Tell me lies...

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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radiomixer
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Post by radiomixer » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:43 pm

Tigre§Meow© wrote:Something I have been wondering about these "secret" documents that are only available by subscription or in forums that are not accessible to everyone.....if they contain information that would HELP RDJ, why aren't they made available to the public?
msmart112 wrote:Earlier this month on another board, it was stated...

"Hey! try purchasing a copy of the trial transcripts, there are many stories of abuse told by FAMILY members of the DeFeo's."

...MANY stories? And MANY stories told by FAMILY members (as in MORE than ONE)?
Tigre§Meow© wrote:I was told it would cost anywhere from $1500 - $2000 to purchase a copy of the transcript. . . . .
Tigre§Meow© wrote:When I asked Tracey a while back, that is the amount she told me.
sherbetbizarre wrote:I also remember Ric saying he spent out a fair bit too... or are they simply trying to ward us poor people off ;)
Well, it took me less than fourteen seconds to come up with the government's website on the Freedom Of Information Act. Judge for yourself if these "fee" explanations jibe with what you've been told ...

Fees and Fee Waivers

Fees

There is no initial fee to make a FOIA request, and in many cases no fees are charged. However, agencies are authorized by law to recover the direct costs of providing information to a FOIA requester. For purposes of fees only, the FOIA divides requesters into three categories:


commercial use requesters; news media, educational, or scientific requesters; and
all other requesters. Commercial use requesters are charged for search time, document review, and duplication. News media, educational, and scientific requesters are charged for duplication only, after the first 100 pages. All other requesters are charged for search time (after two hours) and duplication (after 100 pages). In all cases, if the total fee does not exceed $14.00, the Justice Department will not charge any fee at all.

In your request letter you may make a specific statement limiting the amount of fees you are willing to pay. If you do not, the Justice Department will assume that you are willing to pay fees of up to $25.00. If your estimated fees exceed $25.00, you will be given the opportunity to narrow your request in order to reduce the fees or you will be asked to express your commitment to pay the estimated amount. Ordinarily, you will not be required to actually pay the fees until the records have been processed and are ready to be sent to you.

[...]
Fee Waivers

If you expect or are advised that a fee will be charged, you may request a fee waiver of those fees. However, fee waivers are limited to situations in which a requester can show that disclosure of the requested information is in the public interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations and activities of the government and is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester.

Here's the website:
http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/index.html

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FoxyJ
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Post by FoxyJ » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:03 am

There is apparently a token fee for providing the trial transcript tapes themselves but as these are apparently not designed for use with domestic recorders it will be necessary for them to be transcribed to text. It is for this service (provided by others) that a hefty fee is charged.

Fox
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radiomixer
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Post by radiomixer » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:31 pm

FoxyJ wrote:There is apparently a token fee for providing the trial transcript tapes themselves but as these are apparently not designed for use with domestic recorders it will be necessary for them to be transcribed to text. It is for this service (provided by others) that a hefty fee is charged.
Your post raises a few questions. I'd appreciate some answers, especially since none of these replies require links.

1. On what form of tape are these transcripts?

2. Who told you the transcripts were on this type of tape?

3. Please define/elaborate on what you mean by "domestic recorders."

Thanks in advance,

Beck

Littlelukey
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Post by Littlelukey » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:32 pm

One question myself.... If people are so curious about trial transcripts and they apparently don't cost so much why not just apply for them and be done with it :?

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FoxyJ
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Post by FoxyJ » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:03 am

radiomixer wrote:
FoxyJ wrote:There is apparently a token fee for providing the trial transcript tapes themselves but as these are apparently not designed for use with domestic recorders it will be necessary for them to be transcribed to text. It is for this service (provided by others) that a hefty fee is charged.
Your post raises a few questions. I'd appreciate some answers, especially since none of these replies require links.

1. On what form of tape are these transcripts?

A. Please click link below - thank you.

2. Who told you the transcripts were on this type of tape?

A. Google - I just typed in, "how do I obtain a trial transcript"

3. Please define/elaborate on what you mean by "domestic recorders."

A. Tape recorders upon which one plays video tapes in a private residence.

Thanks in advance,

Beck
'Twas just a Google away, hope it helps:

http://www.nyscourtofclaims.state.ny.us/transcript.htm

Fox
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radiomixer
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Post by radiomixer » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:11 am

FoxyJ wrote:
radiomixer wrote:
FoxyJ wrote:There is apparently a token fee for providing the trial transcript tapes themselves but as these are apparently not designed for use with domestic recorders it will be necessary for them to be transcribed to text. It is for this service (provided by others) that a hefty fee is charged.
Your post raises a few questions. I'd appreciate some answers, especially since none of these replies require links.

