Dawn Defeo - profile

[JBM2005]

im looking to gather all the info on Dawn Defeo.
...with questions such as?
-did Dawn Graduate from HS in '74?
-also, the claims of her being a recreational drug user? (i heard her BF testified she did multi drugs)
- the butch claim of Dawn pulling out the kitchen Knife of Big Ronnie on occasion?
- when is the 1st time butch claimed she was involved in the killings?
- the ransom incident with her grandfather?
- what people that knew her, say about her?
- and your opinions on her involvement or how she died....also any info can add would be helpful.

[Housekeeper]

- and your opinions on her involvement or how she died....

I don't believe in her involvment. One can't kill members of his family then go back to sleep as easily as she is supposed to have done according to this theory. Ronnie did not go to bed when he killed them, no one can go back to bed when he commits murders. The position, calm and normal, she was found in by the police doesn't fit with the theory of the struggle between her brother and her in her bedroom. If you are pushed by someone on a bed, you don't pull the sheet on you. It doesn't make sense. Some would say Ronnie covered her after shooting her, but what's the use ? Why didn't he do it for his father, and his brothers then ?

[Rokiisun]

Looks like guys both joined up on the same day.

And welcome.

[Housekeeper]

Looks like guys both joined up on the same day.

Is it a sign or something ?

Thank you for welcoming us.

I've never heard about the Amityville case before this month even though I knew barely about a horror movie called Amityville I used to see since I was a child in the forbidden area of VHS old shops. I checked in google what it was about after seeing a commercial for the "Conjuring" movie talking about the Warrens. I don't believe in all that ghost stuff, but what enforced my curiosity is the way the family was killed. I found this forum to be the most full of informations on Internet, that's why I joined it.

I can see you're from Scotland. It's considered Europe's ghost land, isn't it ?

[Rokiisun]

It could very well be a sign

Scotland has its folklore, but I am unsure if its one of the
most haunted lands in europe...

[scipio-USMC]

im looking to gather all the info on Dawn Defeo.
...with questions such as?
-did Dawn Graduate from HS in '74?

Yes

-also, the claims of her being a recreational drug user? (i heard her BF testified she did multi drugs)

A syringe was found in her room, this has led to speculation she was using. WIlliam Davidge signed an affidavit allegedly where he claimed she used drugs. However, there is zero evidence to support his claim he was her boyfriend. Other claims made in the affidavit were lies. His brother also submitted a false affidavit attesting to various things but later recanted. It appears that at the time he filed his false affidavit he got his brother to do so as well or perhaps even forged his brother's signature. William Davidge never testified about anything at the trial or at any of Ron's appeals. One of the false claims was that William Davidge moved to Florida prior to the murders and Ron gave him money to come back to NY to attend the prom with Dawn. WIlliam Davidge didn't move to Florida until after Ron was convicted. He graduated from Amityville Memorial High in June 1975. In the late 1980s Ron made up a story to try to get his conviction overturned and in support of such relied upon a number of false affidavits from friends. These lies are the source of the claims about Dawn. Grace Fagan was Dawn's best friend this was established at trial. No boyfriend was ever mentioned at all at trial let alone did one testify.

- the butch claim of Dawn pulling out the kitchen Knife of Big Ronnie on occasion?

Never corroborated by anyone, simply an allegation by Ronnie. The person who supposedly could corroborate she pulled a knife on her father on the night of the murders was not a real person but rather an invention of Ronnie.

- when is the 1st time butch claimed she was involved in the killings?

1986 in an interview with Newsday where he claimed Dawn killed his father and his mother killed her and the rest of the kids. After this tale proved absurd to people he revised it to him Killing his father, Dawn killing everyone else and then he killed Dawn.

- the ransom incident with her grandfather?

not sure what you are referring to

- what people that knew her, say about her?

The ones who were good friends didn't have anything bad to say about her. Grace Fagan knew her best aside from her family.

- and your opinions on her involvement or how she died....also any info can add would be helpful.

