The Truth About Geraldine Gates

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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msmart112
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The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by msmart112 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:35 pm

A Lie is Born

The first mention of "Geraldine DeFeo" was in a March 19, 1986 Newsday article written by Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Bob Keeler...

Newsday Article

...during the interview with Keeler...Ronnie and Geraldine claimed that they had met in 1973...just before Thanksgiving. Geraldine and a friend had to decided to stop at a bar called The Ninth Circle...and Ronnie bought her a drink.

This led to dating...and Geraldine soon became pregnant, and gave birth to her and Ronnie’s daughter (Stephanie) on August 21, 1974 in New Jersey (doing the math...Geraldine would have needed to have gotten pregnant IMMEDIATELY after meeting Ronnie). Once their daughter was born, Mr. DeFeo strongly encouraged Ronnie to marry Geraldine. The marriage allegedly took place on October 17, 1974 at the Garfield Grant Hotel in Long Branch, NJ.

Oddly enough...when Bob Keeler checked the New Jersey Registrar of Vital Statistics...there was no record of the alleged birth...nor was there any record of the alleged marriage (Geraldine had provided Keeler a copy of what she claimed was the marriage certificate). And when Keeler contacted the city magistrate whose name appeared on the certificate...the man (Thomas Baldino) stated that he had not performed any marriages after 1964.

Here is a document from the New Jersey Registrar of Vital Statistics that shows no marriage between Ronnie and Geraldine in 1974...

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...and here is a document that shows the daughter born to Geraldine on August 21, 1974 as having a Joseph Pisani as a father...

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How could this be? Is it possible that Ronnie and/or Geraldine were liars...and capable of forgery?

Fraudulent Affidavits

Several years later...Ronnie filed a 440 motion. In an attempt to show that he and Geraldine had indeed been married prior to the murders (to support his ridiculous claim that he had been in the basement with a fictional brother-in-law when the murders took place)...Ronnie asked two of his old friends, Barry Springer and Charles Tewksbury, to sign affidavits that would establish him as having been married to Geraldine prior to the murders...

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...both Springer and Tewksbury would later recant their statements. And notice how both affidavits are worded exactly the same...almost as if they were prepared by someone else.

Here is Barry Springer admitting (in 2003) that he was simply "going along with a story"...

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Here...Barry Springer talks about Chuck Tewksbury. Notice how Springer describes Tewksbury retracting his affidavit...and how Tewksbury stated that he never even read the statement he signed...

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...if Chuck Tewksbury had written his own affidavit...why would he have needed to have read it? Maybe because someone else wrote it for him?

Here’s part of a letter from Frank Davidge to Ronnie DeFeo...

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...so now we also have Frank Davidge stating that he received an affidavit that was already prepared.

Here are parts of an affidavit that John Carswell wrote in which he retracted a previous affidavit...as well as part of a court document that references John Carswell...

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...I wonder how John Carwell's original affidavit was notarized when it was served upon the court...when he clearly stated that he never appeared before a notary?

It sure makes you wonder if other affidavits had been prepared in advance and illegally notarized, eh?

This 1990 statement by Geraldine goes a long way in answering some of those questions...

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The Night the DeFeos Died

In 2002...a book came out titled The Night the DeFeos Died. The book was written by Ric Osuna...and was heavily based on the word of Geraldine.

According to this book...Ronnie and Geraldine had not met in November of 1973...but in May of 1969...when Ronnie was only 17.

And Geraldine didn’t just happen to stop at The Ninth Circle with a friend...but she was performing there as a singer.

And they didn’t get married in 1974...but in 1970.

And Mr. DeFeo didn’t encourage the marriage...he was all of a sudden against it (so much so that Ronnie and Gerri had to elope).

From TNTDD...

After Butch’s arraignment (November 15, 1974), he was transferred to the Suffolk County Jail. Finally out of the hands of the homicide squad, Geraldine got her first chance to see her husband since his incarceration. "He walked out, and I almost didn’t recognize him," Geraldine said.

...and then a little later...

