Tell me lies...

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics

Postby TIA » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:11 pm

FoxyJ wrote:I have previously expressed my surprise that a man so apparently anti-social was/is able to persuade others to lie on his behalf.


Why? It's part of the very condition he's diagnosed with.

No one?s point of view should ever be considered redundant.

I wasn't saying the point of view was redundant. I was saying secret documents are to the discussion.

Agreed. The DeFeo family were the innocent victims of this dreadful crime, of that there can be no doubt. Like many other people, I look for reasons why a son could, without warning, take up a rifle and systematically slaughter the very people he professes to have loved and with whom he says he had a close relationship. To ?normal? people going about their daily lives and coping with all the many problems that presents, such an act is inconceivable. It is hardly surprising that many of us are seeking the reasons for his behaviour.


How about the crime Defeo had just been involved with, and his father's response (withdrawing money) as a trigger?


Of course patients are released if it is considered they are ?cured,? but, unlike, regular prisons, great care is taken when doing so.

As far as I am aware, only if they are eligible for parole. They are still prisonors serving a sentence, even if they are held in a different type of facility.

It matters not a wit whether I ?like it or not? but I stand by my statement that if RJD wishes to try to clear his name of the stigma of ?Child-killer,? then that is his right and if he wishes to have items of evidence ?tested? at no cost to the State, I fail to understand why this would not be allowed especially as Judge Stark originally agreed with conditions that have been satisfied by RJD?s paternal grandmother?s lodging of the necessary expenses.


Because it's not their job to humour a mass murderer. It's not a question, I think, of why won't they, but why should they? He doesn't as far as I can tell have a legal right to demand redundant tests.
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Postby TIA » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:25 pm

Tigre§Meow© wrote:Is it possible that the reason testing wasn't done on Dawn's nightgown was because of the location of the powder burns? Maybe no testing was done because it was on the rear shoulder of her nightgown which would have come from being shot at such a close range?


That would make sense.
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Postby FoxyJ » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:52 pm

TIA wrote:
Tigre§Meow© wrote:Is it possible that the reason testing wasn't done on Dawn's nightgown was because of the location of the powder burns? Maybe no testing was done because it was on the rear shoulder of her nightgown which would have come from being shot at such a close range?


That would make sense.


It certainly would but it's pure conjecture as the nightgown was never properly examined or tested. If it was, the results are not in the public domain.

Has it been established that Dawn was shot "at such close range?" There was no typical stippling around the entry wound recorded but I suppose it would depend on what one means by 'close range.' One report I read stated that the gun was placed to the back of Dawn's neck and 'blew the left side of her face off." There is no evidence of that in the photographs, there is a clear exit wound on the left forehead and the facial area is intact. The entry wound is less distinct for obvious reasons.

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Postby TigresMeow » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:28 pm

I don't think the gun was put directly to her neck and then fired but I think Ronnie could have stood a certain distance away and powder burns would have ended up on the shoulders of her nightgown. I am in no way an expert on guns. Maybe one of our more knowledgeable members will know just how far away one can stand holding a .35 caliber Marlin and still get powder burns on the shoulders of the victim's nightgown.

Something I have been wondering about these "secret" documents that are only available by subscription or in forums that are not accessible to everyone.....if they contain information that would HELP RDJ, why aren't they made available to the public? One never knows who might be reading the forums. . . . .
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Postby FoxyJ » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:02 pm

TM: The documents on TNC aren't 'secret' they are for members only. Some of the DeFeo documents are no longer available as they were, presumably, there for a restricted period only and have now 'passed their sell-by date.' The remaining are those mostly available elsewhere although there are some that appear to be 'exclusive.' All are interesting but none could possibly be described as being of any 'help' to RJD.

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Postby TigresMeow » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:07 pm

I don't think TNC has anything that isn't available elsewhere. As far as anything out there being "help" to Ronnie, I agree that there isn't anything.
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Postby zzvampy » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:53 pm

Mrs. DeFeo has provided me with much information both from her husband and conveyed to her by other family members.


