The Night of the Murders.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:27 am

t00nCiNaToR wrote:There were 3 shots directly under her bedroom with 2 directly under her bed... I have a .35 Remington, trust me, she heard the shots, woke up and asked if everything was ok... he could have given her a BS excuse and said there was a burglar in the house or some crap like that, she goes back to her room and within seconds he's in there fighting with her over the rifle, he "Lambasts" her and she hit's the bed, he shoots her in the head, pretty cut and dry I would say... of all the stories he's told he has never changed his story of how Dawn was shot, the reasons may have changed a hundred times but the method never did... why is it so hard to believe for everyone?
Because in the crime scene photos she - and the blood - are all under the covers.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by believer » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:58 am

sherbetbizarre wrote:Because in the crime scene photos she - and the blood - are all under the covers.
Which dispels any theory of a struggle between Dawn and Butch.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:03 am

sherbetbizarre wrote: Because in the crime scene photos she - and the blood - are all under the covers.
Her covers were pushed back when she got out of bed to see what the gunshots were all about, then seconds later there was a struggle. Ronnie knocks her out and she falls on the bed, and he shoots her.

Then I suppose he just covered her up with the bedspread, which would explain why all the blood and gore was underneath the covers.

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t00nCiNaToR
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:50 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote: Because in the crime scene photos she - and the blood - are all under the covers.
Her covers were pushed back when she got out of bed to see what the gunshots were all about, then seconds later there was a struggle. Ronnie knocks her out and she falls on the bed, and he shoots her.

Then I suppose he just covered her up with the bedspread, which would explain why all the blood and gore was underneath the covers.
You Jacobmarley1 sir are a Genious! As for the previous 2 posts you guys need to go back to detective school... You're telling me in the History of gun violence nobody has ever been shot and then covered up? hmmm, there's no evidence either way but you do have to use logic and as far as I know Butchie has never changed his story about how he shot Dawn...
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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t00nCiNaToR
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:10 am

sherbetbizarre wrote:
t00nCiNaToR wrote:There were 3 shots directly under her bedroom with 2 directly under her bed... I have a .35 Remington, trust me, she heard the shots, woke up and asked if everything was ok... he could have given her a BS excuse and said there was a burglar in the house or some crap like that, she goes back to her room and within seconds he's in there fighting with her over the rifle, he "Lambasts" her and she hit's the bed, he shoots her in the head, pretty cut and dry I would say... of all the stories he's told he has never changed his story of how Dawn was shot, the reasons may have changed a hundred times but the method never did... why is it so hard to believe for everyone?
Because in the crime scene photos she - and the blood - are all under the covers.
And I don't remember reading anywhere that there was blood on the blanket(Or if there was it was a small amount at the top where it was sitting on the wound) or the headboard(Which is VERY ODD!!), I once read that butchie said he wiped the headboard down but that could have been BS... OK if she's so warm and toasty under the blankets why was John completely uncovered? does that automatically means he was awake? No, but there a good chance he not only did wake up he got out of bed as well and Butchie didn't have the time to cover him up after shooting him as he was on his way upstairs...
Last edited by t00nCiNaToR on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:16 am

t00nCiNaToR wrote:
sherbetbizarre wrote:
t00nCiNaToR wrote:There were 3 shots directly under her bedroom with 2 directly under her bed... I have a .35 Remington, trust me, she heard the shots, woke up and asked if everything was ok... he could have given her a BS excuse and said there was a burglar in the house or some crap like that, she goes back to her room and within seconds he's in there fighting with her over the rifle, he "Lambasts" her and she hit's the bed, he shoots her in the head, pretty cut and dry I would say... of all the stories he's told he has never changed his story of how Dawn was shot, the reasons may have changed a hundred times but the method never did... why is it so hard to believe for everyone?
Because in the crime scene photos she - and the blood - are all under the covers.
And I don't remember reading anywhere that there was blood on the blanket or the headboard, I once read that butchie said he wiped the headboard down but that could have been BS... OK if she's so warm and toasty under the blankets why was John completely uncovered? does that automatically means he was awake? No, but there a good chance he not only did wake up he got out of bed as well and Butchie didn't have the time to cover him up as he was on his way upstairs...
John's murder wasn't as gruesome as Dawn's, and maybe he didn't want to look at Dawn (he was undoubtedly closest to Dawn due to being close to the same age). He didn't cover up Allison, who was just as gruesome, but maybe because...who knows.

