Witness to strange events on night of murders

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Rokiisun » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:01 am

She didn't hand him the rifle in the hopes that he wouldn't kill her.

Yes, in one of Ronnie's many different accounts of what happened that night - the story goes that she appeared to him dressed in black and handed him the rifle to do what he wanted to do with his parents - but afterwards he does nothing else and goes out on a drive to get his head around the situation. When he returns all the lights are on and Dawn is sitting in her room listening to music, he discovers the kids and confronts her about it.

However, she grabs the rifle and he has to wrestle her in order to make sure that she does not do the same to him that she did to the kids. He gets her down on the bed and shoots her out of 'self defense'. So, yes, she handed him the rifle trusting that she knew fine well what he was going to do to the parents - but she did not hand him the rifle after his drive knowing fine well what he would do to her because of what she had done to the kids.

But we all know how much Ronnie likes to lie, brag and rant a lot :roll:
It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.
User avatar
Rokiisun
I am the year 1989
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:55 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:18 pm

Dawn is looking down from heaven, shaking her head, saying, "how in HELL did I get roped in on doing the murders?!" Then Jesus assured her that only the crazed lunatics believe it, but not the sane folks on the Truth Board. Then Dawn felt a little better.

I think it's tragic that a murder victim has had her name thrown in the mud like this, from people like Moran and Osuna! With absolutely no proof whatsoever! I can see people pointing a finger at Robert Kelske, because he was Ronnie's best friend, but Dawn? How in hell did that happen? Just because they found residue from the rifle on her nightgown? Which arguably is explained due to the rifle killing her being so close to her. So they turn it around and say it was because she was doing the shooting. Did they ever do a test on her hands? They tested Ronnie's hands, but found nothing because he had washed them four hundred times. But Dawn's hands weren't washed - why not do a test on her hands to clear her good name? They never did do that, and that is a shame.
User avatar
Jacobmarley1
Amityville Addict
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:41 pm
Location: Putnum County/Westchester County, New York

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Rokiisun » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:12 am

Well said Jacob. I have never believed (and never will believe) that Dawn had anything to do with the murders. I have always felt that the residue on her night gown was simply there because she was shot at a very close range. The residue could have been present on any of the Defeo victims, it was just unfortunate that Dawn was the only one who was found to have this on her night gown.

I wonder, what if it were Allison, Marc or John who had the particles on them, would that indicate that they fired a weapon, or because they are younger than Dawn the explaination for the particles on them would have simply been the same: 'As a result of being shot at close range.' So why not the same for Dawn? Was it simply so that Ronnie wouldn't be known as a child killer in jail? Because if so, then that is a terrible excuse. Ronnie has been in jail for the majority of his life for these crimes, he is never going to get out and I think he should stop blaming Dawn for something she did not do.

I have also noticed that in some documentaries he has called 'Dawn' - Ally, or Al - which is short for Allison. Surely he hasn't forgotten their names?
It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.
User avatar
Rokiisun
I am the year 1989
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:55 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby TrainDispatcher » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:35 pm

Jacobmarley1 wrote:Dawn is looking down from heaven, shaking her head, saying, "how in HELL did I get roped in on doing the murders?!" Then Jesus assured her that only the crazed lunatics believe it, but not the sane folks on the Truth Board. Then Dawn felt a little better.

I think it's tragic that a murder victim has had her name thrown in the mud like this, from people like Moran and Osuna! With absolutely no proof whatsoever! I can see people pointing a finger at Robert Kelske, because he was Ronnie's best friend, but Dawn? How in hell did that happen? Just because they found residue from the rifle on her nightgown? Which arguably is explained due to the rifle killing her being so close to her. So they turn it around and say it was because she was doing the shooting. Did they ever do a test on her hands? They tested Ronnie's hands, but found nothing because he had washed them four hundred times. But Dawn's hands weren't washed - why not do a test on her hands to clear her good name? They never did do that, and that is a shame.

:clap: :clap:

It's bad enough that Dawn had to be murdered in such a violent way (along with the other DeFeos) while she slept, and it's bad enough there's people today that have no problem dragging her name though the mud since she can't defend herself.

