The Night of the Murders.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:22 pm

quotestheraven wrote:High Hopes is currently out of print, and the cost to get it used through Amazon is enough to put me off of trying to get it at this time.

So, it was at least 15 hours after the murders before the bodies were found? Somehow I hadn't ever put that together before. And there's no way to tell if Dawn was killed before or after the rest? Like maybe she was out at the time the others were killed, came home, and then was killed after she went to sleep? I'm just wondering how thorough of an autopsy was done on the kids since it was kind of obvious what they died of. Didn't someone say that nobody actually checked them to see if they were drugged - only the parents? Maybe the coroner determined the parents died around 3:15 am and decided that is what time they all died.
I would concede that most of the investigation was slip-shod. Just another murder in the eyes of the cops. People get shot and killed every day by members of their family - the DeFeos were nothing new. So, yes, they probably didn't do very thorough autopsies on the kids - figuring they were all killed within the same time frame.

I wish they could determine if Dawn was killed around the same time or later. That would clear up a lot of the mystery. If only Ronnie would just tell us already! Ron, your 15-minutes are up, man! Come clean - you got no reason anymore to be so secretive.

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:46 pm

I guess it would be possible to request all of the information from the Suffolk county court or coroner's office under the Freedom of Information Act, but other than idle curiosity - what's the point? I'd feel like kind of a ghoul.
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Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:53 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
quotestheraven wrote:High Hopes is currently out of print, and the cost to get it used through Amazon is enough to put me off of trying to get it at this time.

So, it was at least 15 hours after the murders before the bodies were found? Somehow I hadn't ever put that together before. And there's no way to tell if Dawn was killed before or after the rest? Like maybe she was out at the time the others were killed, came home, and then was killed after she went to sleep? I'm just wondering how thorough of an autopsy was done on the kids since it was kind of obvious what they died of. Didn't someone say that nobody actually checked them to see if they were drugged - only the parents? Maybe the coroner determined the parents died around 3:15 am and decided that is what time they all died.
I would concede that most of the investigation was slip-shod. Just another murder in the eyes of the cops. People get shot and killed every day by members of their family - the DeFeos were nothing new. So, yes, they probably didn't do very thorough autopsies on the kids - figuring they were all killed within the same time frame.

I wish they could determine if Dawn was killed around the same time or later. That would clear up a lot of the mystery. If only Ronnie would just tell us already! Ron, your 15-minutes are up, man! Come clean - you got no reason anymore to be so secretive.

No Jacob, this type of things does not occur everyday, espcially in a small village like Amityville or Suffolk County. :fp: These murders were headlines in the New York media and in newspapers across the country. Do you have any training to say that they did not do through autopsies?

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:03 am

Victoria Principles wrote: No Jacob, this type of things does not occur everyday, espcially in a small village like Amityville or Suffolk County. :fp: These murders were headlines in the New York media and in newspapers across the country. Do you have any training to say that they did not do through autopsies?
Do you have any training to not reply or comment on my posts? (Guess not.) Apparently, by this time, you do not grasp the fact that every reply you post is negative and contrary. You cannot help yourself.

Was there NOT the photograph of "the 7th body" that was taken not very far from Amityville, where they thought it was one of the children? Victoria, you need to open up your eyes to what the world is, and the world produces more than its share of murders in a single day, particularily in New York. Suffolk County is no exception to this, nor is Long Island immune to it.

It was headlines for a day, because it was a shocking murder, but a lot of shocking murders make headlines for a day.

And don't worry your little head whether i have trainings in autopies. What you don't know could fill a book, and believe me - that book would never sell. The title of the book would be "BORING."

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:37 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: No Jacob, this type of things does not occur everyday, espcially in a small village like Amityville or Suffolk County. :fp: These murders were headlines in the New York media and in newspapers across the country. Do you have any training to say that they did not do through autopsies?
Do you have any training to not reply or comment on my posts? (Guess not.) Apparently, by this time, you do not grasp the fact that every reply you post is negative and contrary. You cannot help yourself.

