The Night of the Murders.

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Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:05 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:My biggest question concerns the father's position in the bed. Nobody in authority has told us why he was positioned like that. Ronnie would love to have us believe that his dead or dying father was carried back to bed after being shot elsewhere. Or, after being shot twice, he managed to get up and charge the shooter like a bull, before being brought down?

The prosecuter didn't say why, the defense laywer never said why, and we can't believe Ronnie. But what a strange position for a sleeping man to be in. No covers on him or nothing!
Jacob, the father was shot exactly where he was in bed. The bullet holes in the mattrices matched the exact position of where the bullet holes were in the bodies.
Do you think maybe the medical examiner, or the police, pulled the covers off of Mr. DeFeo, and that's when that infamous photograph was taken? :think:
No, that is the way they found them.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:20 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
No, that is the way they found them.
Why do you think Mr. DeFeo was found like that, with no covers on him? If you think that's how the police found him, maybe one of the kids from the bar pulled the covers back to see if Mr. DeFeo was okay?

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:50 am

What I'm wondering is: is there a significance to the fact that the two sisters were shot in the face? Everyone else was shot in the back.

Also, they say the murders happened between 2-4 am. The dog was barking at 3, so they think that's when all the murders happened. What if the dog was carrying on at 3 to warn Dawn who was just getting home?
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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:33 am

quotestheraven wrote:What I'm wondering is: is there a significance to the fact that the two sisters were shot in the face? Everyone else was shot in the back.

Also, they say the murders happened between 2-4 am. The dog was barking at 3, so they think that's when all the murders happened. What if the dog was carrying on at 3 to warn Dawn who was just getting home?
I don't think so - I think Ronnie shot Allison in haste, since she quickly looked up at him from her bed. He was maybe startled, then fired.

His sister Dawn was more out of haste than anything else, since a struggle ensued moments before.

A dog consciously barking in order to warn? Too much to ask from a mere dog. lol

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:40 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:
No, that is the way they found them.
Why do you think Mr. DeFeo was found like that, with no covers on him? If you think that's how the police found him, maybe one of the kids from the bar pulled the covers back to see if Mr. DeFeo was okay?
The police photos are how exactly things were when the police come onto the scene. They don't disturb anything or else evidence could be altered and destroyed. Ronnie's lawyer would have a field day if these photos were done after the initial crime scene was altered.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:46 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:
No, that is the way they found them.
Why do you think Mr. DeFeo was found like that, with no covers on him? If you think that's how the police found him, maybe one of the kids from the bar pulled the covers back to see if Mr. DeFeo was okay?
The police photos are how exactly things were when the police come onto the scene. They don't disturb anything or else evidence could be altered and destroyed. Ronnie's lawyer would have a field day if these photos were done after the initial crime scene was altered.
The guys from the bar were there before the police. Yeswett himself could have pulled back the covers to see if Mr. DeFeo was okay, only to discover that he was, in fact, dead. Then he called the police.

When Ronnie broke into the house, on the pretext of losing his key and getting no response from his family on the telephone, he said he discovered his family dead. Then he ran to the bar and had his friends come with him back to the house. I read that one or two of the guys from the bar raced upstairs to see if they were dead.

So Ronnie could have pulled back the covers when he broke into the house, or one of his buddies did. All this before the police became involved with the case.

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:29 pm

A dog consciously barking in order to warn? Too much to ask from a mere dog. lol
Don't have much experience with dogs, do you?
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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:32 pm

quotestheraven wrote:
A dog consciously barking in order to warn? Too much to ask from a mere dog. lol
Don't have much experience with dogs, do you?
Shaggy was no Lassie. :dance:

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:53 pm

The guys from the bar were there before the police. Yeswett himself could have pulled back the covers to see if Mr. DeFeo was okay, only to discover that he was, in fact, dead. Then he called the police.

When Ronnie broke into the house, on the pretext of losing his key and getting no response from his family on the telephone, he said he discovered his family dead. Then he ran to the bar and had his friends come with him back to the house. I read that one or two of the guys from the bar raced upstairs to see if they were dead.

So Ronnie could have pulled back the covers when he broke into the house, or one of his buddies did. All this before the police became involved with the case.

That's possible. But if he moved the bed covers he could have moved the bodies and the bullet holes would not have lined up.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:59 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:
The guys from the bar were there before the police. Yeswett himself could have pulled back the covers to see if Mr. DeFeo was okay, only to discover that he was, in fact, dead. Then he called the police.

When Ronnie broke into the house, on the pretext of losing his key and getting no response from his family on the telephone, he said he discovered his family dead. Then he ran to the bar and had his friends come with him back to the house. I read that one or two of the guys from the bar raced upstairs to see if they were dead.

