Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
coscia22
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by coscia22 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:19 am

he did talk about defeo he said he was a nice guy when he wasnt going crazy my uncle also said him and defeo got to become very good friends in jail wich was the way they met...the murders happend about the same time so they met in jail in suffolk county long island.. he said defeo was a good person in heart he just lost it one night ..yes they were very close friends but only cause they were in jail together...and the pictures ima talk to my father and let all of you no the truth of where those pictures were taken

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BillyCigars
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by BillyCigars » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:40 pm

Looks like we're about to add another 25 years to the release date of Shat' Hopes.
"The old man's still an artist with a Thompson."

vance
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by vance » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:35 am

Coscia22, I have info your uncle may not have known when he made up his story. Karen wasn’t home until after midnight. She was out with my church group roller skating, not lying home dead waiting for her mom to find someone to blame it on. The police don’t even know that. I was 12, she was 11. She was my girlfriend. Your uncle was in the house when we dropped her off. Her mom was not there. I'm sure your family would like to change history, but I was there.

The "7th body" was Karen. It was obvious Rick got the photo out of the records alphabetically and grabbed a few too many.
If her little brother ever reads this, I would love to hear from you. Karen's last night was a very happy one for her. She was my girlfriend.

It was quite a trip seeing her name on this Amityville web site along with the newspaper article. I had no idea it was the same week as those killings. Very weird.

Vance
in 1974, 23 Warner Ln., Lake Ronkonkoma.

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Dan the Damned » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:31 pm

Welcome, Vance. Thanks for posting about a subject that I'm sure brings back terrible emotions.

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astonio
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by astonio » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:06 pm

WOW
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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Shawn
Been there, Done that
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Shawn » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:27 pm

astonio wrote:WOW

Yea...what stony said...WOW.
Any and all comments made by the poster "Shawn" are purely his opinion and do not reflect the opinions of the board owners, administrators or moderators. Also, all postings done by the member "Shawn" are property of "Shawn" and cannot be reproduced in any way shape or form without written permission from the poster known here(@http://www.amityvillefaq.com) as "Shawn". TIA.

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Tim
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Tim » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:13 pm

That first-person testimony blows me away. Welcome to the board Vance.
"Things of this nature happen quite frequently,and when they happen to families, they usually close the door and they don't talk about it; and unless these things are talked about, they'll never be understood." - Kathy Lutz

rcgibbs
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by rcgibbs » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:18 pm

i wonder if coscia keeps up with this topic on here still and reply.....

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tomspy77
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by tomspy77 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:45 am

It's amazing that this came together like this.

Vance, that must have been quite a shock back then and also quite an odd feeling finding this stuff on the internet. Hope all is well with you.

vance
Amityville Member
Posts: 13

Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by vance » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:22 am

It was 36 years ago so I don’t remember much from before that day and just a few things after as I must have been shielded from the event. My mother will be up from Florida visiting this Christmas so I will, for the first time, ask her what she remembers. I had no contact with the family after that night.
We were roller skating in Levittown and when the van was dropping us off Karen got out at my house. Mom wasn’t happy because she had to get up to drive Karen home. I rode along. At Karen’s house it was dark but she ran to the front door and got right in so we drove away.
The next day in school a friend ran up to me to tell me Karen was dead. I didn’t believe him and as Karen was in a different school I wouldn’t have seen her anyway. When the school bus dropped me off at Shore road and Warner lane Mom’s car was waiting for me to go to a dentist appointment. When I got in the car she asked me if I was all right and I guess that was when I knew it was real. In the dentist office the radio was on and they reported on the murder. I said to the dentist “that was my girlfriend” and he was quiet the rest of the appointment.
I saw a newspaper article and remember Ronkonkoma was spelled wrong. It’s strange what little things stuck with me. It was never discussed in my house, I never returned to Karen’s house, and I never knew of a funeral. It was all kept from me. I never forgot and every few years after the internet did searches for information. It was here I found this strange association in that book and the crime scene photo.
One thing not in the article posted here, but something I clearly remember was the reports back in 1974 said she was raped and stabbed with a butcher knife. That is how I remember the crime. I may have to go to Suffolk County and look that up myself. It sure would be enough to disprove Coscia22’s story. If Vito was simply framed for just one murder, why did he spend the rest of his life in prison? Coscia22 said his uncle spent 35 years in prison and died in there? Does that mean he just died this past year? I don’t think so.

Blue
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Blue » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:44 pm

vance wrote: We were roller skating in Levittown and when the van was dropping us off Karen got out at my house. Mom wasn’t happy because she had to get up to drive Karen home. I rode along. At Karen’s house it was dark but she ran to the front door and got right in so we drove away.
This doesn't really jive with your previous remarks to Coscia22. How do you know that his uncle was there and that her mother was not? Was that something you found out later or did you see who let her in or something like that? I am not doubting your word, just curious...
If Vito was simply framed for just one murder, why did he spend the rest of his life in prison? Coscia22 said his uncle spent 35 years in prison and died in there? Does that mean he just died this past year? I don’t think so.
I don't know whether he was framed or what happened either (and you clearly know more than I about this particular case) but according to New York DOC records, Vito died in 2006. http://nysdocslookup.docs.state.ny.us/G ... Q3/WINQ130 which means he served 30 years before his death. He was apparently sentenced to 15 years to Life for Second Degree Murder. There doesn't appear to be any other charges associated with incarceration at least, but he was denied parole (probably a number of times) since he became eligible in 1989. I believe parole hearings are held every 2 years, so it is likely he was denied many times.