On her way out of the jail, Geraldine met up with Rocco DeFeo and Michael Brigante Sr. She recalled, "Immediately upon seeing me, Mike and Rocco pushed me into a phone booth. They told me I had to be careful and that I had to stop being Butch’s wife. When I asked why, they told me their connections informed them that the cops had realized that it was an impossibility that Butch could have killed everyone alone. They had felt that a female had to have kept the kids quiet, so they were beginning to feel they needed to find an accomplice. Big Mike and Rocco did not want to risk the cops implicating me, so they told me I no longer existed as Butch’s wife."

...if the idea was to hide the fact (from the police) that Geraldine was Ronnie’s wife...wouldn’t it have been a little late since she had JUST left the jail (and presumably identified herself to the police when she asked to see Ronnie)?

And if wouldn’t have been the first time that Geraldine had identified herself to the police as Ronnie’s wife...

Speeding the entire way, Geraldine drove the 90 miles in record time, and arrived close to midnight, just in time to see the body bags being carried out. "Words cannot describe the surreal atmosphere. It was like a dream. The people in the body bags were my family. I was so sure that Butch was dead," Geraldine said.

After joining the other relatives, Michael Brigante Sr. assured Geraldine that Butch was alive and that he had been taken in for questioning. Although she would later try to see her husband, the police refused access to him, reasoning that he had not finished giving his statement.


...wouldn’t the police have wondered who she was and subsequently questioned her (as they did with the rest of Ronnie’s relatives and friends)?

A little later...

According to sources, there was a meeting that took place at a race track between representatives of the Colombo and Genovese crime families. Since the Genovese family had the best hit men around, it is reported that the Colombos wanted to use one of the hit men to kill Butch. Although the request was denied, the Genovese family agreed to assist with getting rid of any trace that Butch and Geraldine had been married. After all, Geraldine’s family and friends were concerned about her safety as much as Michael Brigante Sr. was. This alleged meeting fit perfectly with what my Suffolk County deep throat source told me. He said, "Money and power can make anything disappear."

...but if we go back to the beginning of TNTDD...

On November 17, 1974, three days after Butch DeFeo had reportedly confessed to killing his entire family, a memorial service was held for the six DeFeos at the Boyd Funeral Home in Deer Park. "Upon entering the chapel, you became weak at the knees from seeing the six wooden coffins in front of you," Geraldine DeFeo recalled.

...so Michael Brigante and Rocco DeFeo instructed Geraldine on November 15, 1974 that she could no longer exist as Ronnie’s wife...but then two days later...she showed up at the memorial service (which would have been swarming with police officer and reporters)?

A little later...

Butch couldn’t stand seeing me like that, so in 1977 he filed for divorce. No matter how much he still loved me, he wanted me to be free."

Because of his friendship with Carlo Gambino and his connection to the Colombos, not to mention Geraldine’s ties to the Genovese family, Butch and Geraldine’s marriage license and divorce papers miraculously disappeared.


...if Michael Brigante and Rocco DeFeo (with the assistance of the Colombo and Genovese crime families) had destroyed ALL TRACES of Ronnie’s and Geraldine’s marriage...why would there have been a need for a divorce?

That Silly Sheriff’s ID Card

From TNTDD...

To help alleviate any concerns about her authenticity, she immediately showed me a sheriff’s identification card once I arrived. Mrs. DeFeo claimed she had obtained the ID through fingerprinting and a valid marriage license. Even though the card seemed genuine, I still took it to the Cayuga County Sheriff’s office, where it had been issued in 1985, to have it verified.

After I asked for a written verification of the card’s legitimacy, the sheriff’s clerk wrote, "The enclosed personal identification card is true and original from the Cayuga County Sheriff’s Department, which was issued on July 16, 1985."

So was this a case of a woman marrying a convicted mass murderer while he was in prison for his notoriety? Not so. It was not until 1989 that a federal judge reversed a New York law prohibiting inmates with life sentences, like Butch DeFeo, the right to marry. Her ID card, on the other hand, was issued in 1985.


