Ronnie ALMOST got away with it. Almost.

[RThompson]

True. Even after all this time in prison, he still can't seem to figure out what the best future "game plan" ought to be... Too many stories, too many twists, when his best efforts probably should've gone into admitting his guilt and explaining what really went down, least as well he can patch it back together.

Of course, my own initial interest in the case came from The Amityville Horror--the book, then later, the film--when my mother read it to me as a kid (and I do mean as a kid; it would've been when I was around four years old). At the time and for a long time after, I fully believed Anson's tale and all of its nuances, including the belief that Butch had been possessed, and, by extension, somewhat of an innocent. As an adolescent, I came across Holzer's Murder In Amityville, and that rekindled an interest in the stories of the Lutz haunting but also in the DeFeo case itself. It was around that time I started to feel that, the DeFeo tragedy aside, it all had been a hoax; and that as far as the DeFeo aspect went, Ronnie was simply a very-guilty coldblooded killer, no more an innocent to supernatural manipulation than, say, Charles Whitman, to pull a name out of a hat. I visited Amityville in the summer of 1991, came away with my own "strange Amityville Horror house tale", yet felt that the only real horror there had been Ronald and his actions. In the pre-Internet days though, research on either the crimes or the Lutz families' subsequent stories and tribulations weren't easy for me to locate, much less study. Only in the past decade have I been able to attempt to learn as much possible of all things--and sides--on Amityville. This site has been an IMMENSE & great help, might I add. And, all in all, I'm still lacking a lot of info, I'm sure, and am probably not much more above the level of novice when it comes to factual knowledge AND ability to cite research on this matter.

But, I thought I'd register here, and if I came to a point I wasn't able to find an answer or an opinion to lead me to some informed belief on something, here would be the place to converse with others in order to gain it. Thanks for this site. And as far as my beliefs in the present? I feel there are elements of the DeFeo murders that are still intriguing and well-worth discussion, including the potential of supernatural intervention (though in NO WAY exonerating Ronnie for his choices & actions). And though I'm quite "on the fence" when it comes to many of the details others may have already come to conclusions on, I have recently, for the first time since I was a much younger person, somewhat overhauled my attempts at "rational skepticism" (or whatever) concerning this entire case. Due to things learned since having more access to information of all kinds & opinion concerning the Lutz haunting, I now feel comfortable stating that I do believe that something occurred to the Lutz family in that house, several "somethings", and that, for the most part, that aspect of the Lutz case--the potential supernatural connections--are very important and ought be given a more credible and serious study than the sideshow-esque view the majority of the general public that have any knowledge of the "Amityville story" give it credit for. Thus, again, I applaud this site and its members for working towards that idea. (Apologies for this overly-wordy-&-boringly-autobio-post. Thanks for having me here.)

[shuggins]

Hello, RThompson! Welcome to the board. Awesome post! I am in complete alignment with you. I think "something" did surely happen to the Lutzes but am cognizant that the Anson book and the movie are way, way over the top.

At four your mom was reading you the Anson book? WHOA. My mom let me read her copy when it came out (I was 8 yrs old in 1977). She had to explain some of the things to me. It damaged my mind for a while. I was freaked out. Forgot about it until we went and saw the movie. Damaged mind all over again. Hence my obsession.

Sorry to hijack the thread... and yea, no way Ronnie was getting away with it whether he hid the shells or not.

[BellWitch74]

Heroin addicts don't premeditate anything. They can't.

[Dan the Damned]

But remember, Ronnie was the one person on Earth who only used heroin on weekends and holidays without getting totally addicted to it. He's Superman. [/sarcasm]

[BellWitch74]

lol i forgot!

[Evanguy Reincarnated]

I don't think Ronnie could have pulled it off in the long run with confessing for the murders. You wonder if he still thinks about the murders and feels remorse for what he has done? Do you think he planned out these murders or were they more spur of the moment drug inspired?