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Shawn
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Shawn » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:51 pm

This doesn't really jive with your previous remarks to Coscia22. How do you know that his uncle was there and that her mother was not? Was that something you found out later or did you see who let her in or something like that? I am not doubting your word, just curious...
It's quite possible that he already knew this information prior to his rollerskating date. For example, Karen telling him she would need a ride home because her mother would not be home. I do not see any reason to doubt his words here.
Any and all comments made by the poster "Shawn" are purely his opinion and do not reflect the opinions of the board owners, administrators or moderators. Also, all postings done by the member "Shawn" are property of "Shawn" and cannot be reproduced in any way shape or form without written permission from the poster known here(@http://www.amityvillefaq.com) as "Shawn". TIA.

Blue
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Blue » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:51 pm

Shawn wrote:
It's quite possible that he already knew this information prior to his rollerskating date. For example, Karen telling him she would need a ride home because her mother would not be home. I do not see any reason to doubt his words here.
Of course there is no reason to doubt his word, which is why I specifically said that I am not doubting him. I am just curious if he did know beforehand (and if so how...ie did Karen tell him, did they call ahead or what...) or if it is something he found out later or what. After all, he was pretty concise in saying, "your uncle was in the house when we dropped her off. Her mother was not there." I am just wondering how he knows this considering his later statement of, "At Karen’s house it was dark but she ran to the front door and got right in so we drove away." which makes it sound like he stayed in the car and didn't see who was or was not present.

On one hand we have Coscia22 claiming that his uncle was framed, which none of us can confirm nor deny (and most who probably don't really care except as it relates to the DeFeo case) and we have Vance claiming that Uncle Vito "made up" his story and that he (Vance) can definitely say so knowing that he was at the home without Karen's mother present at the time. I am just wanting to hear the rest of the story...

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msmart112
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by msmart112 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:50 pm

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Blue
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Blue » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:19 pm

msmart112 wrote:Here are some additional articles on the case for anyone interested...
Thanks msmart112 ! I know it is not the subject at hand (for this board) but this case looks like it could have been as controversial as the DeFeo case if it had been more scrutinized. It's interesting that in the first article the mother said she was in the living room and heard screams from the 7 year old at around 1:50, but in the third article linked she says (or someone says) that she had gone to the store, returning at around 1:45 and that's when she discovered the then wounded children. So already something does add up there I think. But even more interesting than that is that the articles about the murder of an 11 year old girl and the attempted murder of her 7 year old brother would continue on about the DeFeo murders. (The first article linked.) I realize they were close together both chronologically and geographically but still...even at the time it seems that the DeFeo murders (I guess a more shocking crime) overshadowed the more "simple" murder of just one young girl. It seems so sad to me.

kathyM
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by kathyM » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:44 am

I agree with Blue, something just doesnt add up with the mother. The brother was critically injured, did he survive? And I never knew there was a third child in the house.

vance
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by vance » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:07 am

Like I said. I was 12. I know it was very late when we dropped her off and she got in the door. The rest matched the story I remembered. Coscia22 said Carol bugged his uncle to come home with her so she could pin it on someone. But Karen was not at home so she was killed later. Coscia's story didn't match Karen being out with me so late so in my mind Vito was there when she got home and her mom was out matching the story I remember.

I'll read those other articles now. Thanks for the extra info everyone.


Read the three posted articles above. I don't think there's a mismatch in the time line. The ladies went out, returned then found the injured kids. Just the original story made it sound like they walked in on in and one of these said they sat down first before hearing the crying. One story called the phone call weird saying she was calm.

I've had one story in my head for 36 years so I may have come off harsh on Coscia but I don't see anything that changes my mind. It would be interesting to see Carol and Vito's statements from back then.

vance
Amityville Member
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by vance » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:42 am

Blue,

Sorry for using this board but it's the first time I've had a discussion about this. I came here because of Rick using her picture for the basis of the 7th body theory in his book. So it is sort of linked. Coscia22 posted his uncles defense here so I jumped in.

Blue
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Posts: 244

Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by Blue » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:45 am

vance wrote:Blue,

Sorry for using this board but it's the first time I've had a discussion about this. I came here because of Rick using her picture for the basis of the 7th body theory in his book. So it is sort of linked. Coscia22 posted his uncles defense here so I jumped in.
Please don't apologize to me...if anything I should be apologizing to you and the board in general for carrying on a tangent. I also didn't mean to come across as disbelieving you (or anyone else). This is the first time I am hearing any details of this particular picture (although somewhere way back in my mind I think I remember hearing vague details such as another murder and possibly Karen's name) so now my weird little brain has gone off wondering what exactly happened there since there is so little information available to me and already we had differing accounts from differing sources.

I don't mean to make you think about unpleasant memories from your childhood and I am wasn't trying to interrogate you or anything...I am just a morbidly curious person wondering about the details. It must have been a horrific time for you and I do appreciate you coming here and telling what you know of it.

vance
Amityville Member
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by vance » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:55 am

I'm OK talking about it. I never had a chance before. And I do like all the information and articles I found here. You folks are good at finding this stuff. Thank You for the information.

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msmart112
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Re: Possible origin of the “bloody shoes” photo?

Post by msmart112 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:26 am

Here's a little more information.

First is an excerpt from High Hopes where Gerard Sullivan describes the case...followed by a summary of Coscia's appeal...


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