Was there NOT the photograph of "the 7th body" that was taken not very far from Amityville, where they thought it was one of the children? Victoria, you need to open up your eyes to what the world is, and the world produces more than its share of murders in a single day, particularily in New York. Suffolk County is no exception to this, nor is Long Island immune to it.

It was headlines for a day, because it was a shocking murder, but a lot of shocking murders make headlines for a day.

And don't worry your little head whether i have trainings in autopies. What you don't know could fill a book, and believe me - that book would never sell. The title of the book would be "BORING."
Jacob, these murders were headlines for days. The one person who thought there was a 7th body was Ric Osuna, not the police or investigators. Thanks for showing your ignorance once more. :roll:


It takes more than watching episodes of Quincy or NCIS to have trainings in autopsies, Jacob. Too bad that is the extent to your trainings.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:56 am

Victoria Principles wrote: Jacob, these murders were headlines for days. The one person who thought there was a 7th body was Ric Osuna, not the police or investigators. Thanks for showing your ignorance once more. :roll:

It takes more than watching episodes of Quincy or NCIS to have trainings in autopsies, Jacob. Too bad that is the extent to your trainings.
Oh, and you're the resident expert on autopsies. Listen, if we ever got the word as to whether Dawn's death coincided with the rest of her family, we have yet to hear about it. Why would this be a secret? Answer: it wouldn't be. The reason nobody knows is because they didn't bother with an autopsy. I never claimed to be an expert in the field, nor do I play one on TV. Limit your arguments to things I do claim.

Regarding the 7th body, I was only suggesting that the unfortunate girl in the picture was on the same reel as the DeFeo crime photos, therefore more than one murder occurred in Suffolk County. Are you seriously debating whether horrible shooting crimes occur less than once a day? Really? Really?

Stop debating me. I'm pointing out facts, and you are just so boring that you want to dispute any fact I put forth. Go ahead, if that's your passion. We all laugh at you anyway. I've said my piece.

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:30 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: Jacob, these murders were headlines for days. The one person who thought there was a 7th body was Ric Osuna, not the police or investigators. Thanks for showing your ignorance once more. :roll:

It takes more than watching episodes of Quincy or NCIS to have trainings in autopsies, Jacob. Too bad that is the extent to your trainings.
Oh, and you're the resident expert on autopsies. Listen, if we ever got the word as to whether Dawn's death coincided with the rest of her family, we have yet to hear about it. Why would this be a secret? Answer: it wouldn't be. The reason nobody knows is because they didn't bother with an autopsy. I never claimed to be an expert in the field, nor do I play one on TV. Limit your arguments to things I do claim.

Regarding the 7th body, I was only suggesting that the unfortunate girl in the picture was on the same reel as the DeFeo crime photos, therefore more than one murder occurred in Suffolk County. Are you seriously debating whether horrible shooting crimes occur less than once a day? Really? Really?

Stop debating me. I'm pointing out facts, and you are just so boring that you want to dispute any fact I put forth. Go ahead, if that's your passion. We all laugh at you anyway. I've said my piece.
Jacob, these were your exact words:
Was there NOT the photograph of "the 7th body" that was taken not very far from Amityville, where they thought it was one of the children? Victoria, you need to open up your eyes to what the world is, and the world produces more than its share of murders in a single day, particularily in New York. Suffolk County is no exception to this, nor is Long Island immune to it.

You were indicating that Suffolk County police thought that the 7th body was involved in the murders. When you get called out for it, you backtrack and say that you never said that when your own typed words say otherwise. You are also wrong that they never did an autopsy on Dawn. They did. You have put forth no facts, just a bunch of false information.