I know a board member (can't remember who, wish I did to give them the credit) had mentioned how child killers are not treated well among other prisoners and how Ronnie used this as a weak attempt to shift blame of Marc's, John's, and Allison's murders to Dawn-- but if Ronnie has taught us anything, it's that we can't believe a word he says, even though there are those who do.
User avatar
TrainDispatcher
Crazy 'bout a Mercury
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:33 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Cole00 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:45 pm

Ric Moran claims it was a dea agent
Cole00
Amityville Member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:58 pm
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Dan the Damned » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:30 pm

And that claim is bullsh*t. Here is my answer to Rick Moran's claim: Rick Moran - Beating a Dead Source
User avatar
Dan the Damned
Lost Soul
 
Posts: 11757
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:22 pm

VampireKen wrote:I've heard two things about the night of the murders that apparently someone noted as odd. The first is the house was all lit up that night. and someone saw Dawn walk out of the house in a hood and gloves with the rifle or something. does anyone know who this person was who saw these things?


First of all we have to distinguish between hearsay (someone claiming someone else told them something) and someone claiming to actually have witnessed (heard or seen) something coming forward and that person giving their account to authorities directly.

As was pointed out already, Consentino came forward early on to give her account of what she remembered seeing on her way home from work. She thought it unusual that the entire house was lit up at that hour of night. Could she have made such up because she wanted to somehow say she had a story to tell about it. Sure but given her lack of staying in the limelight it is unlikely. Could she have been wrong and only a lot of lights have been on not all of them? Sure but any such error wouldn’t really have any significance. Even only a bunch of lights on at that hour would indicate the had already been killed and he was cleaning up things. Why is this significant? If Ronnie had not confessed this evidence would be extremely important.

Ron originally tried to tell police the murders must have happened after he left for work. Yet at the same time he was leaving the door open to saying they were killed before he even got home the night before. He came up with details about not wanting to wake up the household so left with the wrong set of keys and didn’t go in their rooms to disturb them to look for his keys. After he admitted he was home when they were murdered Cosentino’s testimony wasn’t as important except to corroborate things. But if he had not confessed and continued to claim they must have been murdered after he left for work then her testimony would impeach his claims. All or most of the lights being on would be an indication the murders already happened by that time. He says he didn’t leave for work until after 4am. Leaving at 6am would be enough to avoid traffic so leaving at 4 makes no sense anyway. At any rate, his own claim that he was home when all the lights were on before the time he claimed to have left for work would impeach his claims that they must have been murdered after he left.

Why would he turn on all the lights? To clean up of course, how would he find all the casings in the dark?

The other account you are referring to was not from a witness we have only hearsay. Long story short Rick Moran claims a DEA agent told him that he was outside the house looking for evidence of drug dealing and while there heard the gunshots and saw the muzzle flashes. Then he saw Dawn leave the house in an overcoat that belonged to someone else and left with a rifle but came back shortly thereafter without a rifle.

Rick Moran has never identified this supposed DEA agent. In fact he contradicted himself tremendously. In some accounts he claimed the witness was a close friend of his who worked for the DEA. In other accounts though he claimed it was a person who came forward claiming to be a DEA agent.

Frankly I think Moran made the claim of a witness coming forward up entirely. At any rate, even if someone did come forward claiming to be a DEA agent Moran clearly never confirmed the person actually worked for the DEA at the time claimed and it was just someone making an unsubstantiated claim. Even if someone who we could verify worked for the DEA at the time of the murders came forward with this tale so we could test his credentials out, I still would not believe it because it is ridiculous.

First of all the DEA doesn’t stake out a house of someone who they believe is importing drugs to try to catch evidence of drug dealing. They stake out where drugs are being dealt from. Thus if there is a report of drugs being dealt from a location they observe such locaiton to try to see if they observe indicia of drug dealing. there wa sno claim of drugs being dealt from the DeFeo home.

Moreover, the supposed claims that there was always a car outside and an open investigation at the time has never been shown to be true ANYWHERE. There is a claim that police knew the DEA had a car out there watching. If that were the case then Sullivan would have received notice and tried to have interviewed the DEA about such. The whole thing is clearly fabricated either by Moran himself or by a person who told this crap to Moran.

