2007 parole hearing transcripts

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics

Postby Tim » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:04 pm

Link the Labrador wrote:Agreed. Plus, didn't he once...kinda confess to the crime? Kinda hard to reel it all back if you told them you did it.

That's like saying "I didn't take the cookie from the jar! It was my sister/mafia/my friend!!" after telling Mommy you did and there are cookie crumbs around the jar.


Well,analogy for analogy,RDJr. did go around and pick up all eight cookie crumbs and wiped the headboard free in an attempt to divert suspicion.
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Re:

Postby scipio-USMC » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:57 am

Tim wrote:
Link the Labrador wrote:Agreed. Plus, didn't he once...kinda confess to the crime? Kinda hard to reel it all back if you told them you did it.

That's like saying "I didn't take the cookie from the jar! It was my sister/mafia/my friend!!" after telling Mommy you did and there are cookie crumbs around the jar.


Well,analogy for analogy,RDJr. did go around and pick up all eight cookie crumbs and wiped the headboard free in an attempt to divert suspicion.


The efforts he took were largely worthless and really do illustrate his own stupidity. What did wiping down the headboard accomplish? We know they were killed in their beds what was the point? What about taking the shells? How did taking the shells help? It requires taking the shells and bullets to try to hide what kind of firearm was used and prevent a ballistics match. Criminals who broke in and used a gun they found in the house would have no reason to remove the casings or bullets. They would either leave the gun behind as well or if gutsy would take it with them and use it in other crimes thus revealing the link. Thus better to leave it behind. You only dispose of weapons when they trace back to you. He would have been better off claiming someone broke in, found the gun and killed the family with it then to do what he did. Otherwise he needed to fish out all the bullets including the ones still in the bodies and get rid of them as well as the casings. Then clean the weapon thoroughly and put it back into its storage place. Of course that would make authorities suspicious that the bullets were taken because that only happens if the murder weapon is able to be tied to someone. Still that would have been more effective than what he did.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:17 am

If Ronnie really had any guts, he would have thrown aside the bodies and looked for the bullets. Without the bullets for ballistics, nobody would be able to determine how they died. All they have are holes in their bodies.

Could they have convicted Ronnie without ballistics?
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:59 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:If Ronnie really had any guts, he would have thrown aside the bodies and looked for the bullets. Without the bullets for ballistics, nobody would be able to determine how they died. All they have are holes in their bodies.

Could they have convicted Ronnie without ballistics?


He also would have to have dug some bullets out of the bodies. They still wound have known it was bullet wounds though and could have estimated the weapon that fired them based on exit wounds etc.

How suspicious that would be if his rifle turned up missing as well.

When bullets and casings are removed it is because a gun can be tied to someone. Pros use guns that can't be tied to them and can simply be thrown away.

Him being home during the killings and the only survivor in combo with the circumstances of the bullets being removed probably would have resulted in him being convicted anyway. He needed an excuse to not be hom during the killings. If he actually were married to Geraldine and sometime living in NJ that would have been his excuse but all that was made up well after the fact. He had no competent excuse.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:05 am

scipio-USMC wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:If Ronnie really had any guts, he would have thrown aside the bodies and looked for the bullets. Without the bullets for ballistics, nobody would be able to determine how they died. All they have are holes in their bodies.

Could they have convicted Ronnie without ballistics?


He also would have to have dug some bullets out of the bodies. They still wound have known it was bullet wounds though and could have estimated the weapon that fired them based on exit wounds etc.

How suspicious that would be if his rifle turned up missing as well.

When bullets and casings are removed it is because a gun can be tied to someone. Pros use guns that can't be tied to them and can simply be thrown away.

Him being home during the killings and the only survivor in combo with the circumstances of the bullets being removed probably would have resulted in him being convicted anyway. He needed an excuse to not be hom during the killings. If he actually were married to Geraldine and sometime living in NJ that would have been his excuse but all that was made up well after the fact. He had no competent excuse.