The stories of her involvement are all built on lies and thus not in the least bit credible. There is not any evidence of any family members having problem swith one another EXCEPT having problems with Ron. All claims of problems she had with her parents come from Ron or peopel he got to lie for him including Nonnewitz who went so far as to lie and claim Dawn wanter her to take her to Florida to see WIlliam Davidge. Since he didn't move until after the trial how could Dawn have asked Nonnewitz to take her to Florida? Nonnewitz has as little credibilty as Ron and the fact she stuck by him and then lied for him is extremely suspicious.

Dawn was tested for GSR and tested negative. That is the test for firing a weapon. She had unburned gunpowder on her which is consistent with being shot so not a surprise in the least. She was killed in the exact state she was found in based on the blood evidence. She was foudn in a natural state. She had no other fresh wounds such as would be consistent with being struck in the face by a weapon as Ron now claims occurred. Thus there is not one bit of reliable evidence for me to doubt she was killed while sleeping like the rest. There is not one shred of reliable evidence to suggest she was involved or even had any quarrel of any kind with her parents beyond normal quarrels any family experiences.

[VintageBoy91]

im looking to gather all the info on Dawn Defeo.
...with questions such as?
-did Dawn Graduate from HS in '74?
-also, the claims of her being a recreational drug user? (i heard her BF testified she did multi drugs)
- the butch claim of Dawn pulling out the kitchen Knife of Big Ronnie on occasion?
- when is the 1st time butch claimed she was involved in the killings?
- the ransom incident with her grandfather?
- what people that knew her, say about her?
- and your opinions on her involvement or how she died....also any info can add would be helpful.

All the things Ronnie said and claimed about her are not true in my opinion. You should not believe them.
As far as I know did she graduate from HS in 1974. (Her yearbook picture can be found here too.) After HS and at the time of the murders she visited a secrectary school.
I don't believe that she took drugs. And it's also not 100% sure that William Davidge really was her boyfriend. It's possible that he's a liar too. Davidge and her maybe knew eachother but if they really had a relationship (with all the things people do then ) ? I don't think so. And if Davidge really loved her he would not tell so much bad things about her. (I wouldn't do that when my girlfriend passed away) It is said that Dawn and Grace (her best friend) were quiet/shy girls. I read that somewhere.
And she was NOT involved in the killings of her parents and siblings. She's a victim and not a accomplice!

[scipio-USMC]

All the things Ronnie said and claimed about her are not true in my opinion. You should not believe them.
As far as I know did she graduate from HS in 1974. (Her yearbook picture can be found here too.) After HS and at the time of the murders she visited a secrectary school.

Not visited but rather attended secretarial school.

I don't believe that she took drugs.

The police never released if any residue was found on the needle and syringe found in her room. That certianly raises the possibility though she did use drugs recreationally. Even if she did though many kids did and it doesn't mea squat as far as her involvement in the murders.

And it's also not 100% sure that William Davidge really was her boyfriend. It's possible that he's a liar too. Davidge and her maybe knew eachother but if they really had a relationship (with all the things people do then ) ? I don't think so. And if Davidge really loved her he would not tell so much bad things about her. (I wouldn't do that when my girlfriend passed away) It is said that Dawn and Grace (her best friend) were quiet/shy girls. I read that somewhere.
And she was NOT involved in the killings of her parents and siblings. She's a victim and not a accomplice!

There is no doubt the Affidavit allegedly submitted by William Davidge contained lies. Whether he actually signed it has never been confirmed. Since other affidavits were signed by a notary illegally the document doesn't stand on its own.

The strongest evidence that it is complete BS is the fact that at trial Frank Davidge testifed that after Ronnie pointed a gun at him one times too many he stopped visiting the DeFeo home. The notion he let his younger brother go there and be around Ronnie when he was scared to go there is rather absurd. Not one person ever mentioned William Davidge as even knowing Dawn until the late 1980s when all the lies popped up. Integral to those lies was the WHOPPER that the Davidges moved to Florida prior to Dawn's senior year in high school and that she wanted to move to be with him. The entire lie is as follows:

William Davidge Sr was transferred to Florida in late 1972 and the family thus moved to Florida at that time. WIlliam Davidge Sr. was retired as of 1970. Prior to that he worked for the local government. Evne if he had not retired whoever heard of a government worker being transferred to another state? The only way that could happen was if he worked for the federal government which he did not. Worse yet he died in early 1972 so the claim is that a dead retired former local government worker was transferred to Florida. Talk about a poorly planned lie. The truth is that Davidge's mother moved to Florida in December 1975. She waited until after WIlliam Jr graduated from High School (he graduated in June 1975 from Amityville Memorial High) to move. Thus they moved after Ron was tried and convicted. The supposed motivation for Dawn to want her father dead so she could move to Florida to be with Billy is definitely a big fat lie. If there were any truth at all to her involvement and she actually had a motive then this lie would not have been necessary.

