Dawn's Headboard

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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Dan the Damned
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Dawn's Headboard

Post by Dan the Damned » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:01 pm

The following posts were deleted from this thread due to an accident:




pylas wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:28 pm
If you seen the crime scene photos of Dawn's room, you would probably remember the headboard on Dawn's bed didn't have any blood splatter on it. Dawn was shot point-blank in the head, and there were blood and guts on her nightgown, but her headboard was untouched from the blood and matter and remained dry. So there could be a possibility that Dawn was up and out of bed when she was shot, and been placed back in her bed like she didn't wake up during the shooting. It's just very strange that nothing around her was covered in blood, not even her pillows around her. If you look at Allison's crime scene photos, there was blood everywhere. Can anyone help support this point?


Anarane wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:08 pm
Depends on what testimony you read, but Ronnie has said several times that he wiped down/cleaned up some scenes, although I can't recall why. There was plenty of blood/brain matter on the bedding though and given the position/pathway of the bullet discussed at trial, it seems Dawn died exactly where she was found.


msmart112 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:39 pm
pylas wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:28 pm
If you seen the crime scene photos of Dawn's room, you would probably remember the headboard on Dawn's bed didn't have any blood splatter on it. Dawn was shot point-blank in the head, and there were blood and guts on her nightgown, but her headboard was untouched from the blood and matter and remained dry. So there could be a possibility that Dawn was up and out of bed when she was shot, and been placed back in her bed like she didn't wake up during the shooting. It's just very strange that nothing around her was covered in blood, not even her pillows around her.
Stop thinking about what you've seen on TV or at the movie theater...this is the real world.

Ronnie used a very powerful weapon...and the shot had a downward (forward) trajectory...hence no blood on the headboard.

Very simple to comprehend if you take a moment to really think about it.


Anarane wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:37 am
In fairness to pylas, they mentioned the crime scene photographs, not the movies.


gd134 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:21 am
msmart112 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:39 pm
pylas wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:28 pm
If you seen the crime scene photos of Dawn's room, you would probably remember the headboard on Dawn's bed didn't have any blood splatter on it. Dawn was shot point-blank in the head, and there were blood and guts on her nightgown, but her headboard was untouched from the blood and matter and remained dry. So there could be a possibility that Dawn was up and out of bed when she was shot, and been placed back in her bed like she didn't wake up during the shooting. It's just very strange that nothing around her was covered in blood, not even her pillows around her.
Stop thinking about what you've seen on TV or at the movie theater...this is the real world.

Ronnie used a very powerful weapon...and the shot had a downward (forward) trajectory...hence no blood on the headboard.

Very simple to comprehend if you take a moment to really think about it.
Did you know that this "forward" trajectory literally blew half of dawn's head off, inches away from the headboard? What a ridiculous claim :fp: .


sherbetbizarre wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:38 am
What would motivate Butch to clean her headboard?


jimmysmokes wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:55 am
What would motivate butch to clean up the entire house like it claims in your great High Hopes book you like so much?


sherbetbizarre wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:21 am
I don't recall championing HH that much - but I'd say it's still the best text out there for the truth - even if Sullivan tidied up the narrative to suit him, just like Bugliosi did with Helter Skelter.

And rather than cleaning up "the whole house", Butch did gather up the shell-casings, which would delayed identifying the murder weapon by several hours - which at least makes some sense.



jimmysmokes wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:59 pm
Now it stated in Sullivan's book that Ronnie said that the house was a Sh!thole mess after the murders and that he cleaned up the house afterwards! I'm wondering why he bothered at all? And what did he clean?

Of course Sullivan tidied up the narrative (book) to suit himself! The guy had an ego problem himself, just as the murderer did. Check out what Ryan says about Sullivan's "judge-shopping" in his flick. Actually some truth there!!


msmart112 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:21 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:Now it stated in Sullivan's book that Ronnie said that the house was a Sh!thole mess after the murders and that he cleaned up the house afterwards! I'm wondering why he bothered at all? And what did he clean?
From High Hopes...