Once again, who are the "family members" to whom you are referring?

Certainly not Phyllis Procita, Ronnie's Aunt...whom even Tracey herself has admitted to not having the best relationship with.

Speaking of Mrs. Procita, here's a portion of her testimony, I fail to see where she ever claimed abuse. In fact, she claims that Ronnie spent very little time at home, so when, or better yet how did this alleged physical abuse take place?

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Postby msmart112 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:20 pm

Great post ZZ!

Earlier this month on another board, it was stated...

"Hey! try purchasing a copy of the trial transcripts, there are many stories of abuse told by FAMILY members of the DeFeo's."

...MANY stories? And MANY stories told by FAMILY members (as in MORE than ONE)?

Yawn.
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Postby leathermonkey » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:38 pm

nevermind... sorry
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Postby TigresMeow » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:15 pm

I was told it would cost anywhere from $1500 - $2000 to purchase a copy of the transcript. . . . .
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Postby TIA » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:01 am

Tigre§Meow© wrote:I was told it would cost anywhere from $1500 - $2000 to purchase a copy of the transcript. . . . .


Where would you get the transcript from? Is it the court where the trial took place, or a different institution?
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Postby Littlelukey » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:36 am

TIA wrote:
Tigre§Meow© wrote:I was told it would cost anywhere from $1500 - $2000 to purchase a copy of the transcript. . . . .


Where would you get the transcript from? Is it the court where the trial took place, or a different institution?


I would assume you apply through the courts in the state the trial took place I mean you guys have that whole freedom of information thing don't you ? So people should be able to obtain them :?
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Postby TIA » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:40 am

I'm not sure whether that would apply to people outside the US (like me :D ) or who I'd apply to in order to get them.
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Postby FoxyJ » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:23 am

I'm not sure of the position with a non US resident but most trial transcripts are recorded on to tape and anyone wishing to obtain a copy must present these tapes to a transcription service as the tapes are not usable with normal playback equipment.

Fees appear to be by arrangement.

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Postby shattered thoughts » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:07 pm

Anyone interested should look into the Freedom of Information Act. These documents are to be available for the asking, I would guess for a fee, but I don't think as costly as TM has referred...Not sure, I will try looking it up and see if I can get any info on it...
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Postby TigresMeow » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:21 pm

When I asked Tracey a while back, that is the amount she told me.

I know that US citizens can obtain a copy of the transcript under the Freedom of Information Act....not sure about non US residents.
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Postby sherbetbizarre » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:12 am

I also remember Ric saying he spent out a fair bit too... or are they simply trying to ward us poor people off ;)
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Postby zzvampy » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:12 pm

Didn't Ric "borrow" some copies from Barry Springer?
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Re: Tell me lies...

Postby radiomixer » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:38 am

msmart112 wrote:
zzvampy wrote:Ronnie confessed to the police. The SCPD was blamed for beating the confession out of him. Although?in some versions?he received a beating but never confessed.


Going on the basis that there is no such thing as a dumb question, I'll ask: If he claims to have been beaten but didn't confess, how did they find the submerged gun and the items in the storm drain?
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Re: Tell me lies...

Postby msmart112 » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:54 am

radiomixer wrote:Going on the basis that there is no such thing as a dumb question, I'll ask: If he claims to have been beaten but didn't confess, how did they find the submerged gun and the items in the storm drain?


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Re: Tell me lies...

Postby radiomixer » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:08 pm

msmart112 wrote:
radiomixer wrote:Going on the basis that there is no such thing as a dumb question, I'll ask: If he claims to have been beaten but didn't confess, how did they find the submerged gun and the items in the storm drain?


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Hmmm. That appears to be a hand-made map which looks like it's in DeFeo's handwriting, and initialed by him. Am I right? It also appears to be dated the day after the murders.

Thanks Max! You're awesome. :D
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