[JBM2005]

so u guys dont know any info on the fake kidnapping plot with Dawn, where she allegedly got 2 guys to meet her grandpa for a $5k drop-off ...weeks before the murder? i think ryan katzenbach was talking about.

[Housekeeper]

I was wondering if Dawn could have been the first one to be shot, and not her parents.

I explain : when Ronnie went to get the shotgun, I assume he took it from his room. So the first room to pass by once he had the shotgun in his hands, was Dawn's, just in front of his. If he had a sudden will to kill out of control, he should start logically by her, without calculating whom he should kill first. His claim he was planning to kill his father only and then panicked, is not logical with what is following.

Ronnie comes out of his room, with the gun, he enters Dawn's room and shoots her. The parents wake up, Ronald Sr while emerging from sleep with his wife, is about to go and check what was the noise while Louise stays in bed, half asleep. Ronald Sr pushes the cover and is about to get out of the bed, when Ronnie notices what is happening with his parents (the parents room is the one easily seen when coming from the 2nd floor stairs, that is why his parents catched his attention first on this floor). Ronnie enters the bedroom, and shoots his father who was about to get up, which would explain why his right foot is outside the bed, and he's not under the sheets and cover. But I can't explain why the yellow cover of Louise is not present at all on Ronald Sr.'s side. Is it on the floor ? How could it be on the floor, while Louise's yellow cover is blocked under the mattress ?

Then, his mother who was already half-awake screams even before turning her head because she understood what happened because of the sound of the gun of course, but also because she was maybe already wondering if a burglar or someone was in their house (and that is what her husband was about to check). The horror on her face which was seen when she was dead is explained by that. I think she even never saw that her son was behind all of this and was about to kill her. Maybe Louise DeFeo died thinking she was shot by a stranger.

Then Ronnie saw Allison first because her bedroom was directly in front of her parents', and he noticed she woke up. Then the boys.
I think this is the way things happened logically because it must be the logical way of thinking of a animal-like killer. He reacts first to what attracts his attention, and follows the most simple path. I have a problem with how he explained the shootings. He begins on the second floor, then goes to the third floor, then goes back to the second floor, then to the first floor to flee the house. I think killers prevent themselves from being trapped somewhere, or seen by anyone, so they don't try to retrace their steps, but go forward as much as possible, toward the exit.

Except Ronnie's testimony, what are the other elements which demonstrates the parents were killed first, and Dawn last ?

[Housekeeper]

I forgot to say something about the famous "no blood on Dawn's bed head" point. There is neither on Allison's wall where the bed head is, while she was shot the same way in the head. And there isn't any blood neither on the walls just next to the boys' bodies.

[scipio-USMC]

I was wondering if Dawn could have been the first one to be shot, and not her parents.

I explain : when Ronnie went to get the shotgun, I assume he took it from his room. So the first room to pass by once he had the shotgun in his hands, was Dawn's, just in front of his. If he had a sudden will to kill out of control, he should start logically by her, without calculating whom he should kill first. His claim he was planning to kill his father only and then panicked, is not logical with what is following.

Ronnie comes out of his room, with the gun, he enters Dawn's room and shoots her. The parents wake up, Ronald Sr while emerging from sleep with his wife, is about to go and check what was the noise while Louise stays in bed, half asleep. Ronald Sr pushes the cover and is about to get out of the bed, when Ronnie notices what is happening with his parents (the parents room is the one easily seen when coming from the 2nd floor stairs, that is why his parents catched his attention first on this floor). Ronnie enters the bedroom, and shoots his father who was about to get up, which would explain why his right foot is outside the bed, and he's not under the sheets and cover. But I can't explain why the yellow cover of Louise is not present at all on Ronald Sr.'s side. Is it on the floor ? How could it be on the floor, while Louise's yellow cover is blocked under the mattress ?