1. On what form of tape are these transcripts?

A. Please click link below - thank you.

2. Who told you the transcripts were on this type of tape?

A. Google - I just typed in, "how do I obtain a trial transcript"

3. Please define/elaborate on what you mean by "domestic recorders."

A. Tape recorders upon which one plays video tapes in a private residence.

Thanks in advance,

Beck
'Twas just a Google away, hope it helps:

http://www.nyscourtofclaims.state.ny.us/transcript.htm

Fox
Thanks very much indeed! I had no idea that they depended on solely one configuration (four track). However, It's not hard to find four-track recorders here; they are not so rare as to be unobtainable; here's a sampling on eBay.
http://search.ebay.com/four-track-recorder_W0QQfromZR41

Tascams are prolly the best of the lot, and as you can see some are very reasonably priced. I know quite a few folks that have them, but then such equipment is common to deejays who mix multiple tracks of music.

At first I thought it an odd choice, then I remembered, likely multiple microphones.

I would suggest if someone wants transcripts stored in this medium, get them as soon as you can. Iron oxide is one of the components of the tape it does slowly fade with age, and most importantly, each time that tape is played, that iron oxide comes off on the playback heads and the capstans that guide the tape. So literally every time it's played, the recording integrity fades a bit.

The thing is, I'm surprised they aren't using digital recording process by now. It would be much easier to preserve the integrity of the masters that way.

BTW you mentioned "video" -- to the best of my knowledge, four-tracks record audio only. But thanks for the hints, I find this intriguing! Will let you know what else I find out, thanks for pointing me in a direction!

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t00nCiNaToR
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Post by t00nCiNaToR » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:39 pm

I remember I was almost Lynched at the mere suggestion that the total cost for trial trancripts would/should not exceed $100 and suggested buying it and selling cheap hard copies to members here to offset it... sheesh... ;)

Oh yeah, 108 Ocean is NOT worth $1,000,000 - $100,000,000 as some people have suggested, it's only worth that to them. It's a $500,000 - $650,000 home at the MOST and that's only because it's Riverfront and it's close proximity to the City. heh heh take that!! ;)
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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msmart112
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Post by msmart112 » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:10 pm

t00nCiNaToR wrote:I remember I was almost Lynched at the mere suggestion that the total cost for trial trancripts would/should not exceed $100 and suggested buying it and selling cheap hard copies to members here to offset it... sheesh... ;)

Oh yeah, 108 Ocean is NOT worth $1,000,000 - $100,000,000 as some people have suggested, it's only worth that to them. It's a $500,000 - $650,000 home at the MOST and that's only because it's Riverfront and it's close proximity to the City. heh heh take that!! ;)
The trial transcripts could easily cost upwards of several thousand dollars.

108 would easily fetch close to a million (if not better).
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msmart112
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Post by msmart112 » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:49 pm

Here's what $600,000 to $650,000 will fetch in Amityville...

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...throw in two or three more bedrooms, an extra bathroom or two, a garage, and a boathouse...

...and then add a basement...

...and then put the house directly on the the waterfront...

...and you're looking at a million...easily.
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t00nCiNaToR
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Post by t00nCiNaToR » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:12 pm

HAHAHAHA Don't get me started on this... it's not, in spite what you guess or imagine worth that much, except to you, I already posted a link awhile back of what houses were going for on Ocean Ave. the average price... ??? $400,000 and these are places where people were not murdered in... ;) Not to mention the fact that a 3 year old could throw a ball and it wouldn't land in the neighbours yard...Or have drive-by gawkers and boogie hunters on yer lawn taking pictures everyday. But I still knew someone would bite... hahahaha!!! WOO HOO MSMART!!!

***EDIT***

It goes both ways, here's a 9 bedroom for $599,990.00

If yer looking for the most expensive house, you'll find it, but the average is around 400k...

http://livingchoices.com/home/homedetai ... 1&mid=5600

HAHAHAHA $8900.00 A year taxes!!! Well, guess I'll stay in Canada... ;)

108 Ocean is a very small house with very small bedrooms... I also doubt it's a 6 bedroom anymore, looks to me like he knocked the wall down between Allison's and the boy's room and made it an Office or something... He may have even knocked out the wall between the Master Bedroom and the TV room making it a 4 bedroom home. It was just waaaaay to small.