...if Michael Brigante and Rocco DeFeo (with the help of Carlo Gambino as well as the Colombo and Genovese crime families) had destroyed all traces of Ronnie’s and Geraldine’s marriage (not just once but TWICE)...how was Geraldine able to provide a valid marriage license?

For that matter...how was Geraldine able to provide Bob Keeler a marriage license in 1986?

Here’s how Ronnie explains it (not that he’s the most credible source)...

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...and Geraldine seems to concur...

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If Bob Keeler was able to determine that the marriage license was fake...shouldn’t the Cayuga County Sheriff’s Department have been able to do the same?

Here’s how Ronnie explains it...

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...again...Ronnie isn’t the most credible source...but you have to wonder...why did Geraldine bother with a sheriff’s ID card? Why not a state ID card or a driver’s license?

And why did Geraldine get the card from Cayuga County...two counties and ninety miles away from Broome County (where she lived at the time)...

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And let’s take a look at the card in question...

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...why would she have listed Ronnie as the emergency contact? In TNTDD...it was written that Geraldine had two daughters before she met Ronnie (in 1969). So these daughters would have been adults (or close to it) in 1985. Yet she listed Ronnie as the emergency contact? Not her daughters...not some other relative...not a close friend or neighbor...but a man who was incarcerated? Yeah...some help he would have been in an emergency.

And what’s with giving a phone number for Ronnie? Did he have a phone in his cell?

This certainly doesn’t seem like a legitimate, functional identification card...but rather...a way for Geraldine to represent herself as someone she wasn’t.

A Life of Crime

From TNTDD...

But in 1980, Geraldine found herself in legal troubles that eventually got her incarcerated for a period of 14 months. She claimed that Butch DeFeo had become so bitter after her departure from his life that he lashed out at her, setting her up to be prosecuted for passing bad checks.

...as if any reasonable person would believe that Ronnie could have orchestrated such a thing from prison.

And Geraldine’s legal troubles most certainly started prior to 1980.

Here’s an article from the March 24, 1979 edition of the Binghamton Sun...

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Here’s a document from Geraldine’s March 23, 1979 arraignment...

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Here’s a felony complaint stating that Geraldine stole a 1977 Chevy Nova on October 6, 1978...

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Here’s a bench warrant that was issued after Geraldine violated the terms of her probation...

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...so as you can see...it wasn’t Ronnie who caused Geraldine to become incarcerated...it was Geraldine who caused Geraldine to become incarcerated.

Speaking of Ronnie...did you notice that the last name "DeFeo" did not appear on any of the documents? One of the last names that you DID see was "Gates"...and that’s because Geraldine was married to (and is still married to) Gerald Gates.

Love and Marriage

Putting the pieces together...Geraldine’s matrimonial history goes something like this...

In 1964, Geraldine married Fred Cory at the Garfield Grant Hotel in Long Branch, NJ

In 1974, Geraldine married Joseph Pisani in Vestal, NY (and had a child by him in the same year)

In 1978, Geraldine married Gerald Gates in Totowa, NJ

In 1985 (possibly a little earlier), Geraldine met Ronnie DeFeo

In 1989...on July 5...Geraldine married Ronnie DeFeo (even though she was still married to Gerald Gates)

Here is part of the divorce decision...

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...and here is part of a statement that Geraldine gave to the Suffolk County Police Department...

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In 1993...Ronnie and Geraldine were divorced

Friends of the Family

Linnea Nonnewitz was employed as the DeFeo housekeeper from December of 1969 until November of 1974...

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...and here is an interesting letter in which Mrs. Nonnewitz states that she FIRST met Geraldine in 1985...

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Grace Fagan was best friends with Dawn DeFeo...and she testified that she had known Dawn for three years...and had spent seven days a week at the DeFeo home...

William Weber: How long have you known the DeFeo family?

Grace Fagan: Three years.

William Weber: Did you spend much time at their home?

Grace Fagan: Yes, I did.

William Weber: Will you tell us approximately how much time you spent at their home?