Then, his mother who was already half-awake screams even before turning her head because she understood what happened because of the sound of the gun of course, but also because she was maybe already wondering if a burglar or someone was in their house (and that is what her husband was about to check). The horror on her face which was seen when she was dead is explained by that. I think she even never saw that her son was behind all of this and was about to kill her. Maybe Louise DeFeo died thinking she was shot by a stranger.

Then Ronnie saw Allison first because her bedroom was directly in front of her parents', and he noticed she woke up. Then the boys.
I think this is the way things happened logically because it must be the logical way of thinking of a animal-like killer. He reacts first to what attracts his attention, and follows the most simple path. I have a problem with how he explained the shootings. He begins on the second floor, then goes to the third floor, then goes back to the second floor, then to the first floor to flee the house. I think killers prevent themselves from being trapped somewhere, or seen by anyone, so they don't try to retrace their steps, but go forward as much as possible, toward the exit.

Except Ronnie's testimony, what are the other elements which demonstrates the parents were killed first, and Dawn last ?

The logical person to kill first is the most dangerous and also the one he hated the most. His father was both. He had no reason to lie and say she woke up and called down to him. That part of his confession rings true. Thus it most likely went down the way he said in his confession. Once he killed his parents he decided to just kill them all.

[scipio-USMC]

I forgot to say something about the famous "no blood on Dawn's bed head" point. There is neither on Allison's wall where the bed head is, while she was shot the same way in the head. And there isn't any blood neither on the walls just next to the boys' bodies.

There was blood spatter but high velocity weapons cause a fine mist which is usually not visible to the naked eye. That is why most gunmen don't realize they got blood on themselves.

[Housekeeper]

He had no reason to lie and say she woke up and called down to him. That part of his confession rings true.

Imagine you wake up at 3 am, hearing your brother telling you "it's okay, I was cleaning the gun, and it went off by accident". Dawn is supposed to have said "oh ok" and then went back to sleep. For me it's not a normal reaction.

First, cleaning a gun right in the middle of the night, especially at 3, is not common. It should have questioned Dawn much more than her simple "oh ok".

Second, didn't she find it strange to hear that her brother was cleaning his gun in the second floor ? Where ? In the TV room ? In the stairs ? He is supposed to clean them in his room, or the basement, or the garden, not in the middle of an uncommon place for this. Didn't Dawn find this strange ?

Third, if it went off by accident, on the second floor, the natural reaction of someone is to think "sh***, where did the bullet go", and you go down to see what happened or even laugh at your brother being so silly.

Then didn't she wonder why she was the only one to ask, and wake up, while the others who are on the floor where the sound comes from, are silent ? Wasn't she wondering how come their father did not go mad and went out of his bedroom yelling at Ronnie ? Frankly I don't buy that. There's something wrong with this.

How could you then explain the position of Ronald Sr in his bed ? If he was killed first, then he should be in his bed, under the cover, without any foot outside. On the other hand, this is a logical position if we consider the events I described.

As for the reason to lie about that, Ronnie could have had a good one.
If he says he wanted to kill his father first (and exclusively), he could cry on the supposed monster his father was, his brutality, and bla bla bla. He could make himself a victim this way, and that's what he did. Then all went wrong, he didn't want to kill the entire family, but he was pushed by something he couldn't control, but oh God, he loved them so much bouuuuh bouuuuuh ...

Now on the other hand, if he admits he killed Dawn first (if it ever happened this way), all the crap he said above is not valid anymore. Killing Dawn first would be the proof he intended to kill them all from the beginning, which would make him a brutal mean person, and not a victim brutalized by his father on whom he wanted to take revenge.

[scipio-USMC]

He had no reason to lie and say she woke up and called down to him. That part of his confession rings true.

Imagine you wake up at 3 am, hearing your brother telling you "it's okay, I was cleaning the gun, and it went off by accident". Dawn is supposed to have said "oh ok" and then went back to sleep. For me it's not a normal reaction.

First, cleaning a gun right in the middle of the night, especially at 3, is not common. It should have questioned Dawn much more than her simple "oh ok".