Is it credible that a DEA agent would do nothing if he heard gunshots and saw someone going room to room killing the occupants? That is absurd, he would have called authorities if not have checked it out himself. Well they didn’t want to tip their hand about the investigation… If the people they were investigating were being murdered what exactly would they need to protect by not investigating the murders? They could have caught accomplices or enemies and thus caught other drug dealers. AT MININMU they would have phoned the police that surely would not compromise their investigation.

The part about Dawn disposing of the weapon and then returning is likewise ridiculous. She was murdered with it so how could she have been the one who disposed of it? To show how ridiculous Moran is he claims that Ron would never have carried a loaded weapon around he would have emptied it before putting it in his car and disposing of it in the water. He says that proves it was Dawn not Ron who got rid of it. The notion Ron was this very careful handler of weapons is absurd. How could she have disposed of the weapon that was used to murder her though? For Moran ot make such a claim it means he is an idiot. There is no other way to say it.

Moran has shown himself to no be that knowledgeable about the case. He messed up a number of things such as misrepresented details of Ron’s confession. I need not discuss all of them here it just goes to further show he is not even close to an expert on the case. He important thing he messed up though was claiming that in his confession he said Dawn was in a black cloak and wore black gloves and tried to hand him the rifle but he wouldn’t take it. In fact, he said it was as IF the rifle were handed to him by someone with black gloves. He didn’t say it was definitely Dawn and he took the rifle he didn’t refuse it.

Something to note is that this tale of his took many different progressions. It started out with him saying he took 2 psychics there and this account is what the psychics told him. Later it morphed into the DEA tale.

Conveniently Michael Shaner is dead. He was a Suffolk County cop and Moran claims he was a friend of his. He claims Shaner told him various things he witnessed such as this car being parked outside the house with a US Health Department sticker on it. From there he extrapolated to it being a DEA car. For all we know one of the neighbors worked for the US Department of Health. But then again I could be a tale Michael Shaner made up to try to make it seem like he knew something secret. But another alternative is that Moran made it up knowing Shaner was dead and could not refute his claims. He also claims Shaner told him he witnessed the Lutzes meet DeFeo. I find it hard to believe he would see this meeting and even more difficult to believe tha tevne if he had witnessed such a meeting he would remember it. Anytime Moran needs a source for some explosive claim he falls back on his dead supposed friend. I believe Moran is making it all up as he goes along.

There is in fact no police records about a drug investigation so it seems his claims such records exist are bull.

In sum, even if alleged witnesses did come forward to Moran their claims are ridiculous and they were clearly lying. But more likely Moran made up all this crap himself.
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Re:

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:53 pm

Link the Labrador wrote:I wonder...did Butch even HAVE an alibi? Right from the get-go, he screwed himself up. This should go down as one of the most pathetic attempts at getting away with crime.

I wonder if Rick ever considered the abusrdity of Dawn throwing the rifle in the water, then the same thing being retrieved to kill her? Did Butch follow her or something?

This is what I don't buy about the Dawn is the killer thing= It seems like the only reason she would have wanted to do it was because she was jealous of Allison's beauty, which is kinda lame if you ask me. I mean, sure she may have had some kind of rivalry with Allison, but that's pretty typical among siblings.

Oi. Everything's just screwed up. >_<



That is why most people overlook. The alleged alibi he concoted in The Night The DeFeo's died MAKES NO SENSE.

What he tried to come up with in real life didn't make to much sense either but at least was somewhat plausible if he thought it through enough but he didn't and messed it up.

His strongest claim was to say they were murdered after he left for work and was out of the house. Leaving so early though for his job made no sense leaving 6am would be more credible as that was more likely the time he left. Normally he drove to work with his father. This particular day he had to go alone because his father was staying home from work. His father's car was slated for some kind of repair and he thus was supposed to take his father's car. This actually presented him with opportunity. He had a reaosn to be going to work alone. He screwed it up by not taking his father's car like he was supposed to. Since he killed his father he wasn't worried about getting the car fixed and took his own. This shows how stupid he is that he had a ready made excuse and then botched it.

His goal was to get out of the house and dispose of the evidence before anyone could see anything so he left ealrier than he usually would which actually looks suspicious. So too would it look suspicious though to say he left at 6 and they were murdered in bed. At least some of them would have been getting up by 7 if not earlier so the window to murder them in bed would be quite small.

