Link the Labrador wrote:I don't think Dawn would have taken a shower at 3AM. Not that I'm saying it's impossible, but Butch would have heard the shower running and went in to investigate.
Why would he run up to investigate? Maybe this is something Dawn has done semi-regularly in the past while on her period? And if she started her shower before the murders, maybe this is what woke Ronnie up (he said he fell asleep in front of the TV, woke up later and then killed everyone).
But what I was looking for with the shower theory was a way for Dawn to be unaffected by/during the murders -- a situation where she wasn't freaked out -- allowing her to go back to bed and go back to sleep.
But I think Toonces is right -- even if in the shower, the rifle blasts would probably be too loud for her to not freak out. I was thinking they might be muffled enough so that Ronnie could explain the noise away as him dropping something down the stairs...
Link the Labrador wrote:The whole Butch picking Dawn up and putting her back in bed thing is plausible, considering it had been 12-24 hours since the murders. That's MORE than enough time to pick someone up, put them in bed and clean up anything not natural (blood on headrest) or were knocked down.
But Dawn's head was determined to be found in the same position as when she was shot -- due to the way the bullet holes lined up. So no, she was not moved after being shot.
Link the Labrador wrote:Struggles don't have to be DBZ epic with torn clothings. Remember, Butch was stronger than she was, he could easily overpower her (and he's got the gun, not her). What if all Butch did was clock her in the head with the gun and shoot her?
But even that's iffy, seeng as the "clean" up stage would have to call for Butch to be frickin' OCD about Dawn's body, going over everything that could be used against him. Hair fibers that don't belong, everything. At best, he may have just cleaned up the blood.
There ya go. That whole "mutual exhange" thing is not just torn clothes and bruising -- its hair fibers from one person found on the other, the other person's skin found under the fingernails, etc.
Brendan72 wrote:The Ireland's supposedly heard the gunshots, according to Ric Osuna. How the Ireland's conveniently mention it 25 years after the fact.
Well one theory that kinda make sense to me is that the neighbors heard the gunshots but didn't want to be involved because of the supposed ties the DeFeos had to organized crime. If they spoke up or phoned the police, they might find themselves testifying against the mob, and that's not the healthiest thing in the world.
t00nCiNaToR wrote:I personally like this one especially if they landed facedown, even a 10 year old could easily place her from this postion to the way she was found... She's practically there already...


But that's not my argument. I never said it was impossible for Ronnie to lift or move Dawn's body prior to her death -- I was just asking why he would do so. If Dawn was knocked unconcious before being killed, there is no reason for Ronnie to reposition her body and tuck her into bed before pulling the trigger.
t00nCiNaToR wrote:The only thing that hasn't changed in Butchie's story since November 14th 1974 is how he killed Dawn... very important info.
t00nCiNaToR wrote:OK M. can get real technical but what I'm saying is that Butchie always describes killing Dawn the same way, fight over the rifle, hit, then shot... always the same.
But that's wrong. Ronnie has been anything BUT consistent with the story of Dawn's death. The whole story of Dawn and Ronnie struggling over the gun didn't come about until 1992 -- almost 20 years after the murders took place!!!