Grace Fagan: Seven days a week.


...here is a portion of Grace’s testimony where she describes Ronnie’s 23rd birthday party of September 26, 1974...

William Weber: Do you recall the date of Butch’s birthday?

Grace Fagan: Oh, yes.

William Weber: Were you at Butch’s house on that day?

Grace Fagan: Yes, I was.

William Weber: Will you describe what, if anything, occurred on September 26, 1974?

Grace Fagan: We had a cake for him because it was his birthday. And –

William Weber: Who was present?

Grace Fagan: Besides me, just the family. His mother, his father, and the kids, and him. That’s it. And we had a cake for him and we had his presents and all.


...very interesting. Wouldn’t Geraldine have been there if she was indeed Ronnie’s wife at the time? Wouldn’t Ronnie have wanted to celebrate his birthday with his wife and month-old daughter?

An Affair With a Barmaid

From TNTDD...

But according to Geraldine, it was while she was pregnant that she considered leaving Butch for good over an affair he was having with a barmaid by the name of Mindy Weiss. It was Butch’s belief, as it was his father’s, that a wife should be a lady in the street, but a whore in bed. Because Geraldine was pregnant, Butch refused to have intercourse with his wife, so once again he strayed. In August 1974, Butch’s daughter was born, so he ended the affair and reconciled with his wife by once again reaffirming his vows.

...so Mindy was just some barmaid who Ronnie was having an affair with?

And Ronnie stopped seeing Mindy after Stephanie was born in August?

Then why did Ronnie mention Mindy in his statement...

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...and for that matter...why did Ronnie NOT mention Gerri in his statement? After all...the decision to make Gerri disappear didn’t happen until a few days later.

In reality...Ronnie was involved with Mindy Weiss well after August of 1974.

From the trial...

William Weber: Were there any occasions, Mindy, where Ronnie visited with members of your family?

Mindy Weiss: Around September ’74, Ronnie came to dinner with my family.


...and then...

William Weber: Do you recall an occasion where Ronnie came to your apartment one night and wanted you to go out with him?

Mindy Weiss: Yes.

William Weber: Would you describe what happened then? Well, first can we get the approximate time?

Mindy Weiss: September again, ’74. He came to my house, and to the best of my recollection, it was late. He wanted to go out and I didn’t want to go.


...and then...

William Weber: Mindy, since Ronnie was arrested for this, have you visited him at the Suffolk County Jail?

Mindy Weiss: Yes, sir.


Here’s a portion of John Carwell’s testimony...

William Weber: John, I call your attention to September of 1974. Do you recall an incident that occurred at the Intrepid Bar?

John Carswell: Yes, I do.

William Weber: And where is that bar located?

John Carswell: It is located in East Massapequa now. Used to be in West Amityville. They rezoned it.

Judge Stark: Where was it in September, ’74?

John Carswell: West Amityville.

William Weber: Did you see Ronnie DeFeo Jr., at that time?

John Carswell: Yes, I did.

William Weber: At about what time was it?

John Carswell: I would say about 11 o’clock – 11, 12 o’clock in the evening.

William Weber: What did you observe concerning Ronnie?

John Carswell: Well, I just – on that day I just drove into the parking lot, and Ronnie was there already. And he was there with Mindy.


Additionally...Steve Hicks testified about going to the hospital with Ronnie, Charles Tewksbury, Barry Springer and Mindy Weiss the day that Marc DeFeo was hurt in a football game (in September of 1974).

During the hearing...Mindy Weiss (being questioned by Willam Weber) testified about calling the house on November 13th...and that Bobby Kelske had answered and told her that there was trouble (and that they would call her back).

She then drove over to the house...talked to a detective...and then went inside of the Ireland's house. She was later questioned by a Detective Grieco. After that...she said that Richard Wyssling approached her...identified himself as Ronnie's attorney...and gave her a business card. She tried calling him about 2:00 a.m. on the 14th...and also during the afternoon of the 14th.