Well, he did leave the house around quarter to five, or so, and that could have been his alibi. But because Ronnie is kind of stupid, he couldn't carry that off.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
scipio-USMC wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:If Ronnie really had any guts, he would have thrown aside the bodies and looked for the bullets. Without the bullets for ballistics, nobody would be able to determine how they died. All they have are holes in their bodies.

Could they have convicted Ronnie without ballistics?


He also would have to have dug some bullets out of the bodies. They still wound have known it was bullet wounds though and could have estimated the weapon that fired them based on exit wounds etc.

How suspicious that would be if his rifle turned up missing as well.

When bullets and casings are removed it is because a gun can be tied to someone. Pros use guns that can't be tied to them and can simply be thrown away.

Him being home during the killings and the only survivor in combo with the circumstances of the bullets being removed probably would have resulted in him being convicted anyway. He needed an excuse to not be hom during the killings. If he actually were married to Geraldine and sometime living in NJ that would have been his excuse but all that was made up well after the fact. He had no competent excuse.


Well, he did leave the house around quarter to five, or so, and that could have been his alibi. But because Ronnie is kind of stupid, he couldn't carry that off.


He didn't need to leave that ewarly that was suspicious alone. To beat traffic you leave 6 maybe not at 4:30am. He only left for work early when he went with his dad. He couldn't care less about being late himself. Who robs a house at 5-6am? Crooks know that is when people begin to wake up and it begins to get light. At that point they wait for people to go to work before trying to rob a house. Especially for a hit they would not pick that hour where neighbors could see them approach and leave and would be more likely to wake from the gunshots. Moreover, a hit on the parents would result in and out not touch the kids unless they got up and witnessed something.

An execution of an entire family is already rare and for it to just manage to happen when he was out of the house would be extremely suspicious. If he wasn't living there then such would not be unusual that he was missed but he was living there.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:37 am

If YOU were Ronnie, how would YOU have tried to get away with murder?
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:45 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:If YOU were Ronnie, how would YOU have tried to get away with murder?


First of all I would not have used one of my guns, I would have bought a throw away model just for the crime. Second I would not have killed them all in bed. I would have woken up the house sufficiently to kill them as they came to investigate. Even if that entailed waking some and getting them into the hall saying mom and dad are hurt then shoot them there. Stage it like an actual robbery gone wrong and then needing to kill witnesses not a family execution. There is no way to know whether neighbors will hear and call police or not. He lucked out that they didn't. A sound suppressor is the best bet to handling that problem, espeically if the murders would be around 1AM. Go out dispose of the weapon, go to a bar stay till closing time, come home, call police claim you were out and came home and found your family dead.

You have to come up with something plausible. His plan was stupid and the one hatched in The Night The DeFeo's died was even more stupid. There was no effort at all built into a logical alibi in that book.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:01 pm

scipio-USMC wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:If YOU were Ronnie, how would YOU have tried to get away with murder?


First of all I would not have used one of my guns, I would have bought a throw away model just for the crime. Second I would not have killed them all in bed. I would have woken up the house sufficiently to kill them as they came to investigate. Even if that entailed waking some and getting them into the hall saying mom and dad are hurt then shoot them there. Stage it like an actual robbery gone wrong and then needing to kill witnesses not a family execution. There is no way to know whether neighbors will hear and call police or not. He lucked out that they didn't. A sound suppressor is the best bet to handling that problem, espeically if the murders would be around 1AM. Go out dispose of the weapon, go to a bar stay till closing time, come home, call police claim you were out and came home and found your family dead.

You have to come up with something plausible. His plan was stupid and the one hatched in The Night The DeFeo's died was even more stupid. There was no effort at all built into a logical alibi in that book.


True-true. (FYI, the neighbors did hear the shots - some reports say - but didn't want to "get involved" with those crazy DeFeos.)
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:19 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
scipio-USMC wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:If YOU were Ronnie, how would YOU have tried to get away with murder?