[Dan the Damned]

I don't think they were planned. He might have had fantasies about killing his family prior to that night, but when the time came, I think it was pretty much spur of the moment -- perhaps fueled by him not being all that coherent.

I would expect he'd think about the murders every night -- except on nights when there is some crisis going on in the prison. Like if he knew some other prisoner was after him, the fear of what might happen the next day would probably prevent him thinking about 1974 for that night.

It probably eats at him daily. It probably drives him a little more insane each day. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...

[Evanguy Reincarnated]

I don't think they were planned. He might have had fantasies about killing his family prior to that night, but when the time came, I think it was pretty much spur of the moment -- perhaps fueled by him not being all that coherent.

I would expect he'd think about the murders every night -- except on nights when there is some crisis going on in the prison. Like if he knew some other prisoner was after him, the fear of what might happen the next day would probably prevent him thinking about 1974 for that night.

It probably eats at him daily. It probably drives him a little more insane each day. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...

interesting thoughts Dan as always...I would have to agree with you. We all do things in our lifes out of anger that we wish we had a redo. After the anger settles down we all can think a little more clearer. In Ronnies case, I couldn't image what goes through his mind each and every day reliving 13-NOV-1974 at 3:15. If he any soul or remorse that would have to drive a man crazy!

[Dan the Damned]

I'm no expert, but I agree -- I think reliving that day after day would be maddening. I couldn't imagine living with such guilt. I'd guess you'd have to build some sort of mental wall just to protect yourself from the emotions. And maybe Ronnie has built himself such a wall -- on a subconscious level. Maybe he is at a point where he really believes he is innocent...

[Evanguy Reincarnated]

I'm no expert, but I agree -- I think reliving that day after day would be maddening. I couldn't imagine living with such guilt. I'd guess you'd have to build some sort of mental wall just to protect yourself from the emotions. And maybe Ronnie has built himself such a wall -- on a subconscious level. Maybe he is at a point where he really believes he is innocent...

The mind is a powerful thing. I know I use various techniques each night to get my mind off my job so I can sleep each night. I guess you could call it the "Counting Sheep" technique. This could also be used I would suppose to rid your mind off of bad happenings.

[Dan the Damned]

I remember one night when I was a kid, and my mind was thinking of something scary. I was really giving myself the creeps, thinking "something" was about to step out of the dark and grab me or something. Suddenly, I remembered that I forgot to do my homework. My mind started going into overdrive about how much trouble I was going to be in, and thinking of different ways I might get out of it, etc. And I was totally aware that the scary thoughts didn't scare me a bit anymore.

And I laid in bed that night wondering why I was no longer scared -- just because I suddenly had this "homework crisis." But it worked. It was unintentional, but it got my mind out of that weird spiral of terror...

[Brendan72]

I remember one night when I was a kid, and my mind was thinking of something scary. I was really giving myself the creeps, thinking "something" was about to step out of the dark and grab me or something. Suddenly, I remembered that I forgot to do my homework. My mind started going into overdrive about how much trouble I was going to be in, and thinking of different ways I might get out of it, etc. And I was totally aware that the scary thoughts didn't scare me a bit anymore.

And I laid in bed that night wondering why I was no longer scared -- just because I suddenly had this "homework crisis." But it worked. It was unintentional, but it got my mind out of that weird spiral of terror...

Maybe the fear was an unconscious anxiety to do the homework? The mind plays funny tricks on us.

And to respond to the statement of this thread - no Butch DeFeo did not get away with it, not even almost. I think the police suspected him if even remotely from the start. And then things just came undone for DeFeo, or came together for the police. To suggest DeFeo nearly got away with it would be to imply he was a criminal mastermind ...

[BellWitch74]

Does Ronnie think about it daily? Well, you'd have to assume he has a conscience ...... does he? I have yet to see evidence of one.....

