything. Why wouldn't we consider the use of a second weapon in the crime's commission?
msmart112 wrote:The murders were solved in 1974. And it wasn't difficult...a fifth-grader with a junior detective kit could have done it.
Again, you seem to be ignoring the circumstances of this crime. Although Ronnie was convicted and sentenced in 1975, that doesn't mean the case is solved. Why do you think the Amityville Horror became so famous? It was mainly because of the murders. 45 years later, after writing tons of books and documentaries about the case, people still debate the murders to this day.
msmart112 wrote:And who are these "whole bunch" of people?
I'll let you answer that question yourself. These "whole bunch" of people are active on this board. In fact, a few of them are on this thread.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:57 pm
by gd134
jimmysmokes wrote:You side-stepped the medical examiner’s view!

And you seem to be under the impression that everyone on Ocean Avenue was in a deep sleep that night? You have any proof? A lot of people have insomnia or get up in the night. And do these deep sleepers hear their alarm clocks but sleep through high power gunshot blasts?

The Defeos woke up as did some of the neighbors! That’s well known. I would imagine that some of the kids got out of bed and were forced to get back in bed and shot in the face down positions they were in.
Exactly! I also used the alarm clock as an example.

Re: Freedom of Information Request for Autopsy Pictures

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:10 pm
by Buick - 1975
gd134 wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:57 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:You side-stepped the medical examiner’s view!

And you seem to be under the impression that everyone on Ocean Avenue was in a deep sleep that night? You have any proof? A lot of people have insomnia or get up in the night. And do these deep sleepers hear their alarm clocks but sleep through high power gunshot blasts?

The Defeos woke up as did some of the neighbors! That’s well known. I would imagine that some of the kids got out of bed and were forced to get back in bed and shot in the face down positions they were in.
Exactly! I also used the alarm clock as an example.
I noticed that Dawn's alarm was not set.