First of all I would not have used one of my guns, I would have bought a throw away model just for the crime. Second I would not have killed them all in bed. I would have woken up the house sufficiently to kill them as they came to investigate. Even if that entailed waking some and getting them into the hall saying mom and dad are hurt then shoot them there. Stage it like an actual robbery gone wrong and then needing to kill witnesses not a family execution. There is no way to know whether neighbors will hear and call police or not. He lucked out that they didn't. A sound suppressor is the best bet to handling that problem, espeically if the murders would be around 1AM. Go out dispose of the weapon, go to a bar stay till closing time, come home, call police claim you were out and came home and found your family dead.

You have to come up with something plausible. His plan was stupid and the one hatched in The Night The DeFeo's died was even more stupid. There was no effort at all built into a logical alibi in that book.


True-true. (FYI, the neighbors did hear the shots - some reports say - but didn't want to "get involved" with those crazy DeFeos.)


No, the few who claim to have heard something didn't realize it was gunshots until later after learning what happened.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:24 pm

scipio-USMC wrote:
No, the few who claim to have heard something didn't realize it was gunshots until later after learning what happened.


Eight loud reports from a rifle, in the dead of night? I find it hard to believe.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:09 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:
scipio-USMC wrote:
No, the few who claim to have heard something didn't realize it was gunshots until later after learning what happened.


Eight loud reports from a rifle, in the dead of night? I find it hard to believe.



People are ignoring severla things. The shots were in a house thus had to pass through the walls of the house and then pass through the walls of the house of the person hearing it. If asleep such can go unnoticed quite easily and if wakened it would be far from clear it was not the sound of something backfiring if you did manage to hear a few. It could be mistaken for fireworks as well. All were not in rapid succession.

It is not a given someone would think that shots are being fired in a house nearby and to know to call police. The easiest way to tell such noises were coming from a particular house would be to be outside of that that exact house and thus be able to isolate that is where it is from. It is luck when that is the case.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:03 am

scipio-USMC wrote:
Jacobmarley1 wrote:
scipio-USMC wrote:
No, the few who claim to have heard something didn't realize it was gunshots until later after learning what happened.


Eight loud reports from a rifle, in the dead of night? I find it hard to believe.



People are ignoring severla things. The shots were in a house thus had to pass through the walls of the house and then pass through the walls of the house of the person hearing it. If asleep such can go unnoticed quite easily and if wakened it would be far from clear it was not the sound of something backfiring if you did manage to hear a few. It could be mistaken for fireworks as well. All were not in rapid succession.

It is not a given someone would think that shots are being fired in a house nearby and to know to call police. The easiest way to tell such noises were coming from a particular house would be to be outside of that that exact house and thus be able to isolate that is where it is from. It is luck when that is the case.


We don't know if someone maybe had a window or two open. Maybe Big Ronnie slept with a window open, for some coolness. Or a bathroom window? Who knows? You think Ronnie, Jr. would have the sense enough to close any open windows during his murder spree?

And what about screaming? You can usually hear people screaming in the dead of night, and how do we know how long it really took for Ronnie to kill everybody? Maybe kids got out of bed, screamed their heads off, before being escorted back to their beds for execution?

So many "what-if's" to consider. Ronnie ain't talkin', that's for sure.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:18 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:We don't know if someone maybe had a window or two open. Maybe Big Ronnie slept with a window open, for some coolness. Or a bathroom window? Who knows? You think Ronnie, Jr. would have the sense enough to close any open windows during his murder spree?

And what about screaming? You can usually hear people screaming in the dead of night, and how do we know how long it really took for Ronnie to kill everybody? Maybe kids got out of bed, screamed their heads off, before being escorted back to their beds for execution?

So many "what-if's" to consider. Ronnie ain't talkin', that's for sure.



I doubt Ron closed any windows afterwards and doubt anyone had open windows that time of year.

At any rate it is not supposition but fact that not one neighbor recognized hearing gunshots at the time they were fired and thus did not call police. A couple said in retrospect they must have heard the shots but didn't realize it at the time. What was recognized was the dog barking but they had no idea why and did not investigate. Most neighbors slept through it all and heard nothing not even the dog.