Ron didn't even think of the small window though. The police simply said they were killed while still in bed and would have gotten up shortly after he left so it was unliekly someone shot them after he left and must have done it before he left. Ron cracked and admitted he was home at the time.


The best he could hope to have said was to suggest someone saw him leave and assumed the house was empty and hit it finding them and then killed everyone to keep them from talking. But that's weird too. If the parents wonken up while they wer ein the room so they killed them it would be odd to stick around searching every room to kill the rest. If they went to a room and saw the occupant sleeping they would say good and get out as fast as possible not stick around to go room to room killing everyone.

At any rate he didn't even try to say that he simply conceded he was there at he time of the murders and that pretty much seale dhis fate that they were getting the full confession out of him after a while. He played various games saying he hid dirung it and then suggesting it was a hitman who made him watch and later participate but conceding he was there is what really sealed his fate. He didn't have his story well rehearsed.

He devoted most of his planning to why he didn't discover the bodies until when he did.
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:08 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:And that claim is bullsh*t. Here is my answer to Rick Moran's claim: Rick Moran - Beating a Dead Source


I didn't know he claimed Dawn was shot with a different weapon than the rifle.

On one hand that makes his claim not as stupid but on the other even more dishonest because he had no basis at all to make such a claim and clearly made it up.

In his acocunts a common theme is to botch details showing he doesn't have a good command of the facts.

Something you didn't mention in questioning the DEA account is the DEA agents seing DeFeo leave the next mmorning. It wasn't the next morning it was the same morning as the murders they supposedly witnessed.

What I find especially significant is that In 1 interview he insted a close friend of his was a DEA agent and witnessed the murders. Yet whne this man's name is demanded so he coudl be interviewed then he changes things and his friend simply either confrimed the DEA often marks cars US Department of Health or confirms they suspected the DeFeos of drug running. It becomes some person whose credentials he never verified who claims to have actually been sitting outside who witnessed the murders.

This changing story is what makes me believe such person never came forward and he made it up. Again I woudl not beleiv eit even if someone did come forward to him because it is riduclous and he never verified the credentials of this person but I don't even believe someone did come forward.
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

I was trying to find some of his interviews and conventiently Max has some posted here!


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... moran6.swf

It starts off with him totally messing up the confession. He didn't say he refused the rifle form the black demon, he said it was as if the rifle were handed to him by a figure with black hands and he then shot the family.

In this particular audio he says has close friend put him in touch with another DEA agent who was stationed outside and tha the would put them in contact with one another.

I could swear in another he claimed his close friend was the witness maybe I misremembered though.

In this article again care of Max


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... /ft301.jpg

He wrote that someone called him purporting to be a Dea agent. He doesn't vouch for the person actually being one and notacably absent is the claim that his friend told him he knew someone outside the house on the night of the murders. Instead he only learned of the claim of someone being out there in this phone call.

See the change. First it is his friend knwos someone who sat outside and now it was someone called him and this person made the claim all alone the friend wasn't trying to vouch for it.

This article continues with ridiculous claims about drugs being smuggled through the DeFeo house.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... /ft301.jpg

and better yet the house was under survelllance because the DeFeo kids made up o a tale about the drugs being imported through the house this way. The DEA is going to sit on a house for months because of kid talk? ABSURD!

In this acocunt he repeats his claim that the guy saw butch leave the next morning. It was the same morning duh!

Pathetic is all that comes to mind.
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Matt9290 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:31 pm

fascinating stuff - gave me a good nights reading :clap:
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...
User avatar
Matt9290
Oh My Goodness
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:04 am
Location: Newcastle UK

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:47 pm

sorry I posted the same link twice here is the correct second page

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... /ft302.jpg
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby sherbetbizarre » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:15 pm

Here's my original response to that article, which appeared in The Fortean Times back in 2004:

Rick Moran wrote:PAGE 34-35: The DEA operative "parked on a side street facing the house, and witnessed "muffled roar and muzzle flash (...) as the killer walked from room to room (...) slightly after this Dawn DeFeo left the house (...) returned a few minutes later without the rifle (...) saw Butch leave the house the next morning. Twenty-four hours later another man came to the house and, within minutes, the area was swarming with police."