At this point...Sullivan kept objecting...and Judge Stark kept sustaining the objections...so Weber dropped the line of questioning (i.e. he stopped asking Mindy questions about Wyssling).

Later...when Wyssling was on the stand...Weber brought it up again...and Sullivan wanted to know what the relevance was (Weber was trying to establish that Wyssling was acting as Ronnie's attorney in the hours following the discovery of the bodies)...

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...so Ronnie's mother, father, two brothers, and two sisters had just been murdered...but instead of seeking the comfort of his own wife and daughter after such a tragic event...he was going to spend the night with Mindy Weiss...some "barmaid" who he supposedly hadn't seen (according to Geraldine) since August???

Falsified Documents

Within this post...we’ve already seen instances where Geraldine had admitted how documents were forged, altered, etc.

So now let’s take a look at this letter dated October 16, 1982...

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...as you can see...Ronnie mentions Judge Stark, an Assistant District Attorney, William Weber (and how Weber attempted to profit from Ronnie’s case)...and June 23, 1982.

How ironic is it that Ronnie had no motions or appeals pending in June of 1982...but he DID have a motion pending in 1992?

From TNTDD...

On June 22, 1992, Justice Stark, once again, presided over a preliminary hearing to determine if Butch’s allegations held any merit. During the two days of testimony, Gerald Lotto, Butch’s court appointed attorney for the proceedings, called numerous witnesses to testify, including Roger and Linnea Nonnewitz, William Weber, William Davidge, John Carswell, Steven Hicks, Gerard Sullivan, Charles Tewksbury and, of course, Butch.

...the hearing was indeed held on June 22 and June 23 of 1992.

Clearly the dates on the letter were changed in a pathetic attempt to show that Ronnie and Geraldine knew each other as far back as 1982.

Even if Geraldine was not the person who changed the dates...she still knowingly allowed Ric Osuna to show the letter on his website.
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Howard64
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Howard64 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:32 pm

well i guess that is that...nice work max!
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Shawn
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Shawn » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:36 pm

Here is something interesting. i posted this link in another thread(the theft one) and noticed at the end of the article it mentions that a girlfriend had turned Ronnie in for drugs. Anyone know who this girl was? It's obvious Ronnie was NOT married at the time to anyone.

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/research/1 ... _Theft.pdf
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Christopher Lutz » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:22 pm

wow, serious effort put forth in your research Max !

:clap:


Myself, not having known any of the DeFeos' or Geraldine, I didn't know what to think of what has been stated as "true".

That was pretty conclusive!

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Skyelyte
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Skyelyte » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:31 pm

I have to agree this is very impressive work on the 'Truth About Geraldine Gates'

Ha ha now maybe I understand why Max is it? gave me such a hard time about backing up what I said with proof. But boy oh boy, you might have to torture me severely to get me to do all this work just for enjoyment. lol

And hello there Chris! It is great to see you here on this board!!! :) :) :dance:

changed the emoticons, oops sorry Chris, honestly I wasn't laughing at you ;)

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Dan the Damned
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Dan the Damned » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:14 am

Yes, Max's post is fantastic! And the evidence presented is just the tip of the iceberg. :shock:

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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Kinzoku » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:29 pm

what a confusing web of lies woven........

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Shawn
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Shawn » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:40 pm

I think it's fascinating. Totally. The lies are exposed without any question yet they still deny it. :naughty:
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Skyelyte
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Skyelyte » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:19 am

I must say, IMO I never questioned what a messed up liar......... well ya know, the name that is included in this topic is and that person AHEM! has always been.

But this work by Max, to provide the unquestionable truth is beyond a great effort to back this up and provide undeniable proof.

Bravo to you yet again Max :clap:

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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by blueroc85 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:48 am

Kinzoku wrote:what a confusing web of lies woven........
I agree Kinzoku!

