Dawns Boyfriend

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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Dan the Damned
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by Dan the Damned » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:53 pm

I think Grim makes a good point. And others have made that same point before. I guess the issue of how abusive parents can f*ck up your mental balance is kinda foreign to me, and therefore hard to see. Maybe he was just so f*cked up, he couldn't think clearly and realize he could easily just leave.

Then again, that's just one possible scenario -- and we do have people who knew the family who says they were not an abusive family at all. So I guess we don't really know...

I try to look at this case logically, but murder is just not a logical act... :wall:

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Tim
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by Tim » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:44 pm

Let alone, but Multiple by 6 ?
"Things of this nature happen quite frequently,and when they happen to families, they usually close the door and they don't talk about it; and unless these things are talked about, they'll never be understood." - Kathy Lutz

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Grim_Reaper
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by Grim_Reaper » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:40 am

as i had noted before abuse do do things to you mentally and can cause you mental/emotional issues, particulary to children. i had seen it happen with my own son because of his mother with some similarities to how ron turned out and i myself am a survivor of it (because of a stepmother) but fortunately overcame it. (Found my 'escape' through books).
in the end Ron was a product of what his father made of him with the Drinking and Drugs only adding to that to make it worse

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msammons
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by msammons » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:03 am

I have often thought like Dan, that Ronnie could have left but I also agree about the nature of someone who has been abused. His dad also was an enabler, giving him money and stuff instead of kicking his butt. Maybe he needed to end up drug addled and on the street in the first place to straighten him out. I am not a parent but it must be so hard to know just what to do with a child like that. But there is absolutely no excuse for Ronnie killing his whole family, even if his parents made mistakes. I keep thinking of the statement Ron Sr. made about having a devil on his back. To my mind, he did mean Ronnie, not anything supernatural.
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bella2005
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by bella2005 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:13 pm

I guess that is kind of like how women are beat up by their husbands but never leave and just stay and keep getting abused. I think there is a fear there that keeps you around that abuse.

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Grim_Reaper
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by Grim_Reaper » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:56 am

its like a case of suffering self esteem isues for battered women i think.(for a good example see 'The Burning Bed' with Farrah Fawcett)

way what my kids went through was expained to me like this. while they were still with thier mother they were in 'survivor mode' where they were always on guard for what would happen next. much like men who served in Vietnam were. afterwards when removed from that situation and without the danger they didnt know how to act because they didnt know what it was like to not be under constant threat threat. thats is PTSD or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. as a result my oldest would end up lashing out a lot, likely because it was how he was brought up til i got custody (he was 13 when that happened)in Rons case it lasted tiil his adulthood

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bella2005
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by bella2005 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:10 pm

That does make a lot of sense. It could explain why he thought everyone was after him.

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msammons
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by msammons » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:21 pm

That's a good point Bella, and the drugs probably heightened the paranoia. He probably didn't know if he was coming or going a lot of the time. But again, no excuse for murder.
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msmart112
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by msmart112 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:55 pm

Grim_Reaper wrote:in the end Ron was a product of what his father made of him with the Drinking and Drugs only adding to that to make it worse
How do you know what Mr. DeFeo "made" of Ronnie?
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Grim_Reaper
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by Grim_Reaper » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:23 pm

msmart112 wrote:
Grim_Reaper wrote:in the end Ron was a product of what his father made of him with the Drinking and Drugs only adding to that to make it worse
How do you know what Mr. DeFeo "made" of Ronnie?
it's the same as how were all made over by how our arents raised us. in Butch's case it was through years af abuse from his father. going as far back as when he was 2 years old as Butch's uncle testified his seeing Ron Sr. shoving Butch ino a wall and hitting either his head or shoulder. thoughout his testimone it was claimed that Butch never never struck back at his father yet took out his agression on others around him, particulary his friends, and often in violent destructive ways. not all that inconsistant with a battered child. one of the turning points seems to be when , when Ron Sr was hitting his wife, Butch's mother, Butch grabbed his gun, pointed it at his father head and pulled the trigger. when the gun didnt go off he pulled the trigger again with nothign happenening. so butch left.
its beleived this is when Ron Sr turned more towards religion while for Butch it raised his paraonia

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msmart112
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by msmart112 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:02 pm

Grim_Reaper wrote:it's the same as how were all made over by how our arents raised us. in Butch's case it was through years af abuse from his father. going as far back as when he was 2 years old as Butch's uncle testified his seeing Ron Sr. shoving Butch ino a wall and hitting either his head or shoulder.
How does one incident from the early-fifties automatically become "years of abuse"?
Grim_Reaper wrote:thoughout his testimone it was claimed that Butch never never struck back at his father yet took out his agression on others around him, particulary his friends, and often in violent destructive ways.
In 1975...John Donahue testified that Ronnie had thrown the first punch during an argument with Mr. DeFeo a day or so before the murders.

Many years later...Barry Springer (a very good frind of Ronnie's back in 1974) stated on camera that he recalled times when Ronnie would get "a little tough"...and how "boxing matches" would break out between Ronnie and Mr. DeFeo.
Grim_Reaper wrote:one of the turning points seems to be when , when Ron Sr was hitting his wife, Butch's mother, Butch grabbed his gun, pointed it at his father head and pulled the trigger. when the gun didnt go off he pulled the trigger again with nothign happenening. so butch left. its beleived this is when Ron Sr turned more towards religion while for Butch it raised his paraonia
That story came from Ronnie while he was being interviewed by a psychiatrist in 1975. Ronnie stated that it had happened in 1973.

Yet...while on the stand...Phyllis Procita (Mr. DeFeo's sister) testified that Mr. DeFeo "became religious" after visiting the St. Joseph's Oratory in 1970.
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Dan the Damned
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Re: Dawns Boyfriend

Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:14 pm

msmart112 wrote:
Grim_Reaper wrote:one of the turning points seems to be when , when Ron Sr was hitting his wife, Butch's mother, Butch grabbed his gun, pointed it at his father head and pulled the trigger. when the gun didnt go off he pulled the trigger again with nothign happenening. so butch left. its beleived this is when Ron Sr turned more towards religion while for Butch it raised his paraonia
That story came from Ronnie while he was being interviewed by a psychiatrist in 1975. Ronnie stated that it had happened in 1973.

Yet...while on the stand...Phyllis Procita (Mr. DeFeo's sister) testified that Mr. DeFeo "became religious" after visiting the St. Joseph's Oratory in 1970.
And it's important to note that the only source of this story is Ronnie, himself. Yet he claims this event was witnessed by the entire family. I think it's a bit odd that word of this incident was never passed on from the younger DeFeo kids to their school friends or anyone else for that matter. And even more odd that Ronald Sr would allow his son to still keep guns after this attempted murder. Just really doesn't seem to add up (except when you realize that Ronnie has a history of lying about stuff)...

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