[Jacobmarley1]

I don't think they were planned. He might have had fantasies about killing his family prior to that night, but when the time came, I think it was pretty much spur of the moment -- perhaps fueled by him not being all that coherent.

It probably eats at him daily. It probably drives him a little more insane each day. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...

If it ate at him daily, it would show he had a conscience. But each parole hearing showed he harbored no guilt for his actions. Prior to such parole hearings, I am sure that prison personell give the authorities at the hearing reports on DeFeo's actions (a progress report, as such). If guilt was driving him insane each day, the reports would show that, and Ronnie would be on his way out.

But I don't think that's the case. Not by a long shot.

[BellWitch74]

For another thing, you've got to land on a story and stick to it in order to get a way with something. Bouncing around, changing it up with every breath you take smacks of guilt.

[Dan the Damned]

Aww, give poor Ronnie a break. He wouldn't have to keep changing his story if those pesky investigators didn't keep finding holes in them!

It probably eats at [Ronnie] daily. It probably drives him a little more insane each day. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...

If it ate at him daily, it would show he had a conscience. But each parole hearing showed he harbored no guilt for his actions. Prior to such parole hearings, I am sure that prison personell give the authorities at the hearing reports on DeFeo's actions (a progress report, as such). If guilt was driving him insane each day, the reports would show that, and Ronnie would be on his way out.

But I don't think that's the case. Not by a long shot.

I think guilt and remorse are important in leading to someone's parole, but I don't think that alone would spring Ronnie from prison.

And I think he does have a conscience. That's the gist of my post -- I think he's probably engaged in a long-running battle with his conscience. Have you ever seen a kid who gets caught being mean to someone? This isn't universal, but sometimes the kid will get angry at being caught, and he'll fight the charges, saying he wasn't at blame or that the other kid deserved to get hit or whatever. And as he slowly realizes the bad thing that he's done, he starts to cry.


I think the only people who don't have a conscience are the truly psychopathic -- the ones who kill without motive or reason and who show no emotion or even try to conceal their crimes. The ones who are (hopefully) locked up in a mental ward somewhere.

Ronnie isn't like that. Yes, his crimes were horrible and seemingly meaningless, but not to the truly psychotic level. Whether Ronnie realizes it or not, I think the guilt over his crimes has been eating away at him over the years. I think that holds true of anyone who has done something horrible in their lives, whether they were caught or not. You can try to forget, but until you get Alzheimers, it's always there in your subconscious, eating away at you whether you know it or not. Affecting your health and maybe even your sanity.

You can spend so much time telling people that someone else did the crime that you eventually believe your own lie, but deep down you still remember exactly what happened.

Ronnie may not wear his remorse on his sleeve, but I think it's there. I think it's been there ever since that night. I think moments after he shot everyone, he curled up into a ball and thought "Oh my God, what have I done..."

[BellWitch74]

Yeah, I know, I'm too hard on people, expect way too much.

[Link the Labrador]

Good points, Dan the Damned.

Plus, didn't Ronnie get a bit choked up at one point when someone mentioned the kids, espeically Allison?

[Dan the Damned]

I'm not sure. But your comment made me think of a better way to sum up my thought: If someone's conscience is bothering them, it doesn't necessarily manifest itself as being choked up or crying -- it can also make the person angry or violent or quiet and withdrawn or whatever.

[Link the Labrador]

Would he freely admit his conscience is bugging him? He may be fighting his conscience every day, refusing to accept what he's done.

[Dan the Damned]

He may not even realize it. The brain is an amazing and scary thing. He could have convinced himself over the years that he was truly innocent of the crimes -- but that would just be on one level. So while he believes he is innocent, deep down inside, his subconscious knows he's guilty, causing a deep inner turmoil that he is unaware of.

But while he may be unaware, this turmoil could easily be affecting his mental capacities and his physical health.

But that's just me guessing. He may, indeed, still realize that he's a guilty prick. Or there could be a whole host of other things going on.