I would like to see pictures more at night with the lights on, or better yet see them come on in person, if he flicks on a switch and both front or back 2nd floor windows light up at the same time, you know that's what he did, I know I would have. I imagine even ole' Butchie wouldn't recognize it anymore, inside or out.

I just have to add this... The kitchen had NO counter/cupboard space at all in the 70's, and the DeFeos put their fridge in the Hall at the top of the basement stairs... Imagine not having your fridge in your kitchen, seems silly right, but that's what you get when you have a house that was built when small Iceboxes were all the rage... ;). But with that Sunroom addition Mr.Wilson put on the back probably almost doubled his Kitchen/Dining room sq. footage... way to go!

***EDIT***

PS. That's probably why all the ghosts left in the first place, they were always bumping into new Furniture/Closets/Fridges and couldn't get comfortable. Or it may have changed the Fung Shui enough for them to leave for good... ;)

PSS. MSMART, If you're ever in the market for River Front property and expect or want to pay $1,000,000 for it, give me a call, I'll find you something real nice, and pocket the remaining $400,000... And I can almost guarantee you that no family would have been massacred there... what more could you ask for? heh heh heh.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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msmart112
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Post by msmart112 » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:01 pm

If Mr. Wilson ever decides he's sick of the gawkers...he could always sell 108 and make a lateral move into this...

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:P
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t00nCiNaToR
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Post by t00nCiNaToR » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:17 pm

There's a sucker born every minute... But I would look at another site for real estate... that one yer on seems a little expensive. ;)
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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msmart112
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Post by msmart112 » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:04 pm

Well...if I find a house I like...can you give me some tips on how to haggle the price down? :wink:
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radiomixer
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Post by radiomixer » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:45 pm

I believe the history of the property itself somewhat cancels out one's typical real estate assessment. It would likely fetch higher than it's comparable counterparts. But then I imagine getting past the Amityville's powers-that-be might have a say in it also. If memory serves, someone famous once wanted to buy it ... (somehow I think they'd turn Marilyn Manson down, for example).

It's been many years since my Mom worked in real estate for a while, so I checked with a couple of friends, one in the business and in the mortgage business earlier today. Both agreed the house could sell for hundreds of thousands more due to notoriety alone. For some reason, some people like living at/near death scenes. Nicole Brown Simpson's condo sold high, for example. (But it sat for a while, and the owners remodeled the facade.)

Here's an interesting article Sherb posted (I think Max found it?) that gives both sides of the story in infamous real estate:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... .htm?csp=1

But Amityville is unique in it's "haunted" status, so I think it would sell higher. NY and CA real estate is also more costly in general, etc., via demand ....

Hi Tooncey!!! ::::waves enthusiastically::::: !

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t00nCiNaToR
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Post by t00nCiNaToR » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:05 am

msmart112 wrote:Well...if I find a house I like...can you give me some tips on how to haggle the price down? :wink:
Of course I would... Just remember, for every person under the age of 16 who was slain in an expensive house, subtract $80,000 and everyone over that age subtract a mere $25,000 off the asking price, if there was a drive-by and they only died in the front yard subtract $6,000 for each gang member or whatever the case may be. If the house is reportedly haunted, subtract an easy $100,000. It may seem cool to spend a night in a haunted house and I do believe they exist but you wouldn't want to live there. Especially if they're malovent. It's cute when little things move around at night and you notice when you wake up the next day but when drawers/doors/windows are opening and slamming shut all night long it makes for a real long night and sleep is not easily reached. Therefor you'll lose your job/home/wife and kids then end up bankrupt and living in a very inexpensive fridge container under a bridge somewhere. So be warned.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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Millergirl#4
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Post by Millergirl#4 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:40 am

LOL Toonce, I love reading your posts! While I don't always agree with what you say, you do make some valid, intelligent points. Good on ya my fellow Canuck!

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Post by dnddad324 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:51 pm

As far as history goes, 112/108 Ocean Avenue has always sold for far less than it is worth.
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radiomixer
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Post by radiomixer » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:04 pm

dnddad324 wrote:As far as history goes, 112/108 Ocean Avenue has always sold for far less than it is worth.
That's a good point, Dad, and true of course. The reason I think it'd sell higher now is due to the additional history, and how much more well-known the property is now that it's been publicized so much since the Cromartys and Wilsons have lived there, even if it *was* via mediocre movies and the occasional documentary on various cable channels.