DeFeo seemed to think it was important that he cleaned up the house after the murders. “Everything was thrown all over the place. It looked like a shithouse. Shell casings all over the place. It was a big mess. So rather than not be a pig, because I’m not a pig, I cleaned the place up. I picked everything up, nice and neat.”

...the only thing he specifically mentioned was shell casings.
jimmysmokes wrote:Of course Sullivan tidied up the narrative (book) to suit himself! The guy had an ego problem himself, just as the murderer did. Check out what Ryan says about Sullivan's "judge-shopping" in his flick. Actually some truth there!!
No need to bring Ryan into this...simply refer to High Hopes...

I was about to engage in a time-honored strategy that defense lawyers and prosecutors have honed into an art form. Some called it “judge shopping.” By any name, it is something most lawyers practice but don’t preach. When judges do it, they call it “case shopping.”

...Sullivan had no shame...it's what lawyers do.



jimmysmokes wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:08 am
So Ron only picked up 8 shell casings? What a mess to pick up! I think cleaning the house would involve a bit more don’t you think?

Yeah I know Sullivan had no shame. You said well!


km2020 wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:50 am
I don't know much about these particulars of the case, but he picked up the shell casings?

Does that mean he picked them up in each room at the time he shot them, or did he go back through later and pick them up?

It's bad enough he shot them, but if he went back through to pick up the casings then he is more than stone cold hearted. I don't know how to wrap my head around that. If he went back through to pick them up later, he has no remorse.


Buick - 1975 wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:55 am
km2020 wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:50 am
So Ron only picked up 8 shell casings? What a mess to pick up! I think cleaning the house would involve a bit more don’t you think?

Yeah I know Sullivan had no shame. You said well!
I don't know much about these particulars of the case, but he picked up the shell casings?

Does that mean he picked them up in each room at the time he shot them, or did he go back through later and pick them up?

It's bad enough he shot them, but if he went back through to pick up the casings then he is more than stone cold hearted. I don't know how to wrap my head around that. If he went back through to pick them up later, he has no remorse.
Here's what Butch said at trial:

Image
ImageImage


km2020 wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:48 pm
Wow. I never knew this before. Sounds like it was premeditated. It doesn't sound like he was on drugs at the time. So not only did he kill them, but he stayed in the house long enough to clean up and take a shower?

With the bodies of the people in the house he just killed?

With all that trouble, he could have grilled a steak and had some beers if he was that comfortable with what he did. And no time did he even think maybe the neighbors might have heard something?

He had plenty of time to formulate an alibi or get out of town. Wow, this man is stupid. So why didn't he call the police from his own house instead of running to a bar? He said "I think my mother and father were shot". No one questioned that? If he were in the house if the mafia did it, he would have known they were shot. Even if someone broke in to rob the place, he would have known. But here's even more things he should have thought about, if a stranger did it or the mafia, they would have had to know where his and Dawn's bedrooms were but they didn't find his bedroom and they didn't try to find his bedroom? No one said "you were in the house, but you don't know if they were shot, yet you were hiding in the house when the shootings happened?" I'm not a brilliant lawyer, but I can see through that one.

A stranger would not know the layout of the house. They certainly would have had to know where Ron Sr. and Louise's bedroom was because it makes no sense to shoot the kids first not knowing where Ron is with a weapon.

Even I know that, you don't go after the easy targets first. And also, did he not think in his story that the claim he makes of the mafia, wouldn't they know Ron Jr. would also be in the house with a weapon? Everybody knew Butch kept rifles.

This man piled stupid on stupid to make a giant hill of stupid. Sorry to use the word stupid, but I don't know how else to say it. It's no wonder William Weber had to use the insanity defense. If there were a stupid defense, William Weber would have won hands down.

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