Second, didn't she find it strange to hear that her brother was cleaning his gun in the second floor ? Where ? In the TV room ? In the stairs ? He is supposed to clean them in his room, or the basement, or the garden, not in the middle of an uncommon place for this. Didn't Dawn find this strange ?

Third, if it went off by accident, on the second floor, the natural reaction of someone is to think "sh***, where did the bullet go", and you go down to see what happened or even laugh at your brother being so silly.

Then didn't she wonder why she was the only one to ask, and wake up, while the others who are on the floor where the sound comes from, are silent ? Wasn't she wondering how come their father did not go mad and went out of his bedroom yelling at Ronnie ? Frankly I don't buy that. There's something wrong with this.

How could you then explain the position of Ronald Sr in his bed ? If he was killed first, then he should be in his bed, under the cover, without any foot outside. On the other hand, this is a logical position if we consider the events I described.

As for the reason to lie about that, Ronnie could have had a good one.
If he says he wanted to kill his father first (and exclusively), he could cry on the supposed monster his father was, his brutality, and bla bla bla. He could make himself a victim this way, and that's what he did. Then all went wrong, he didn't want to kill the entire family, but he was pushed by something he couldn't control, but oh God, he loved them so much bouuuuh bouuuuuh ...

Now on the other hand, if he admits he killed Dawn first (if it ever happened this way), all the crap he said above is not valid anymore. Killing Dawn first would be the proof he intended to kill them all from the beginning, which would make him a brutal mean person, and not a victim brutalized by his father on whom he wanted to take revenge.

First of all in his confession he didn't say he told her the gun discharged while he was cleaning it. He said she woke up, got out of bed, stood on the landing and called down to him (because she could see him and thought she recognized his shape). He replied yes go back to bed. What is unnatural about that reaction? She was woken up out of a sound sleep and was groggy, found out the dog or whatever noise woke her came from Ron so went back to bed. Once she found out Ron was awake she assumed everything was ok and went back to bed. She did no go investigate further. Since she didn't investigate further how was she supposed to know whether the others woke up as well or not? With the exception of me my family doesn't get up if the dog barks and half the time doesn't even wake up. I don't go wake them up to make sure they are still alive because they didn't get up.

Second in his confession he said that once he killed his parents he was so pumped up that he couldn't stop if he wanted to. He didn't say there was some evil force driving him. It clearly was adrenaline and excitement. He didn't blame it on abuse that was one of the things his defense attorney tossed into the mix to try to make a jury feel sorry for him. The only incidents he could come up with though were few and far between and failed miserably at accomplishing the intended goal. Only decades later did anyone start buying into the abuse crap after revisionists published books chock full of lies.

Ron Jr. was scared of Big Ron. Big Ron could potentially disarm him and beat the crap put of him. He didn't even want to kill Dawn while she was awake he did it after she went back to bed. Why would he kill Dawn and risk his father stopping him? Killing his father first would be of paramount impoortance not only because his father was the one he was most angry with but because his father is the one most likely to be able to stop his rampage before it even got fully rolling. He had no way of knowing beforehand that aside from Dawn none would get up and investigate.

By the way his door was closests to the stairs while Dawn's was furthers. That means when leaving his room to go downstairs he didn't pass by her room at all.

There is another problem with your theory. In his account he told her to go back to bed, reloaded and then shot her. His weapon could only hold 7 shots before needing to reload.

If he shot Dawn, then his parents, then Allison that leaves only 1 round left to kill his brothers. That means he would have to have reloaded and then killed his second brother. That's not likely at all. His confession was him rapidly killing one brother after the other.

What makes the most sense is to kill them in the order in his confession. To kill all of those on the same floor, reload and then kill his sister.

At the time of his confession he couldn't think of competent lies so gave up the truth. There is no evidence at all he managed to think up the tale about Dawn waking up to try to conceal that he killed her first. Indeed who he killed first has no bearing on his legal guilt at all. The only way it would were if he was to say killing them was an accident as he was trying to kill his father. That would lessen the potential penalty.