As far as the rumor of him wiping down the headboard...why the hell would he bother doing that?! It's not like he took the bodies anywhere, so I don't see any logical reason why a lazy soneofableach would do something as manual-laborish as "cleaning blood off a headboard." That was the silliest BS Ronnie ever told (if it was he who said it).

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:29 am

I read somewhere (probably here) that Dawn's autopsy said there were no signs that she had been in a struggle.
[img]http://usera.imagecave.com/ravensez/Page-1.jpg[/img]

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:33 am

quotestheraven wrote:I read somewhere (probably here) that Dawn's autopsy said there were no signs that she had been in a struggle.
She wasn't alive long enough for anything to show up in an autopsy. Her heart stopped pumping blood, almost as soon as she hit the bed, therefore bruising would not be evident. If she had been alive a few minutes, maybe 15, maybe 30 minutes (I'm no expert), then there would have been signs. A fat lip, maybe, or some swelling or bruising.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:36 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
quotestheraven wrote:I read somewhere (probably here) that Dawn's autopsy said there were no signs that she had been in a struggle.
She wasn't alive long enough for anything to show up in an autopsy. Her heart stopped pumping blood, almost as soon as she hit the bed, therefore bruising would not be evident. If she had been alive a few minutes, maybe 15, maybe 30 minutes (I'm no expert), then there would have been signs. A fat lip, maybe, or some swelling or bruising.
Not only that, just about her whole face had collapsed making it hard or impossible to tell even if there were signs. I don't think they were looking too hard for injuries at the time anyway seeing how the COD was pretty evident.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:29 pm

t00nCiNaToR wrote:And I don't remember reading anywhere that there was blood on the blanket(Or if there was it was a small amount at the top where it was sitting on the wound) or the headboard(Which is VERY ODD!!)
Wouldn't blood on the headboard - or walls - be more likely if she were shot after being pushed, or do you think she was shot while flat on the bed anyway?

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:36 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
t00nCiNaToR wrote:And I don't remember reading anywhere that there was blood on the blanket(Or if there was it was a small amount at the top where it was sitting on the wound) or the headboard(Which is VERY ODD!!)
Wouldn't blood on the headboard - or walls - be more likely if she were shot after being pushed, or do you think she was shot while flat on the bed anyway?
I think she was shot exactly where she lay but I do feel that her headboard should have been sprayed with blood and particulate matter... I've shot deer from 50 yds with that bullet in the chest and there was more spray on the leaves behind him than that was on her headboard from a shot from 5 feet at most... But I have to admit I have never shot a deer in the skull with that bullet which may very well be a complete different story but not even one drop? I find it baffling but bullets do very strange things in the body... And her face was almost completley concaved... but no spray at all??? Anywere? Very strange to say the least...
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:16 pm

And just my opinion but my neighbour was shot in his bed in the face with a .308, the cops left the bed in the basement so I know what close range human head shot spray looks like... We had to tear out the drywall out of the bedroom because it was always cold in there(Spirit related?) to replace the insulation with R-20, so the bullet went through the head, into the headboard leaving a hair/Blood/Brain/bone/grey matter spray in the shape of a funnel on it, through the cloth and foam, the 2x10" wood(Of the Headboard), through the drywall and a 2x4 stud(Both sides at an angle), through the 1/4" exterior wall and outside then into the ground where the police dug up the earth to sift the dirt through a screen... I understand the .35 is no .308(But not by much) but I almost feel Dawn and Probably Allison was shot with a .357 or in other words a .35cal handgun... but like I said, bullets do strange things in the body... hmmm... Why the Hell did Butchie put a Pistol Holster in the sewer in Brooklyn if it had no connection to the crime??? That will bug me forever!!!
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:49 pm

OK so after a bit of research I have found that...

A .308 180gr bullet does 2620FPS at the Muzzle.

A .35 200gr Bullet does 2080FPS at the Muzzle.

A .357 180gr Magnum Bullet does 1145FPS at the Muzzle.

There is no Velocity loss at 5' for any of the bullets.

If a .308 does a straight line(Through all I said) from the barrel to the ground outside why wouldn't the .35 at least have ended up in the crawlspace at 112 Ocean Avenue?

Or in the Next Door neighbours living room for that matter...

I can see going into a body and then a mattress, that would slow it down, but to barely exit a skull (Allison) alone when fired from say 5' and not exiting Dawns at all?... hmmmm... Smells funny...

