URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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Vertigo1
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URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by Vertigo1 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:16 pm

Hey Guys

Hope you are all well and happy and healthy?

I wrote on here some time back regarding the much delayed stage play Amityville - The Defeo Murders, it was supposed to happen a couple of years back then was pushed back in to rewrites and workshops then was due to happen this year but another one of our plays was picked up to tour so we had to hold again. Thankfully we are ready to go now and the show opens in May in Manchester UK and we are currently doing readings getting ready and doing some script changes.

We wanted to come to you guys for your opinions, fact checking etc as you guys are second to none when it comes to this subject matter (this board has kept me up for nights researching, thanks), so if you guys dont mind, here are a few questions.

The basis of our play is very much a family drama, a family that from the outside looks like the perfect family but behind closed doors much more is going on. I know many have their opinions on Ronald Snr and if he was violent towards Louise and Ronnie, its something ive researched for years and im of the opinion he was violent, he had a temper and it could be quite destructive, a lot of it came out of frustration though, through problems with his marriage but mainly having a son who is pushing everybody to their limits with his addiction, criminal behavior etc.

With Ronald Snr we are looking a bit more in to his religious side and trying to get a balance on him, i know the family were catholic etc but ive also heard and read etc that Ronald was far more extreme with it, he thought he had a direct line etc, what are your thoughts?

One big thing we have gone back and forth on is the idea that Ronnie didn't act alone, we don't directly come out and accuse anyone but we plant seeds, what are your thoughts on if he worked alone or not? I know many believe he did but ive heard good arguments and evidence to suggest otherwise and can't rule out myself that somebody else could have been involved in some way

Was the car business doing well in 1974, ive heard conflicting reports on that.

Of course the whole Geraldine thing is a lie (and just plain strange) but do we know if he was serious about anyone at the time of the murder?

What are your thoughts on the money situation with Ronnie? Some say he was OK for money whilst his father was handing over cash and he had his job at the dealership, others said he was broke

Neighbors have of course recounted some strange stories about the family (religion, mob, violence etc), who is the one you think has the most credibility?

And the big one, if he worked alone and acted with somebody else, what do you think the motive was?

Thanks guys, any help you can give will be great, we are crediting this board and its members in the thank you section in the program's

Also, this hasn't even gone out to the press yet (look out for press releases from next week) but Richard Allen will play Ronnie Defeo Jnr, (Rich has just won rave reviews in my play Porno Chic) and Celine Constantinides will play Dawn (Celine is touring with our play Watching Goldfish Suffocate)

scipio-USMC
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by scipio-USMC » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:41 pm

Ron did not claim anyone helped him commit the murders until 1986 and obviously his claims from that point forward are lies.

He initially denied any responsibility and tried to pu tth eblame on someone else. When that fell apart he confessed and admitted he did it alone. His confession was detailed and credible. It didn't feature anyone helping him. He confessed in court and likewise admitted he committed the murders himself.

It is obvious to me that he committed the murders alone. When he finally confessed he was broken and had given up. Why would he out himself at that point but not reveal anyone else had haleped if they had actually done so? He admitted where he tosses all the evidence even, he surely would have thrown his helpers under the bus if he had any.

You should stick as close as possible to his confession as recounted in the book High Hopes. His confession detailed how he rapidly went room to room shoting them and noted some obvervations like the legs of one boy twitching. The one thing in his confession that would not be obvious is his claim that after he shot everyone on the 2nd floor Dawn got out of bed, went to the landing and shouted down to him Ron is that you when she saw someone walking in the hall. He said yes go back to bed and had to reload his gun. He reloaded then after an unspecified amount of time went in her room and shot her in bed.

He had no reason to make up the story she had called down to him so it likely is true.

You will have to take liberty at how long he took to reload/gave her to fall back asleep before going into her room to shoot her. The exact amount of time is unclear. He loaded 3 rounds in the gun when he reloaded because he shot her with 1 but the gun still had 2 when tossed in the water. He loaded 7 before he started on his spree.

