Ric Osuna's Seventh Body photo

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
User avatar
iknowthetruth
Amityville Member
Posts: 28

Post by iknowthetruth » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:08 pm

alison had thicker eye brows so its not her

User avatar
tedbot
not the face!
Posts: 846
Location: Who wants to know?
Contact:

Post by tedbot » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:19 pm

tedbot, the negatives do in fact exist, no doubt about it. SCPD has posession yet they refuse any comment....Go figure.
Okay, I wanna go over this again, cause I've never heard about the negatives. I personally think that if this is true, then it's somewhat earth shattering.
So, we are to believe that there is a roll of negatives out there somewhere, and in the midst of this roll, there is one picture of an unknown body, thrown right in the middle of all the other pictures taken at 112 Ocean Avenue on the night of the murders.
Now, if this is true, then that pic must have been taken in the house. There is no way that the camera would be taken out of the house in the midst of taking forensic evidence, driven to another crime scene, one picture of another murder taken, then driven back to Ocean Ave for more pics. Not likely. So, are we saying here that this picture was taken within the house on the night of the murders? If it exists, then that is definately what's being said. So, now, we have one picture taken of this body? Only one? These pictures are taken by police as both evidence and as an investigation tool. Even the most inept of police would not look in a room, see another body, take one picture of it from the foot of a bed, and then move on to the rest of the house. Hell, I've seen more pics of the kitchen taken that night than of this supposed dead body in the house. So the other theory is that one of the bodies of the defeo family was taken out of their bed, clothes changed, and then a single picture taken in another bed? I'm sorry, but it sounds a little too ludicrous to me. Why? For what reason? Also, I'm not big on the Defeo murders, I haven't read any of the books or really followed that aspect of the story, but I have heard that the background of the picture of the seventh body does not match any room in the house on Ocean Ave. Is this true?
Now, has anyone else ever looked into whether or not there was another murder somewhere on Long Island that night of shortly thereafter that would explain this other picture? I think, personally, that it sounds like alot of bunk. I would only believe that when I saw it. Where did this story of the negatives come from? Who brought this to light and where is there proof?
Are you looking at me?

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:33 pm

I've never heard about the negatives
And I would answer that with this:
I'm not big on the Defeo murders, I haven't read any of the books or really followed that aspect of the story
Exactly, so in the future try not to be such an authority on the matter :)
I have heard that the background of the picture of the seventh body does not match any room in the house on Ocean Ave. Is this true?
Yes, that is true. To clear up any possible confusion, I was in no way claiming that I believed the '7th body theory'. Tedbot, if you are that interested, either make the call or pay a visit to the SCPD.
Now, has anyone else ever looked into whether or not there was another murder somewhere on Long Island that night of shortly thereafter that would explain this other picture?
Precisely what are you asking when you say " anyone else" ? Else as in...? Whom? Again, yes there have been many of us that have delved quite extensively into this. . To my knowledge, the answer is no. No other murders in the area during that time frame.

****EDIT**** As a friend & I were just discussing, SCPD does in fact have the negs. The question is, are they actually in the middle of the strip...
Last edited by zzvampy on Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1932

Post by msmart112 » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:55 pm

Hi Ted,

Ric Osuna claimed in his book that when he went to the Suffolk County Police Department in 2001 to view the crime scene negatives, he noticed the ?bloody shoes? photo, as well as the ?seventh body? photo.

He stated that he saw three different instances of the ?seventh body? photo on two different negative strips?twice on 17B1, and once on 20B2.

While Osuna has provided a receipt for the reprints he ordered that particular day, that receipt does not specify which prints he purchased.

If there are indeed three instances of that photo mixed-in with the rest of the DeFeo crime scene pictures, I think it?s entirely possible that it could be due to?

A simple departmental error

The image was used for comparative analysis, and remained with the rest of the images

At some point since 1974, the images were re-indexed, resulting in those three images being inadvertently mixed-in

If there?s any truth to Osuna?s claim that there were three identical images in three different locations on two different strips?that in itself suggests some type of re-indexing error. Otherwise, since it?s obvious that the photo in question was not taken at 112, Howard Sommers (the police photographer) would have needed to have left 112 on THREE different occasions!