Not only is this story implausible, the statements within are impossible:

The call from the house that reported the murders is logged by the Suffolk County PD at 6:35pm on November 13th. FIFTEEN hours after the murders.

The call was made by a friend of DeFeo who had turned up with DeFeo and THREE other men (they drove there after Ronnie ran into Henry?s Bar, claiming he?d found his parents dead.)

There was no "lone man 24-hours later." The police arrived on the afternoon of 13th November, as stated in the DeFeo trial and by Joel Martin (yes, he was the first reporter on the scene) Not to mention the newspapers the following morning. The very morning which Moran?s informant claims he saw the police arrive!

And while they conducted door-to-door inquires, nobody stopped to ask what this guy was doing parked outside a murder scene for "24-hours" plus?

And why was he there anyway when Moran says the case against DeFeo Snr. had been "dropped entirely"?

The full response is at:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=524&p=6579#p6579
User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
 
Posts: 9619
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 10:13 am

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby scipio-USMC » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:16 pm

Ok I want to break down the claims in the article related to drug trafficking and all the DEA claims and how the article says he learned of things.

First the DEA claims

The article claims:

1) The kids were babbling about this drug trafficking scheme where the DeFeo boat would pick up drugs from a vessel, take the drugs back to their home and that transport the drugs to a locaiton outside of Amityville.

2) That because of the kids babbling the DEA sat a car to watch the house

The DEA would have a car sit there day after day because of kid talk? Absurd!

Worse yet, what benefit would there be to having a car sit there even if the DEA did suspect such? A car on the street would nto be able to see them unloading drugs from their boat let alone to determine they unlocaded the drugs from the boat to their car. They at best could see them put something unknown in their car trunk and drive away. Having acar sit there all day long day after day serves no purpose and makes no sense. AT BEST the DEA woudl put acar there to tail the father when he leaves the house. If the father was supsected of transporting drugs they would tail him to try to see where he could be transporting the drugs to. Having them not follow anyone and just sit there serves no purpose at all. The story does not pass the smell test.

If the DEA did suspect such their goal would be to bust the DeFeos and the people the DeFeos were supplying the drugs to. Wiht the Defeos murdered they no longer have the DeFeos to go after. Nor do they have the DeFeos to folloow anymore to try to find the peopel the DeFeo's were supplying. So the story about needing to not blow their covered as the murders were going on and after the murders makes no sense at all.

The murders would provide the DEA wiht a reason to go into the house without a warrant, they would have been rushing to get in there. Moreover, it was at leas tpossible if not likely th emurderers would be tied to the people they were supplying so they would want to see if they coudl catch the killers and find a way to tie them to the suspected operations. At minimum they would want to work jointly with the SCPD Homicide on the matter to see if it was tied to drugs. They would have called the police if they heard gunshots and saw th emuzzle flashes not have sat back doing nothing at all. Did that occur? Nope no contact with SCPD to report the murders nor with Homicide during the murder investigation. They spent all those resources sitting there day after day then never bothered to look at the SCPD investigation at all- yeah that makes sense...

Now let's look at his account about how he learned of these DEA claims.

1) Former SCPD cop allegedly told him that a car with a US Department of Health sticker was parked on the block constantly.

2) He spoke with someone at the DEA and he told him the DEA routinely uses that as a cover.

3) He then contacted the DEA in Brooklyn to ask about whether the DeFeo's were being investigated by the DEA in 1974.

4) The DEA breaks protocol searches records for him and confirms they were being investigated and someone had been stationed outside their home.

5) Subsequently someone calls him claiming to be a DEA agent who was outside the house on the night of the murders.

In this account his great detective work enabels him to figure out the US Departen of Health Car was in fact DEA the SCPD cop didn't tell him so.

How did he know to contact the DEA about a US DOH car? Moreover, why would the DEA use a car with an offiical government sticker on it if they were trying to be inconspicuous? The ide ais to use a vehicle with no US governemnt connection at all so as to not be conspicuous.

Why would the DEA break protocol and investigate about the DeFeos and give him an answer plus locate an old agent who was actually outside the house ad have him call? It makes no sense.