Vertigo1
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by Vertigo1 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:51 pm

Thank you kindly for that, yes i have gone over his original testimony many times, that's very much what i am leaning towards, we just need to make sure we are covering all basis (my opinion is he worked alone)

scipio-USMC
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by scipio-USMC » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:00 am

Vertigo1 wrote:Thank you kindly for that, yes i have gone over his original testimony many times, that's very much what i am leaning towards, we just need to make sure we are covering all basis (my opinion is he worked alone)
He did an interview with Halzer after he lost his appeal and admitted again that he did it alone. In that interview he also claimed he made up various crap about being handed the gun by a spirit with black hands because he wanted the jury to believe he was crazy.

The first time he blamed others was in 1986 when he blamed Dawn for killing their father, and Louise for killing Dawn and the other kids.

Because of the poor reception of these claims for his 440 hearing (Motion to vacate his conviction) he changed it to Dawn killing everyone and Dawn possibly having an accomplice because he thinks she might have fled out the door with someone but was not positive he claimed he didn't see the shootings just heard. He said he shot Dawn to save his life when she attacked him.

The story from the book the Night The DeFeos Died is one that Osuna and Gerladine came from Defeo but they couold very well have made it up themselves. We don't have any way to know since all 3 are liars. DeFeo claims he told them to leave and didn't tell them anything in his interview. Clearly 1 interview is not enough for him to have provided all the information in the book. So it appears the meeting was just to be able to claim he was the source for the book. He could have told them some things he might be lying about telling them nothing so we have no way to know if he made the crap up or they did. It is obviously mad eup though.

The fact so many years passed before these claims started and the purpose of the claims being to place the blame on others so he could get out of jail pretty much demonstrates they are made up. If he had help he would have tossed his accomplices under the bus at the time of his confessions to police and in court. He woudl have blamed them and minimized his own actions.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:05 pm

Vertigo1 wrote:With Ronald Snr we are looking a bit more in to his religious side and trying to get a balance on him, i know the family were catholic etc but ive also heard and read etc that Ronald was far more extreme with it, he thought he had a direct line etc, what are your thoughts?
The only worthwhile bit in Shattered Hopes Part 1 is the interview with the family friend who went to Canada with them on their religious excursions... she has some stories to tell, and according to her Ronnie Snr. could be a total nutjob. You can probably download/stream Part 1 if you need to see it.

scipio-USMC
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by scipio-USMC » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:17 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Vertigo1 wrote:With Ronald Snr we are looking a bit more in to his religious side and trying to get a balance on him, i know the family were catholic etc but ive also heard and read etc that Ronald was far more extreme with it, he thought he had a direct line etc, what are your thoughts?
The only worthwhile bit in Shattered Hopes Part 1 is the interview with the family friend who went to Canada with them on their religious excursions... she has some stories to tell, and according to her Ronnie Snr. could be a total nutjob. You can probably download/stream Part 1 if you need to see it.
But how credible is she? The fact she calls him Butchie when the family and friends did not do that is a ajor red flag. In my eyes hee claims are no more credible than the Nonewitzes. It is way too easy for peopel to make crap up years later when no one is around who can correct the record.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:01 am

In the sea of :) flower :) that is Shattered Hopes, her and her son come off as the MOST credible. But you're right, this doesn't mean she get a free pass. And when they didn't run away after being told about Geraldine (who wouldn't have been in hiding before the murders) then that also raises a red flag.

scipio-USMC
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by scipio-USMC » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:17 am

sherbetbizarre wrote:In the sea of :) flower :) that is Shattered Hopes, her and her son come off as the MOST credible. But you're right, this doesn't mean she get a free pass. And when they didn't run away after being told about Geraldine (who wouldn't have been in hiding before the murders) then that also raises a red flag.
That is a good point, they buy all of Geraldine's BS about the family being so violent and dysfunctional. That speaks poorly to how well they knew the family to believe such claims and to not recognize Geraldine as a fraud. The people who knew them well and were close to the victims apparently want nothing to do with Katzenbach's circus.

I personally don't think anyone Katzenbach sought out was particularly credible except the judge.

Victoria Principles
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:14 am

Corporal Scipio,

You don't know nor have you ever met any of the DeFeos, any of their surviving relatives, or any of their friends, acquaintances, neighbors. I would take the word of people who actually knew them over anything you have to say. Anyone who actually knew the DeFeos and said anything negative about them (outside of Ronnie), you call them either liars or mentally ill. There was talk going back to the time of the murders about how dysfunctional, loud the DeFeos were. The Amityville Historical Society even said the DeFeos were not a happy family. But in your world, all of these people are either liars or mentally ill.