What?s most surprising to me is that Ric Osuna was the person who ?discovered? these mystery photos. Here?s a response I received from the Suffolk County Police Department back in 2003 regarding Christopher Berry-Dee displaying some of the autopsy photos on his website?

YOUR INQUIRY REGARDING THE PHOTOGRAPHS YOU VIEWED WAS FORWARDED TO ME FOR REVIEW. OUR RECORDS INDICATE THAT PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THIS INCIDENT (CC# 74-340868) WERE PROVIDED AND/OR SOLD TO, AMONG OTHERS, RIC OSUNA ON NOVEMBER 7, 2001, ROBERT TWILLEY FROM JUPITER ENTERTAINMENT ON OCTOBER 23, 2001 AS WELL AS AN ASSORTMENT OF ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND POLICE PERSONNEL OVER THE YEARS. THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE LEGALLY OBTAINABLE UNDER NEW YORK STATE'S FREEDOM OF INFORMATION LAW (F.O.I.L.) AND ONCE RELEASED, LITTLE IF ANYTHING CAN BE DONE TO CONTROL THE MANNER IN WHICH THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE USED.

?it just seems odd that out of all the people who ever viewed the photos over the years?Ric Osuna was the one who made the startling discovery!

So, to me, even if those three ?seventh body? images ARE within the rest of the DeFeo crime scene photos?it was probably a simple error (hence the reason no one else has ever made an issue out of it).

Take care,

Maxwell

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:00 pm

Thanks Maxwell :)

User avatar
TheVampireologist
**ACCOUNT ON HOLD**
Posts: 1007

Post by TheVampireologist » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:21 pm

Tedbot I dont think you fully understand my position on this thing yet.

No I dont believe in Osuna's theory or that it was a picture from inside of the house.As far as the negatives go there is a reciept from Suffolk county police inventory online confirming they indeed do exist.

Read this link here to see what im talking about -

http://www.amityvillehorror.com/phpBB/v ... php?t=1089
So, to me, even if those three ?seventh body? images ARE within the rest of the DeFeo crime scene photos?it was probably a simple error (hence the reason no one else has ever made an issue out of it).
A simple error here is flat out impossible simply because you cant "mix in" or alter a negative without it being obvious.Two different sections of film possibly two different cameras.There is no way to splice an image into a negative because each roll of film has a certain composition to it(similar to a fingerprint for example).If the images had been spliced in someway or forged, one glance under a microscope would reveal the altering of the composition of the film in these mentioned frames.

If in fact they are on two strips in the position stated by Osuna.They were taken around the same time by the same camera.Error is impossible here.
[img]http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/2986/22ns2.jpg[/img]

"He took a face from the ancient gallery...and walked on down the hall" - Lizard king

leathermonkey
Amityville Addict
Posts: 549
Location: North Carolina, USA
Contact:

Post by leathermonkey » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:52 pm

Mabye one of us should go down and view this roll of negatives for ourselves, and put an end to this. I dont believe Osuna just on his word at this point. Any takers? Next time somebody shoots down to the house, go ahead and go to the scpd and see how ya get treated when you ask about Defeo crimescene negatives.. LOL :P

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:00 pm

Scott, Osuna did a pretty good job of mucking up any rapport between the general public and the Defeo case. As did Geraldine " DeFeo". He is just as much ) if not more so ) to blame as she is simply due to the fact that he STILL to this day credits her accounts as being 'the way it went down'. Ugh.

User avatar
tedbot
not the face!
Posts: 846
Location: Who wants to know?
Contact:

Post by tedbot » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:18 pm

Exactly, so in the future try not to be such an authority on the matter
Okay, so I hope you're not serious there, cause my not being an authority on the matter is exactly the reasons I'm asking the questions I'm asking and wondering where this proof comes from. If it's coming out of Osuna's book, or where there is real proof of these negatives, where the pics of the 7th body are within these negatives, and exactly how they relate to the night of the murders. I explicitly made the statements about me NOT knowing about the Defeo murders to show that I am not an authority. If you're not kidding, I'm wondering why you said that?
Precisely what are you asking when you say " anyone else" ? Else as in...? Whom?
Not quite sure what you mean there, either. Anyone else as in anyone else. As in anyone. As in anybody. Posing another question because I don't know the answers. Being curious and wondering if this has been examined.