Still this account differs with others where he said the retired cop knew it was the DEa and is the one who told him it was the DEA and told him that the drug suspcisions were in the homicde file though there is no such thing in the file.

Moran can't keep his stories straight anymore than he can get the details of Ron's confession right.
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby sherbetbizarre » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:53 pm

Here's part of my post-Fortean Times e-mail exchange with Moran:

Rick Moran wrote:Lets take the case from the literal evidence. Dawn had powder burns on her shoulder, that is consistent with a person who fired a rifle. Everyone in the house, except dawn, was murdered with a rifle. The DEA informant said what he said and is consistent with the evidence later found. (The DEA at the time was a very "cowboy" outfit and people did what they pleased, more or less. They were know to be uncooperative with other police agencies, so the lack of communications on the time line is easy to explain) There was a
memo that said something to the effect that, " the Administration has reason to believe...." and outlined the movements of Dawn that night. But by the time the memo got to the Suffolk PD, Butch was already admitting to the crimes (thanks to Grandpa) and the memo was going to upset the apple cart for everyone and was misplaced. That memo was put back in the file by Mike Shaner, who argued that the evidence was telling another story that was consistent with the DEA account. Nevertheless, that memo was pulled once again as "not substantial" to the case file.


Rick Moran wrote:re: DEA Again, I don't have the final version in print yet here, if there is a discrepancy in time about his story, it might be our mistake. He witnessed Dawn in the hooded snorkle coat with what appeared to be a rifle, driving towards the bay, etc. The exact time the next day that the PD first arrived could be my error or a mistake in the way I presented that. To the question about releasing DEA material, I could not have done so legally, and those facts came into my hands after the Anson book. To answer the question you didn't ask, the DEA did not have to release anything to the Suffolk County PD, but they did. SCPD was under Federal investigation. As a reporter, even if I had that information, I wuld not have released it. In this country, everything a reporter knows is protected by the Constitution.

I could have been indicted for releasing that information. Plus the statute of limitations in New York is 7 years. The older the case, the more likely that informants will tell the true story.


Rick Moran wrote:I personally knew Mike Shaner from the age of 16 through the Boy Scouts of America. He was first an Amityville cop, then went to Suffolk County, wher he was at one point an investigator. He saw corruption, refused to play the game and was sent to the Communications Division as a supervisor of 9-1-1
dispatchers. Because the murders were in Amityville, he had full access and information, and in his capacity in Suffolk, he knew what was happening on that side. He was only passing along information to me, a friend, partially because he was tired of the corruption, which one could say, included the railroading of Butch for all the murders when any investigator, even a blind one, could see the evidence and know it didn't happen the way the case was prosecuted.

The evidence is gone because Shaner died and no one at Suffolk PD wanted it in the file. That does not mean it didn't happen!


Rick Moran wrote:I'm getting a little old, but when someone tells you they saw something, it
is impolite to suggest they don't remember it correctly. The revelation
here is that a DEA informant was there at all. They guy who saw Dawn could
not be the same one who was on duty when the Police arrived, they don't work
that way, they work 8 hour tours, just like a cop. As for Shaner, he was,
by then working for Suffolk County, not Amityville.


Rick Moran wrote:From first hand experience, the DEA in those days were very independent and were responsible for weekly reports to their immediate supervisors. It would not be the first time that a DEA guy watched a major crime go down and report what he saw routinely, much later on and only to his immediate superior, who may or may not pass it along.

There was a shooting in Brooklyn once, where Jimmy Breslin (a fairly well know writer from the NY Daily News asked for a photographer and company car to drive him somewhere) The photographer, who was a friend of mine, gave me a call before leaving that she was driving Breslin to Brooklyn. Being the competiton at the time, I put two cars of our own in motion and monitored the Daily News radio traffic. Breslin came to rest next to a park in a
predominently Italian American section of the county and the driver called in to report they were stand still at that location. Our drivers moved into the same area. Twenty minutes went by and suddenly the police precinct radio dispatcher came across with a "shots fired" call about two blocks from Breslin's location. Breslin immediately had the driver go to the location, beating the PD by about five minutes and us by two. In the back yard was a mob boss, his cigar still hanging from his mouth, shot to death by a hitman.