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:32 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: No Jacob, this type of things does not occur everyday, espcially in a small village like Amityville or Suffolk County. :fp: These murders were headlines in the New York media and in newspapers across the country. Do you have any training to say that they did not do through autopsies?
Do you have any training to not reply or comment on my posts? (Guess not.) Apparently, by this time, you do not grasp the fact that every reply you post is negative and contrary. You cannot help yourself.

Was there NOT the photograph of "the 7th body" that was taken not very far from Amityville, where they thought it was one of the children? Victoria, you need to open up your eyes to what the world is, and the world produces more than its share of murders in a single day, particularily in New York. Suffolk County is no exception to this, nor is Long Island immune to it.

It was headlines for a day, because it was a shocking murder, but a lot of shocking murders make headlines for a day.

And don't worry your little head whether i have trainings in autopies. What you don't know could fill a book, and believe me - that book would never sell. The title of the book would be "BORING."

There is no law against me replying to your posts, Jacob. You say something that is not factual, inane, sick. I'm going to call you out on that.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:43 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: Jacob, these murders were headlines for days. The one person who thought there was a 7th body was Ric Osuna, not the police or investigators. Thanks for showing your ignorance once more. :roll:

It takes more than watching episodes of Quincy or NCIS to have trainings in autopsies, Jacob. Too bad that is the extent to your trainings.
Oh, and you're the resident expert on autopsies. Listen, if we ever got the word as to whether Dawn's death coincided with the rest of her family, we have yet to hear about it. Why would this be a secret? Answer: it wouldn't be. The reason nobody knows is because they didn't bother with an autopsy. I never claimed to be an expert in the field, nor do I play one on TV. Limit your arguments to things I do claim.

Regarding the 7th body, I was only suggesting that the unfortunate girl in the picture was on the same reel as the DeFeo crime photos, therefore more than one murder occurred in Suffolk County. Are you seriously debating whether horrible shooting crimes occur less than once a day? Really? Really?

Stop debating me. I'm pointing out facts, and you are just so boring that you want to dispute any fact I put forth. Go ahead, if that's your passion. We all laugh at you anyway. I've said my piece.
Jacob, these were your exact words:
Was there NOT the photograph of "the 7th body" that was taken not very far from Amityville, where they thought it was one of the children? Victoria, you need to open up your eyes to what the world is, and the world produces more than its share of murders in a single day, particularily in New York. Suffolk County is no exception to this, nor is Long Island immune to it.

You were indicating that Suffolk County police thought that the 7th body was involved in the murders. When you get called out for it, you backtrack and say that you never said that when your own typed words say otherwise. You are also wrong that they never did an autopsy on Dawn. They did. You have put forth no facts, just a bunch of false information.
No, when I said "they thought that the 7th body was involved in the murders," I meant modern day people like Ric. My syntax was off, but I just meant that the "7th body" was in the same roll of film, which meant the death of that girl coincided around the time of the DeFeos' murders.

But if they did do an autopsy on Dawn, was her death around the same time as the rest of her family, or later? Seriously, I'd love to know.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:45 am

Victoria Principles wrote: There is no law against me replying to your posts, Jacob. You say something that is not factual, inane, sick. I'm going to call you out on that.
True, there is no law. So I will have to put up with it. *sigh*

Just keep in mind that anything you perceive as "not factual, inane, or sick" is merely in the eye of the beholder. I don't see anybody else rallying around you.

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:30 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: There is no law against me replying to your posts, Jacob. You say something that is not factual, inane, sick. I'm going to call you out on that.
True, there is no law. So I will have to put up with it. *sigh*

Just keep in mind that anything you perceive as "not factual, inane, or sick" is merely in the eye of the beholder. I don't see anybody else rallying around you.
Facts are facts, Jacob. They don't change because of someone's little fantasyland.

So Jacob, was there an autopsy of Dawn?

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:31 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: There is no law against me replying to your posts, Jacob. You say something that is not factual, inane, sick. I'm going to call you out on that.
True, there is no law. So I will have to put up with it. *sigh*

Just keep in mind that anything you perceive as "not factual, inane, or sick" is merely in the eye of the beholder. I don't see anybody else rallying around you.
Facts are facts, Jacob. They don't change because of someone's little fantasyland.