Ron's confession spoke to quickly going room to room and being unable to stop. That is most likely indeed how it went down. Dawn and Allison were both in natural sleep positions not contrived ones. It would make little sense to bring them back to their own room to shoot them. It would make more sense to gun them down where they stood. That would actually be more consistent with a robbery gone wrong where they had to shoot witnesses. Moreover, if he told them to go to their own rooms and they complied then Dawn definitely would have called the police from her phone. If he took them all to the boys room told the boys to get in bed then shot them, Dawn and Allison would not after seein gthat have complied and went to their beds as well knowing the same was in store for them.

My family rarely wakes up at night during loud thunderstorms. They ignore our dog barking and don't even remeber it happened. I'm the exception. But then again I barely sleep at all. Just last week our dog was in the window barking at 4am because someone was getting in their car and making noise including what sounded like a ton of change falling. I am the only one who got up to see what he was barking at. In the morning when I told my family why he was barking they all said they didn't even know he barked at that hour.

People take a while to wake up fully. Even if disturbed they will often go back to bed and not even rememebr anything in the morning. A majority of people ignore noises they hear at night and do not get up to investigate. That is a fact. It might be hard to believe but it is a fact.

Ron has shown himself too stupid to make up anything competent. It would not take long to kill the Boys and Allison on the same floor as his parent. His claim that Dawn woke up and called down to see if he was the one making the noise is credible. His account that he told her to go back to bed and that she did is credible. The level of detail such as John's leg twitching was a good sign he was accurately detailing what he happened. When he gave it up, he gave it up fully. If he was going to lie and change anything it would not be to lie about them not waking up. That would serve little purpose.

The big question is whether he had extra bullets on him or had to go to his room to reload to then be able to kill Dawn. The cops never got into that part though they should have. In either case there was a short period where he could have cooled down but he didn't he killed her shortly thereafter.

So I believe Ron's confession is how it actually went down because:

1) He was unable to think of anything else to say at that point excpet the full truth including detailing where he dumped the rifle and evidence. If he was trying to be deceptive still he would not have given up the evidence.

2) If the kids all woke up and went to investigate and then he ordered them all to go back to their rooms then someone would have called police. I don't know if Allison had a phone but Dawn definitely did in her room. If they went back to their room upon hearing more shots they would have hid somewhere not just sat waiting their turn.

3) If the kids all woke up and went to investigate and then he ordered them to the boys room, ordered the boys to bed and then shot them Dawn and Allison would likely have run for their lives not to listen and march to Allison's room so she could be shot then take Dawn upstairs to shoot her. Indeed Dawn had a bed in Allison's room as well and he would have had her lay in it and shoot her there instead if that were the case, not take her back to her own room. In the meantime, Allison was shot with her face looking at the gun. She probably would have turned her head away from him if she had been awake and cognizant of what was going on. What happened was as she woke up she saw a gun barrel in her face and had no time to react.

While others see his account as unlikely I see it as the most likely. I don't find it likely he would have sent them to their own rooms on their own and then went room to room. Surely Dawn would have called police not gone to sleep (she was in a natural sleeping position not simply in bed). I don't see it likely that the kids could watch their siblings being shot and not attempt to run away but rather then follow suit and also get in bed knowing they were going to be shot next. That makes far less sense than them staying in their beds and not investigating at all.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:32 am

Some people have mentioned that everybody was home except Dawn, and after those that were home were killed, Ron played possum and waited for Dawn to get home and in bed. They suggested further that Dawn took a shower (hence why Ronnie told police "she had that focking thing on her head," meaning the towel), and then he shot her once she went to sleep.

I believe this to be true, for the following reason: had Dawn been home in bed after the shots rang out, and after she went to ask if everything was okay, and Ronnie said to go back to bed...this should have been Dawn's first indication that something was not right. Why? Because she didn't hear her father yelling, cursing, and bitching. There was not a peep from Daddy, and I don't think Ronnie could have created all that noise without irritating his father, and Dawn would have known this to be the case.