Breslin's photographer rushed to the roof of the building and took a shot of the dead boby from above, as did one of my photographers. Both the New York Daily News and the N.Y. Post ran the identical photos, both taken before the cops arrived. So, how did Breslin know to be there? The mob boss who was killed was scheduled to meet with another bad guy at this location (a restaurant) and the DEA had tapes of both his conversation making the meet and of another bad guy setting up the hit on the first.

Those conversations came up in court years later as part of another case. The DEA never told anyone before that case. So they do have a history of not sharing like good little law enforcment people... and DeFeo was not a crime boss, so not of the food chain so to speak. This wasn't a mob hit or part of any case, so it was unlikely that they would dirty their hands with it. Too much time would be necessary if they got involved, it is a small organization.


Rick Moran wrote:The DEA stuff found its way up the ladder after I learned about it, with Shaner a party to the introduction of that story to the Amityville PD. That information was later put in the Suffolk file, but when Shaner looked for it, the file on the DEA interest was no longer there. He advised those
responsible and the information was put back in the file... I doubt highly that it stayed there for long after Shaner left communications to go back out on the street. Somebody didn't want it in there, it clouded an otherwise openandshut case.
User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
 
Posts: 9619
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 10:13 am

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby Brendan72 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:51 am

Rick Moran wrote:In the back yard was a mob boss, his cigar still hanging from his mouth, shot to death by a hitman.


He may have been referring to Carmine Galante, former boss of the Bonanno crime family, who on July 12th, 1979 was gunned down, according to Wikipedia, while dining at 'Joe and Mary's Italian-American Restaurant at 205 Knickerbocker Avenue in Bushwick, Brooklyn'. The entry said 'Galante's death picture showed a cigar still in his mouth'.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)
User avatar
Brendan72
Forest Giant
 
Posts: 2963
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:56 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Witness to strange events on night of murders

Postby scipio-USMC » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:43 am

Rick Moran wrote:Lets take the case from the literal evidence. Dawn had powder burns on her shoulder, that is consistent with a person who fired a rifle. Everyone in the house, except dawn, was murdered with a rifle. The DEA informant said what he said and is consistent with the evidence later found. (The DEA at the time was a very "cowboy" outfit and people did what they pleased, more or less. They were know to be uncooperative with other police agencies, so the lack of communications on the time line is easy to explain) There was a
memo that said something to the effect that, " the Administration has reason to believe...." and outlined the movements of Dawn that night. But by the time the memo got to the Suffolk PD, Butch was already admitting to the crimes (thanks to Grandpa) and the memo was going to upset the apple cart for everyone and was misplaced. That memo was put back in the file by Mike Shaner, who argued that the evidence was telling another story that was consistent with the DEA account. Nevertheless, that memo was pulled once again as "not substantial" to the case file.



Shaner was not with homicide and would have no ability to control what is in the file or even to have access to know what was in the file. How could he know something was removed from the file? Better yet how would he get a copy of what was removed and be able to put it back? This claim is ridiculous.

As for the gunpowder burns as has been discussed many times here gunpower burns ar ein inicaiton of being near the muzzle of a wepaon that is fired (a weapon pointed at you) not firing a weapon.

Dawn was murdered with the rifle the claim she wasn't is flat out wrong and show how he is not aware of even the most basic of facts.

Rick Moran wrote:re: DEA Again, I don't have the final version in print yet here, if there is a discrepancy in time about his story, it might be our mistake. He witnessed Dawn in the hooded snorkle coat with what appeared to be a rifle, driving towards the bay, etc. The exact time the next day that the PD first arrived could be my error or a mistake in the way I presented that. To the question about releasing DEA material, I could not have done so legally, and those facts came into my hands after the Anson book. To answer the question you didn't ask, the DEA did not have to release anything to the Suffolk County PD, but they did. SCPD was under Federal investigation. As a reporter, even if I had that information, I wuld not have released it. In this country, everything a reporter knows is protected by the Constitution.

I could have been indicted for releasing that information. Plus the statute of limitations in New York is 7 years. The older the case, the more likely that informants will tell the true story.