Food for thought.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:16 pm

And hence the reason why, after 39 years, we're still discussing it. And it is still a fascinating mystery.

Maybe the smartest thing Ronnie ever did in his life was not tell us the truth of that night. Because then, well, we'd be talking about something else in 2013, other than Ronnie's crime.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:19 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:And hence the reason why, after 39 years, we're still discussing it. And it is still a fascinating mystery.

Maybe the smartest thing Ronnie ever did in his life was not tell us the truth of that night. Because then, well, we'd be talking about something else in 2013, other than Ronnie's crime.
Not to mention the fact a .357 would barely be heard from the 2nd floor to the 3rd... hmmmm was it a pin job? I'm not saying he didn't do it... but did he use the rifle on everyone, my experience would say no.

I never really tought about that guy that got killed next to my place in a long time... hmmmm
Last edited by t00nCiNaToR on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:23 pm

My biggest question concerns the father's position in the bed. Nobody in authority has told us why he was positioned like that. Ronnie would love to have us believe that his dead or dying father was carried back to bed after being shot elsewhere. Or, after being shot twice, he managed to get up and charge the shooter like a bull, before being brought down?

The prosecuter didn't say why, the defense laywer never said why, and we can't believe Ronnie. But what a strange position for a sleeping man to be in. No covers on him or nothing!

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:27 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:My biggest question concerns the father's position in the bed. Nobody in authority has told us why he was positioned like that. Ronnie would love to have us believe that his dead or dying father was carried back to bed after being shot elsewhere. Or, after being shot twice, he managed to get up and charge the shooter like a bull, before being brought down?

The prosecuter didn't say why, the defense laywer never said why, and we can't believe Ronnie. But what a strange position for a sleeping man to be in. No covers on him or nothing!

No matter what happened that night, dad was shot first, I would say he was shot where he lay, and so was mum... it's everyone else that Boggles the mind... If allison was next that would have been fast, she wouldn't have had that much time to wake up and get out of bed... but at least I think John was told to go back to bed... I think Mark was told to roll over... and Dawn well we already discussed that but were they all shot with the .35 marlin? I'm not so sure, shells in the gutter be damned...

I know for a fact I can shoot my .35 in a pigs head on the floor of my house I know that bullet will end up in the basement 99.9% of the time.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:19 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:My biggest question concerns the father's position in the bed. Nobody in authority has told us why he was positioned like that. Ronnie would love to have us believe that his dead or dying father was carried back to bed after being shot elsewhere. Or, after being shot twice, he managed to get up and charge the shooter like a bull, before being brought down?

The prosecuter didn't say why, the defense laywer never said why, and we can't believe Ronnie. But what a strange position for a sleeping man to be in. No covers on him or nothing!
Inch for inch he is in the EXACT SAME POSITION AS DAWN but reversed...

But in all fairness my next door neighbour could have been shot in the eye so only one part of the skull to go through, I wasnt there and don't have pics to prove it, wonder if the cops will make copies?
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:35 am

t00nCiNaToR wrote: but were they all shot with the .35 marlin? I'm not so sure, shells in the gutter be damned...
To be fair, some stuff that was in the gutter could have been there before Ronnie dumped his stuff there.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:49 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:My biggest question concerns the father's position in the bed. Nobody in authority has told us why he was positioned like that. Ronnie would love to have us believe that his dead or dying father was carried back to bed after being shot elsewhere. Or, after being shot twice, he managed to get up and charge the shooter like a bull, before being brought down?

The prosecuter didn't say why, the defense laywer never said why, and we can't believe Ronnie. But what a strange position for a sleeping man to be in. No covers on him or nothing!
Jacob, the father was shot exactly where he was in bed. The bullet holes in the mattrices matched the exact position of where the bullet holes were in the bodies.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:52 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:My biggest question concerns the father's position in the bed. Nobody in authority has told us why he was positioned like that. Ronnie would love to have us believe that his dead or dying father was carried back to bed after being shot elsewhere. Or, after being shot twice, he managed to get up and charge the shooter like a bull, before being brought down?

The prosecuter didn't say why, the defense laywer never said why, and we can't believe Ronnie. But what a strange position for a sleeping man to be in. No covers on him or nothing!
Jacob, the father was shot exactly where he was in bed. The bullet holes in the mattrices matched the exact position of where the bullet holes were in the bodies.
Do you think maybe the medical examiner, or the police, pulled the covers off of Mr. DeFeo, and that's when that infamous photograph was taken? :think:

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