So either Ronnie is lying about his version of Dawn being sleep, then up and asking the question, or she wasn't home during Ronnie's initial rampage.

Or Dawn was shot first, which got Dad out of bed, and Ron explained to him that the gun discharged by accident. As Dad was getting back into bed, Ronnie shot him. [Weirder scenarios have been written.]
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:33 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:Some people have mentioned that everybody was home except Dawn, and after those that were home were killed, Ron played possum and waited for Dawn to get home and in bed. They suggested further that Dawn took a shower (hence why Ronnie told police "she had that focking thing on her head," meaning the towel), and then he shot her once she went to sleep.

I believe this to be true, for the following reason: had Dawn been home in bed after the shots rang out, and after she went to ask if everything was okay, and Ronnie said to go back to bed...this should have been Dawn's first indication that something was not right. Why? Because she didn't hear her father yelling, cursing, and bitching. There was not a peep from Daddy, and I don't think Ronnie could have created all that noise without irritating his father, and Dawn would have known this to be the case.

So either Ronnie is lying about his version of Dawn being sleep, then up and asking the question, or she wasn't home during Ronnie's initial rampage.

Or Dawn was shot first, which got Dad out of bed, and Ron explained to him that the gun discharged by accident. As Dad was getting back into bed, Ronnie shot him. [Weirder scenarios have been written.]


What people claimed this?

Dawn's closest friends were interviewed and she was not out with any of them. Moveover, the car she used, her mother's station wagon was parked in between Ron's car and her father's car. That is a sure sign she didn't get home after they were dead or her car would have been in front of her father's and the last in the driveway.

I don't subscribe to your theory that because her father was not screaming she would have investigated further. You are trying to explain away something that makes perfect sense. The noise was enough to wake her, she found out it was a family member not a burglar and that was good enough she was tired and wanted to get back to bed.

People need to stop relying on the claims of Geraldine that Ron Sr was screaming 24/7. Most of the accounts about the family itself and friends are not from reliable sources. We don't have a video showing close relatives and friends being interviewed about these issues in depth. Taking anything from the pro-Ronnie camp is a waste of time.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Stacey_xoxo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:38 am

So he's blamed the mafia, Dawn, his mother and Alison so who is he going to blame this time? Obviously he knows what went on that night at least have the decency to come clean and let his family rest in peace without all the speculation of demons and what not.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:58 am

Stacey_xoxo wrote:So he's blamed the mafia, Dawn, his mother and Alison so who is he going to blame this time? Obviously he knows what went on that night at least have the decency to come clean and let his family rest in peace without all the speculation of demons and what not.


Much of his family has passed on. His family knows what happened anyway. The police recounted his confession at trial and he admitted himself at trial what happened.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Stacey_xoxo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:48 am

Ah right I realised some of the grandparents had passed as I've seen it written on here somewhere.

But you'd think he'd realise that whether dawn was a part of it or not he is still to blame because it hasn't been proved its just his word. He never seems to show remorse either by accepting the blame.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Geenahgee1974 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:24 pm

I don't feel sorry, for anyone who married Butch. He shouldn't even have the right to marry. He's on his fourth if I'm correct. Not only is he in denial but I believe he's embrarrased, for his crime of murdering his family. I believe he has given up hope of ever getting out. In my opinion Butch, should never be released from prison. He's right where he belongs. There is just one thing I have differences in believing 100%, that being murdering his two brothers Mark, John and his Sister Allison. Then again he doesn't remember, at this parole, hearing. Definitely, the right decision was rendered. Who knows what he won't remember on the outside in the years to follow 2015? I pray the murdered DeFeo, family is resting in peace. The sure deserve it.
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Re: 2007 parole hearing transcripts

Postby Evanguy Reincarnated » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:06 am

When is Ronnie's next parole hearing?
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