So Ronnie could have pulled back the covers when he broke into the house, or one of his buddies did. All this before the police became involved with the case.

That's possible. But if he moved the bed covers he could have moved the bodies and the bullet holes would not have lined up.
He probably didn't have to touch the body (I sure wouldn't have) to know that Mr. DeFeo wasn't merely injured, but dead. One look would have said it, as he had been dead many hours by this point.

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:56 pm

It doesn't take a genius dog to start barking and howling when it hears one of its owners coming in.
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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:06 pm

quotestheraven wrote:It doesn't take a genius dog to start barking and howling when it hears one of its owners coming in.
I'm no genius, but I would think the opposite is true. Dogs wouldn't bark and howl when someone they know and love comes home. Only with strangers and people the do not love.

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:56 pm

They don't unless they're trying to gain that person's attention. My dog usually only barks when she is trying to get my attention. We used to have a terrier/beagle mix who would bark/howl/carry on when she was trying to get family attention - usually because one of the kids was doing something stupid.

And my dog I have now (a mini-dachshund) growled, barked, and snapped at Ronnie on the video of AMC story of Amityville. She's a smart little pup.
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Matt9290
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Matt9290 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:30 pm

I agree that the dog is far more likely to bark and howl at strangers rather than family members, unless Ronnie had somehow pi$$ed it off working himself up in to a frenzy prior to the murders.
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Rokiisun
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Rokiisun » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:50 pm

We're the covers pulled down by Ronnie or first responders though?

If the covers had blood on them or matched up with the bullets fired
then it would be safe to say they were shot with the covers over their
bodies. If not then they were shot without the covers.
It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:37 pm

Rokiisun wrote:We're the covers pulled down by Ronnie or first responders though?

If the covers had blood on them or matched up with the bullets fired
then it would be safe to say they were shot with the covers over their
bodies. If not then they were shot without the covers.
Thing is, we don't know. I question why this information isn't first-hand knowledge by this point. It all adds to the mystery, and, frankly, this kind of mystery is needless. Why keep people guessing to little things like this? Full disclosure is afforded to us by law, yet we never get any full disclosure regarding the DeFeo case. Weird.

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:16 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Rokiisun wrote:We're the covers pulled down by Ronnie or first responders though?

If the covers had blood on them or matched up with the bullets fired
then it would be safe to say they were shot with the covers over their
bodies. If not then they were shot without the covers.
Thing is, we don't know. I question why this information isn't first-hand knowledge by this point. It all adds to the mystery, and, frankly, this kind of mystery is needless. Why keep people guessing to little things like this? Full disclosure is afforded to us by law, yet we never get any full disclosure regarding the DeFeo case. Weird.
Jacob, you do not have the right to every tidbit of information out there.

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Jacobmarley1
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Jacobmarley1 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:45 am

Victoria Principles wrote: Jacob, you do not have the right to every tidbit of information out there.
says the next Suffolk County Chief of Police.

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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by kathyM » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:15 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Victoria Principles
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:23 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote: Jacob, you do not have the right to every tidbit of information out there.
says the next Suffolk County Chief of Police.

Go ahead Jacob, let's see you try to get all the information that you think you have a "right" to.

PS. Suffolk County does not have a Chief of Police.

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quotestheraven
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Re: The Night of the Murders.

Post by quotestheraven » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:26 pm

On the website Amityville Files, they have Ronnie's handwritten statement when he was still trying to say it was a mob hit. He describes "finding" the bodies of his parents. It states that the father wasn't under the covers when Ronnie "found" them.

There's also what appears to be part of the trial transcript that states that the father might have been standing when he was shot the first time. To me, that would explain the odd way his father appears to be laying in the bed.

I am not sure about the autopsy reports, but I am absolutely sure that the trial transcript is a matter of public record. The problem is that trial transcripts can be kind of long. I did research on a case in Virginia that involved a one day trial, and the transcript was still over 100 pages. So, if Ronnie's trial lasted several days - imagine how long the transcript is? You'd have to pay for copies, and you'd have to pay whatever the court wanted to charge because it's not like they're gonna let you take the originals down to Staples. So, if they want to charge 25 cents per page - they can do that. In the case I researched, it was just easier for me to sit at the court house, read, and make notes. However, I don't live anywhere near Amityville, so I don't really consider that an option.

There is part of me that would really like to read the entire court transcript - not just excerpts - but why would I spend hundreds of dollars for copies, or go all the way to Amityville just to satisfy morbid curiosity?
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