Also thanks to msmart112 for your answers. Alot of my questions were cleared up in your post. That's the kind of thing I'm wondering. What I had been hearing up till then just didn't seem to make any sense, as the rest of my post went over.

TheVampirologist wrote:
Tedbot I dont think you fully understand my position on this thing yet.

No I dont believe in Osuna's theory or that it was a picture from inside of the house.As far as the negatives go there is a reciept from Suffolk county police inventory online confirming they indeed do exist.
Thanks for clarifying your opinion, too. I couldn't really imagine that some of the theories that I had been reading were really being considered by some people. For myself personally, the Defeo family murders are something a little more touchy than the haunting element. An entire family, including young children, cold-blooded murdered in their beds by a piece of crap is something that needs to be treated differently, more respectful to the family. I wanted to just understand where the idea of these negatives came from and how they relate to the murders, as well as the statement that the 7th body picture appeared on the same strip of negatives as the rest of the police photos from the house.
Are you looking at me?

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:30 pm

If you're not kidding, I'm wondering why you said that?
I was just wondering what you meant by " has anyone else..." I thought you were directing that at my comments. I'm FAR from being any sort of authority on the DeFeo case, but when people attack without doing their own homework, I tend to become a little over-defensive.

User avatar
tedbot
not the face!
Posts: 846
Location: Who wants to know?
Contact:

Post by tedbot » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:36 pm

I was just wondering what you meant by " has anyone else..." I thought you were directing that at my comments. I'm FAR from being any sort of authority on the DeFeo case, but when people attack without doing their own homework, I tend to become a little over-defensive.
I don't think I was attacking. I was asking where the proof of these negatives lie, and how the 7th body actually fits into those negatives. Nothing was directed at anyone, I wanted to know where the proof of these negatives were.
As for doing their homework, I was asking questions here. I thought that's what we are supposed to do. I'm kinda at a loss as to why this is going the way it's going. I reread my questions, and they made sense in the context of the previous posts in this thread. Statements were made of these negatives existing and that this supposed 7th body picture was within those strips, buried amongst crime scene photos from 112 Ocean Avenue. If that is the case, I thought it was something more than just a pic floating around the net, and if this was something being purported to be true, then where does the proof of it lie? That's all I wanted to know. Sorry.
Are you looking at me?

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:40 pm

Erm...sorry? Remember to whom you are speaking ....never apologize to me budfry. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. Now get your ass in chat and let the fighting continue here while we all have some fun! 8)

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1932

Post by msmart112 » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:46 pm

TV,

A simple error is very possible.

I certainly understood what you meant though?the negatives currently on file with the SCPD ?should? match the photos that were taken on 11-13-74.

But that?s if the negative strips currently on file are the originals.

Before the age of digital imaging, negative duplication was a very common practice?especially for law enforcement agencies, libraries, historical societies, financial institutions, etc.

One of biggest reasons for negatives to be duplicated is if they were frequently handled or printed. The DeFeo crime scene photos certainly fit into both of those categories.

With duplication comes various potential issues?specifically in areas of quality. But other issues include images being ?flipped? horizontally, as well as images being included that shouldn?t have been.

Not all previous techniques were simply a matter of copying one strip to another. In many cases, the originals were made into prints, and then the subsequent prints were photographed to create the new set of negatives.

Back when Osuna first made the claim, I looked into this. There were several great sites that explained many of the various duplication processes, but the only one I could quickly dig up was this one?

http://www.nedcc.org/plam3/tleaf53.htm

?it?s interesting to note how the article describes one technique where there is a chance that the images can become horizontally reversed. In one of the crime scene photos that shows a close-up of Dawn?s wound (while her body was still at 112)?it is clear that the image is reversed.

I have seen a scanned version of this photo, and the borders are clearly visible.

Just like it?s nearly impossible for the original negatives to show anything other than what Howard Sommers photographed?it would be nearly impossible for any of his photographs to be reversed?at least in their original state.