Secondly, there was both the murder *and* haunting stigma attached to the house when the Cromartys, and then the Wilsons moved in. However, at least publicly, these two families have, on the main, made statements that there has allegedly been no 'haunting' activity since they've lived there. These opinions too might weigh in with a potential buyer. I feel pretty confident that a real-estate agent showing the property would be sure to point that out [lack of haunting activity (times) length of time the house has been 'quiet' (times) number of tenants undisturbed, etc.].

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t00nCiNaToR
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Post by t00nCiNaToR » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:34 am

Trust me, if you lived there, you'd always be disturbed, I imagine he'd be very lucky to have one day where someone was not driving by/stopping and taking pictures... heh heh, I had this dream last night, pretty strange... that the house REALLY is still haunted, so much so that nobody can live there and in reality there is a Brian Wilson but he lives next door, the house facing the backdoor of 108 and he is simply a caretaker of the house ie. He comes home from work, parks in the driveway of 108 and goes through the front door, waters the plants, turns on the Auto light switches ect. then goes out the back door to the house next door where he lives. And in the morning reverses his course. Giving the House the appearence of being lived in. HAHAHAHA anyway in the dream he asked me to fill in for him, but me, being as brave as I am decided to live there for real... heh heh, I was scared as Hell the first night!!! Ghosts everywere!!!AAAAAAAAH!!!

***EDIT***
Haunting is not really the issue, but it doesn't help to sell... the mere fact that a family of 6 was slain and left to decompose in the bedrooms signifigantly reduces the price of the house, as well as the tourists, trespassers and drunk teenagers who still stop by and visit on a daily basis. You don't have the makings of a peacefull existence there. The home has never sold to normal people for what it was worth and never will.

What do you think happened to that business man that bought the house, he went public wanting to live in a "Haunted" house and the deal was squashed! By who you ask??? Let's just say that pressure was more than likely put on the real estate company by the powers that be to make sure that deal never went through, residents of Ocean Ave. have alot of say as to what happens in the neighbourhood I'm sure, and probably have a "Horror" Commitee to see that nothing like the "Lutz" deal ever happends again. ;)

On another note... Anyone catch A Haunting - Gateway to Hell!! Last night? It's called "Bobby Mackie's" it's bar in Kentucky. Anyway there are people that can't/won't ever go in that bar, it's just too evil, there have been police and clerical reports of sitings as well, strange as it may seem, the owner has no bad feelings or has never seen anything strange there since he bought it, but many many others have to this day, is it possible that this guy is like Brian Wilson and has blinders on or at least a good psychological force field that would block or even better stop any and all activity around him? In that case, maybe Holzer is right, It may just be a matter of time untill another family moves into 108 and are a little more sensitve and it could all start back up... right down to possibly even Murder, The previous owner of the bar closed it because in the time he was running it there were six murders in and outside the bar. I don't know what would scare the owners more, The Ghosts, or the sheer ammount of American beer I can drink... heh heh!!! Anyway it looks pretty cool and one of the most Haunted places in the USA. Think I have a road trip coming this winter... ;)

PS. The bar really does have a covered well in the basement with water(And Maybe Ghosts) in the bottom and everything, it was said that a couple of dentists in the 1870's killed some pregnant girl, decapitated her and threw her head down the well of what was at the time a Slaughter House. They were both hung and one of the men as his last words Cursed the slaughter house and anyone that goes there for all time. Then later this building was erected on the same property and even the corner of the place is resting on the original foundation. Creepy-ness... heh heh.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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TigresMeow
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Post by TigresMeow » Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:49 pm

Hmmm Toonce....I had a very strange dream about Tracey DeFeo last nite. She kept cooking all this food and bringing it to my house and with each dish she brought she would give me a reason as to why Ronnie should get paroled.


I don't think I am gonna eat any more peanuts before I go to bed. :D
If you're gonna kick a tiger in the ass, you better have a plan to deal with it's teeth.

RIP 15

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t00nCiNaToR
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Post by t00nCiNaToR » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:15 pm

Tigre§Meow© wrote:Hmmm Toonce....I had a very strange dream about Tracey DeFeo last nite. She kept cooking all this food and bringing it to my house and with each dish she brought she would give me a reason as to why Ronnie should get paroled.


I don't think I am gonna eat any more peanuts before I go to bed. :D
HAHAHAHA That must have been a seventy-five course meal with a menu that constantly changes... heh heh... ;)
Millergirl#4 wrote:LOL Toonce, I love reading your posts! While I don't always agree with what you say, you do make some valid, intelligent points. Good on ya my fellow Canuck!
What??? you don't agree with everything I say?? Humbug, from now on when you feel yourself starting to not agree with me, just say "No" out loud, that feeling will pass.

PS. Thanks... ;)
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

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