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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by scipio-USMC » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:05 am

Victoria Principles wrote:Corporal Scipio,

You don't know nor have you ever met any of the DeFeos, any of their surviving relatives, or any of their friends, acquaintances, neighbors. I would take the word of people who actually knew them over anything you have to say. Anyone who actually knew the DeFeos and said anything negative about them (outside of Ronnie), you call them either liars or mentally ill. There was talk going back to the time of the murders about how dysfunctional, loud the DeFeos were. The Amityville Historical Society even said the DeFeos were not a happy family. But in your world, all of these people are either liars or mentally ill.


The fact of the matter is that reputable family members and friends stated that DeFeo was not referred to as Butch. The police clale dhim it because he told them he wanted to be called it and claied that was what his family called him but it is clear he lied about such just like he initially lied about so many other things.

Thus when Gagitano calls him Butchie it demonstrates she is not operating on the basis of doing so in th epast but becaus eo fGerladine referring to him as it, as well as Osuna and Katzenbach. What independent verificaiton is ther eof how well she knew them? None we are just supposed to take her word for it. The fact she accepts Gerladien and all her related claims means either 1 of 2 things- either she didn't know the family well enough to know they were all lies or she doesn't care and is joining in the liars because she also likes the attention. In either case it means one has to be careful at accepting any of her claims.

Since the late 1980s the Nonnewitzes have consistently lied about Dawn asking them to take her to Florida to visit Billy Davidge. We know they lied because Davidge didn't move to Florida until after Ron was convicted. Billy Davidge was not in Florida so there would be no reason for Dawn to ask them to take her there to visit him.

For that matter Billy Davidge, Frank Davidge and other friends of Defeo also lied to support him. The only peopel who seem to care about the truth and in fact the people who knew the victims best have refused to talk publicly. Patty Fagan was there many times a week and would be in the best position to know about the family situation outside of family members.

Rational people want reliable witnesses which requires the witness 1) being in a position to know things and 2) having the motivation to tell the full truth.

Just because someone claims they know the fmaily well doesn't mean they actually do and actually are in a position to know anything. Indeed many people over the years have repeated things they read or heard as opposed to things they witnessed and that includes the cop who repeated a claim he read. He read a claim that DellaPenna identified the caliber of bullet at the scene so police knew the caliber right away. But Dellapenna in fact had stated he SUSPECTED the caliber right away but waited until he was able to measure the bullets at the lab and to confirm they were .35 claiber before he told any police.

Just about everyone who knew DeFeo and has spoken out has told lies at one time or the other, usually to help him but obviously other motivations also were in play.

If you want to believe lies that is your problem. You are so childish and immature you think calling me a rank I never held is a way to attack me. Your posts here never contribute anything but instead are always trollish in character. Other than parroting what other peopel write you seem to have no true knowledge about this case at all and it seems you come here just because you have nothing at all in your life. How sad it must be in your world.

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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:01 pm

Corporal Scipio, you should try typing while sober.

scipio-USMC
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by scipio-USMC » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:31 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:Corporal Scipio, you should try typing while sober.
Exactly the kind of childish comment that demonstrates rational thought is beyond you. Perhaps those who tolerate you or would even consider dating you need to be drunk and that is the problem you face- those here ar enot drunk so your adolescent nonsense is not welcome.

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TigresMeow
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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by TigresMeow » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:30 am

Victoria - ENOUGH of the catty remarks.
If you're gonna kick a tiger in the ass, you better have a plan to deal with it's teeth.

RIP 15

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Re: URGENT - Help needed about the Defeo Story

Post by Amityville Rock » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:07 pm

Some real history concerning the infamous house you might find interesting my British friend:

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.p ... Amityville

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_John_Underhill

I was one of the researchers who originally discovered this information years ago, and shared it on the internet.

A further possible connection being information that many of the bodies were moved down the street via what is now the Amityville Creek for burial, likely to the site of the house. However I could never confirm this rumor with hard evidence. However the nearby massacre happened, that is a fact.
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