He told them that he enjoyed killing his parents, then further enjoyed killing his siblings and that he thoguht about killing hisgrandparents as well. He said they deserved to die too and interestingly asserted such to Holzer as well. He wanted to take out his entire family including extended family. GIven these admissions it was clear he was not trying to provide false details that could potentially lessen his guilt EXCEPT by lying about being insane. Killing his sister first saying because she was out to get him would only help not hurt his insantiy claims but he only thought his insanity defense up later too.

[Housekeeper]

Ok, I understand. I read somwhere the "gun went off by accident" stuff on Internet, and even on this forum I think. But well, I need more time to separate right from wrong, in all the informations one could find. Indeed, if this element did not exist, it changes everything.
But still, you did not answer the question concerning the position of Ronald Sr on the bed, on the covers, and a foot outside.

[Brendan72]

It was obvious Ronnie Sr was the primary target. The other members of the family were the victims of a crime that escalated from shooting the father. I think the moment he saw his mother awakening to the sound of the rifle it just escalated from there. It's easy to for us to speculate how that same anger can be directed at the other members of the family, but then again we can't make the assumption that when under the influence of hard drugs one can be thinking straight.

Then again, the killings appeared calculated and methodical, almost as if Butch wasn't under the influence of drugs. After all how could someone supposedly under the influence just calmly get up for work the next day and go on about his daily routine, as if nothing happened? There was definitely premeditation and a cold calculation involved.

[scipio-USMC]

Ok, I understand. I read somwhere the "gun went off by accident" stuff on Internet, and even on this forum I think. But well, I need more time to separate right from wrong, in all the informations one could find. Indeed, if this element did not exist, it changes everything.
But still, you did not answer the question concerning the position of Ronald Sr on the bed, on the covers, and a foot outside.

His Confession to police and in Court are the only accounts to speak of. Everything else is just made up crap. Even the Court confession though has some falsehoods because as he admitted to Halzer he was pretending to be crazy to try to get off. Thus the parts about being handed the rifle by black hands and the like is all nonsense. Anything that is not referencing his confession to police or in court are not based on evidence.

Ron Sr began to pull himself up when shot. He did not get very far though. Picture someone on their stomach puttig their hands as if they were going to do a pushup and their body accordingly sliding along the bed towards the headboard before rising an inch from the mattress. The trajectory of the bullets show he didn't get far at all before being shot. The fact his foot is dangling a little doesn't mean a thing. Many people sleep in somewhat odd positions. The fact he slept with no covers is not of any significance either plenty of people including me use no blanket or comforter unless it is absolutely freezing. It is quite clear the blanked Louise was nestled in never had her husband in it with her. He was obviously sleeping outside the covers.

Dawn's room is he furthest room on the top floor. That is the furthest place on the 3rd floor to march to his parent's room. Killing her and risking his father getting up and confronting him makes no sense at all. Per your account he killed her, then his parents which is 5 shots. That would leave him with 2 bullets if he had loaded 7 and 1 if he loaded only 6. The magazine holds only 6 rounds but it is possible to chamber a round and then load another thus to hold 7 total. If he had 1 bullet left that means he had to go reload before killing the boys. If 2 bullets left then he could shoot Allison and 1 brother but would have to go reload before killing the next brother.

What makes the most sense is exactly what he said, that he killed his parents then the kids on the same floor then reloaded and killed Dawn.

[Rokiisun]

I wonder where Marc Defeo comes into all of this.
It was rumoured he wasn't allowed to sleep on his
stomach due to his football injury, but he was found
sleeping on his stomach at the crime scene like the
rest of the family.

I wonder... Could it have been Marc who got out
of bed that night?

Or was this claim Marc couldn't sleep on his stomach
false?

[scipio-USMC]

I wonder where Marc Defeo comes into all of this.
It was rumoured he wasn't allowed to sleep on his
stomach due to his football injury, but he was found
sleeping on his stomach at the crime scene like the
rest of the family.

I wonder... Could it have been Marc who got out
of bed that night?

Or was this claim Marc couldn't sleep on his stomach
false?

He was not supposed to sleep on his stomach because you are supposed to keep your leg elevated to encourage circulation when injured. Just because he was advised not to doesn't mean he listened. Someone who is used to sleeping on their stomach and has a problem sleeping on their back usually cares only about sleep and will ignore advice.

[Rokiisun]

I would have done the same. I cannot sleep on my back either.