He could have been indicted for what for releasing the alleged DEA tale? What a tool.



Rick Moran wrote:I personally knew Mike Shaner from the age of 16 through the Boy Scouts of America. He was first an Amityville cop, then went to Suffolk County, wher he was at one point an investigator. He saw corruption, refused to play the game and was sent to the Communications Division as a supervisor of 9-1-1
dispatchers. Because the murders were in Amityville, he had full access and information, and in his capacity in Suffolk, he knew what was happening on that side. He was only passing along information to me, a friend, partially because he was tired of the corruption, which one could say, included the railroading of Butch for all the murders when any investigator, even a blind one, could see the evidence and know it didn't happen the way the case was prosecuted.

The evidence is gone because Shaner died and no one at Suffolk PD wanted it in the file. That does not mean it didn't happen!


He wouldn't have access to the file let alone to be able to determine something was removed and to be able to get back what was removed and reinsert it. He makes Shaner sound like adisgruntled nut who makes up BS and was telling the kids fairytales. Whether Shaner made this crap up or he did though remains to be seen. I don't know Shaner but from what I know about Moran he is not trustworthy and I will not assume Shaner made this crap up but rather tha the did until I see evidence to support that Shaner made it up.

Rick Moran wrote:I'm getting a little old, but when someone tells you they saw something, it
is impolite to suggest they don't remember it correctly. The revelation
here is that a DEA informant was there at all. They guy who saw Dawn could
not be the same one who was on duty when the Police arrived, they don't work
that way, they work 8 hour tours, just like a cop. As for Shaner, he was,
by then working for Suffolk County, not Amityville.


He has not presented any evidence that the DEA was stationed there let alone that there was a witness to the murders occurring sitting out there.


Rick Moran wrote:From first hand experience, the DEA in those days were very independent and were responsible for weekly reports to their immediate supervisors. It would not be the first time that a DEA guy watched a major crime go down and report what he saw routinely, much later on and only to his immediate superior, who may or may not pass it along.

There was a shooting in Brooklyn once, where Jimmy Breslin (a fairly well know writer from the NY Daily News asked for a photographer and company car to drive him somewhere) The photographer, who was a friend of mine, gave me a call before leaving that she was driving Breslin to Brooklyn. Being the competiton at the time, I put two cars of our own in motion and monitored the Daily News radio traffic. Breslin came to rest next to a park in a
predominently Italian American section of the county and the driver called in to report they were stand still at that location. Our drivers moved into the same area. Twenty minutes went by and suddenly the police precinct radio dispatcher came across with a "shots fired" call about two blocks from Breslin's location. Breslin immediately had the driver go to the location, beating the PD by about five minutes and us by two. In the back yard was a mob boss, his cigar still hanging from his mouth, shot to death by a hitman.

Breslin's photographer rushed to the roof of the building and took a shot of the dead boby from above, as did one of my photographers. Both the New York Daily News and the N.Y. Post ran the identical photos, both taken before the cops arrived. So, how did Breslin know to be there? The mob boss who was killed was scheduled to meet with another bad guy at this location (a restaurant) and the DEA had tapes of both his conversation making the meet and of another bad guy setting up the hit on the first.

Those conversations came up in court years later as part of another case. The DEA never told anyone before that case. So they do have a history of not sharing like good little law enforcment people... and DeFeo was not a crime boss, so not of the food chain so to speak. This wasn't a mob hit or part of any case, so it was unlikely that they would dirty their hands with it. Too much time would be necessary if they got involved, it is a small organization.


Rick Moran wrote:The DEA stuff found its way up the ladder after I learned about it, with Shaner a party to the introduction of that story to the Amityville PD. That information was later put in the Suffolk file, but when Shaner looked for it, the file on the DEA interest was no longer there. He advised those
responsible and the information was put back in the file... I doubt highly that it stayed there for long after Shaner left communications to go back out on the street. Somebody didn't want it in there, it clouded an otherwise openandshut case.
[/quote]


The DEA not sharing recordings from bugs is far different from DEA agents witnessing a crime and doing nothing at all as the crime unfolds. It is ridiculous. Moran is full of more crap than a constipated horse.
scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Previous

Return to DeFeo Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group