So Jacob, was there an autopsy of Dawn?
You tell me! You're the one insisting there was one. You tell us what the autopsy said about her, whether she was killed around or way after the others. Or is that a part of your Fantasyland?

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:29 pm

You know it does occur to me that the house is a fairly large house, and houses were a lot more solidly built than they used to be.

When I was a kid my grandparents lived in a large colonial. It was bigger than the Amityville house, but not by that much. My grandfather used to fire guns in the basement. We could hear it if we were on the first floor, but the sound was muffled. So, maybe Ronnie's original story was the truth. Dawn heard muffled banging sounds, went and asked if everything was okay, was told yes, went back to bed to then be killed herself....
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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:36 pm

quotestheraven wrote:You know it does occur to me that the house is a fairly large house, and houses were a lot more solidly built than they used to be.

When I was a kid my grandparents lived in a large colonial. It was bigger than the Amityville house, but not by that much. My grandfather used to fire guns in the basement. We could hear it if we were on the first floor, but the sound was muffled. So, maybe Ronnie's original story was the truth. Dawn heard muffled banging sounds, went and asked if everything was okay, was told yes, went back to bed to then be killed herself....
Dawn was only one flight up from where the shots were coming from. The doors to the rooms were open, so the sound would have been louder than if the doors to the bedrooms were closed. Dawn wasn't stupid - I don't think for one second she would have dismissed six shots. One maybe, two possibly...but six?

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by kathyM » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Yeah, Dawn is the one that always makes me wonder. :think:

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:19 pm

Actually if you look at a 3D model of the house, there's a flight of stairs, a landing, and another flight of stairs that lead up to Dawn's room and Ronnie's room. That's a fair distance. If Dawn had her bedroom door shut and had a radio going that would have done a lot to muffle the sounds. Like I said, my grandparents had a house with a similar layout, and it was amazing what you could hear and what you couldn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s815xpAviU
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believer
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by believer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:57 pm

This is the view from the third floor looking down and you can very clearly see the first floor from this position. The sound of a 35 Marlin being fired on the second floor would've been heard quite clearly in Dawn's room...door closed or not.

Image

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:25 pm

Actually that looks like it's from the landing.
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t00nCiNaToR
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:14 pm

There were 3 shots directly under her bedroom with 2 directly under her bed... I have a .35 Remington, trust me, she heard the shots, woke up and asked if everything was ok... he could have given her a BS excuse and said there was a burglar in the house or some crap like that, she goes back to her room and within seconds he's in there fighting with her over the rifle, he "Lambasts" her and she hit's the bed, he shoots her in the head, pretty cut and dry I would say... of all the stories he's told he has never changed his story of how Dawn was shot, the reasons may have changed a hundred times but the method never did... why is it so hard to believe for everyone?

Unless yer a War hero in a movie, nobody ever gets woken up to gunplay and runs like a crazy person towards the shots, you also have to think of her mindset, half asleep and I mean really, who on earth thinks that their brother is killing their whole family, when she heard his voice I'm sure she was relieved(Phew it's not a maniacal killer thank God!) and did what he said... How wrong she was to feel safe when she heard his voice from the stairs...
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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believer
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by believer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:57 pm

Butch was an idiot. I have a feeling that hearing gunshots in that house wasn't an unusual occurrence. I can see him shooting at squirrels, raccoon, or somebody's pet out of the quarter moon windows in his bedroom. Or some lame excuse like, 'Oh, I was cleaning it and it went off'

And as far as the photo I posted, you can see both sides of the landing on the third floor in this photo. But like tooncinator pointed out...it doesn't matter. She most definitely heard the shots....or at least should have.

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t00nCiNaToR
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:57 am

I highly doubt high powered gunfire was a normal occurrence in the house... although might not have been totally unexpected...
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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