But if the negatives had been duplicated over the years?it?s very possible that the error occurred then.

User avatar
TheVampireologist
**ACCOUNT ON HOLD**
Posts: 1007

Post by TheVampireologist » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:09 pm

nsmart I see your point on this to.

If in fact those strips are copies that would be very easy to determine.Since some of the originals must still be in inventory.

Thats the first I have even heard of them being "reversed."

I cant figure out why Osuna would jump to such an inconcievable theory regarding this stuff.I mean here we have him sending off a blow up of this 7th body negative to Chris Dee in England to be reviewed by an "investigative" team.

..and if that is the case why just three negatives available of a similar homicide?Slight mix up?

That very well could be when considering these are not the originals as Osuna came across (to me anyways) as implying they were.I just cant believe even Osuna and this investigative team are that stupid.I would think now that they purposely tried to confuse whoever into believing this stuff to be legitimate because it was to enticing or whatever for the readers of his upcoming book not to include this 7th body mystery.

If that is the case I have to admit it would be a huge let down, for me anyway.
[img]http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/2986/22ns2.jpg[/img]

"He took a face from the ancient gallery...and walked on down the hall" - Lizard king

leathermonkey
Amityville Addict
Posts: 549
Location: North Carolina, USA
Contact:

Post by leathermonkey » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:20 pm

I think Chris Dee's "team" is about as real as his many "characters" when he attacked Tracy's board last year. Ive heard Osuna's work described as "pop criminology", and I agree with that thus far. We will see if his next Amityville Dollouse, er.. courthouse... will be better then his last venture.

dalnkel
Amityville Addict
Posts: 783
Location: london

has ronald defeo been asked about the 7th body

Post by dalnkel » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:24 am

i was just wondering if he has every been asked about the 7th body

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3108

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:52 am

No because there was no 7th body.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9756
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:20 am

I don't Osuna sent Berry-Dee any negs... just scans of the photo's... and besides, Berry-Dee came to the conclusion that Ric was wrong about the 7th body.

I guess when the matter couldn't benefit him any longer!

User avatar
tallman
and a child shall lead them
Posts: 2021
Location: new orleans
Contact:

Post by tallman » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:43 pm

i'll reword it for him: has ronie been asked about the "legend" of the seventh body
and a child shall lead them



[url=http://thehorrorvault.myfreeforum.org]My horror movie Forum[/url]
[img]http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/1825/tallmansig8xt.jpg[/img]

DemonicForce
Amityville Member
Posts: 2
Location: ny

Post by DemonicForce » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:37 pm

yes i'm pretty sure he has, and it's been proven fake.
muahahaha

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:35 pm

Ric Osuna, not only describing his "seventh body" theory, but also describing the "expert Criminologist", Christopher Berry-Dee, says:


"We are, collectively, of the belief that you have seven corpses in the DeFeo residence. That you have brought to light the 'mystery body’ does you much credit. We feel that the odds against this body being found shot, in another room, which is identical or almost identical to the DeFeo basement, are all but impossible. We take into consideration your integrity here and the circumstances of how this photograph came to light."

This expert criminologist wrote in his report, "There were very powerful influences at work once the police arrived. Mafia linked with police contrived to 'tidy' this mess up. DeFeo had his 'confession' beaten out of him; the states’ attorney played his role, while making the occasional slip of the tongue en route. And you have one of the most dishonest judges known to man manipulating the American justice system. But why?"

Ever since uncovering this photo, Osuna has heard rumors that the Suffolk County police had been seen bringing in a large garbage bag full of something into the DeFeo house the day after the murders. In spite of the fact that these rumors have yet to be substantiated, they also have yet to be refuted completely. The possibility that this seventh victim was one of the DeFeo bodies returned to the crime scene in a garbage bag—for whatever reason—has not been ruled out. Were the Suffolk County detectives trying to plant evidence or acquire new photographs? The answer may never be known.




http://www.amityvillemurders.com/seventh.html


Yet as has been clearly pointed out, where in the DeFeo basement, would there have been space for a separate bedroom, let alone this absolutely ridiculous theory?


http://www.amityvillehorrortruth.com/do ... thbody.htm

Post Reply