Thank you to msmart for providing some clairification. It was a great read!
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Baphomet666 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:05 am

Thats proof right there that Gerri Gates was definetly an imposter/fraud.I wonder wht she looks like today.
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Shawn
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Shawn » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:37 pm

The really, really funny part is how they insist that Geri was told AFTER ronnie was in jail that she could not be married to him anymore YET nothing was ever said by the press that he had a wife NOR was she brought up at the trial as being his wife! :roll:
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msmart112
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by msmart112 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:13 am

Dan the Damned wrote:And the evidence presented is just the tip of the iceberg. :shock:
Indeed, Dan...as there is much, much more.

The key is having an associate in New York...

Someone who can dig into county and state court records

Someone who can dig into microfiche from newspapers like the Daily Star and the Press & Sun Bulletin (formerly The Evening Press and The Sun-Bulletin)...especially the articles from the seventies and eighties

Someone who can interview people
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Dan the Damned
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Dan the Damned » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:22 pm

As an example of "yet more evidence," in Ric's book Geraldine says she lived with Ronnie in Elberon, New Jersey, at the time of the murders.
...Butch returned to 112 Ocean Avenue. Knowing he needed to start formulating an alibi, Butch called Geraldine at their New Jersey home. Geraldine recalled, "I was awakened by Butch's phone call at around 1:25 a.m. He wanted me to come down to the Lincoln Tunnel because he said he had no money for the toll and had no cigarettes on him. Since it was a school night, I wasn't about to wake up the children, so I told him to go back to Amityville to get money."


Here's a map of the area:

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The route in blue takes you from Elberon, NJ to Amityville, NY. Note how you go nowhere near Manhattan or the Lincoln Tunnel. There is no reason for either of them to travel through the city to get from point A to point B.

Unless Geraldine is thinking of the route from upstate New York (say Binghampton, where her daughter's 1974 birth certificate is from; or nearby Deposit, where she lives today). As shown by the red arrow, that route from upstate New York to Amityville takes you right through Manhattan!

Just another in a series of nutty coincidences that seems to back up our assertion that Geraldine lived in upstate New York with Joseph Pisani in 1974 and not with Ronnie DeFeo in New Jersey? :think:

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msmart112
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by msmart112 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:33 pm

From TNTDD...

On her way out of the jail, Geraldine met up with Rocco DeFeo and Michael Brigante Sr. She recalled, "Immediately upon seeing me, Mike and Rocco pushed me into a phone booth. They told me I had to be careful and that I had to stop being Butch’s wife. When I asked why, they told me their connections informed them that the cops had realized that it was an impossibility that Butch could have killed everyone alone. They had felt that a female had to have kept the kids quiet, so they were beginning to feel they needed to find an accomplice. Big Mike and Rocco did not want to risk the cops implicating me, so they told me I no longer existed as Butch’s wife."

...and then...

According to sources, there was a meeting that took place at a race track between representatives of the Colombo and Genovese crime families. Since the Genovese family had the best hit men around, it is reported that the Colombos wanted to use one of the hit men to kill Butch. Although the request was denied, the Genovese family agreed to assist with getting rid of any trace that Butch and Geraldine had been married. After all, Geraldine’s family and friends were concerned about her safety as much as Michael Brigante Sr. was. This alleged meeting fit perfectly with what my Suffolk County deep throat source told me. He said, "Money and power can make anything disappear."

...so after being ordered to cease being Ronnie’s wife...and after all the work of the mafia to destroy every trace that Ronnie and Geraldine had been married...not only did Geraldine show up at the memorial service...

On November 17, 1974, three days after Butch DeFeo had reportedly confessed to killing his entire family, a memorial service was held for the six DeFeos at the Boyd Funeral Home in Deer Park. “Upon entering the chapel, you became weak at the knees from seeing the six wooden coffins in front of you,” Geraldine DeFeo recalled.

...but less than a year later...she shows up in Amityville to meet with George, Kathy and William Weber...

Although she disagreed with Weber’s plan, Geraldine was asked to help convince Butch that he had to act unstable. So sometime in the fall, she accompanied Weber to a bar in Amityville to meet the Lutzes.

...yeah...no better way to stay "hidden" than to meet three people at a bar in Amityville...and no better way to "not be Ronnie’s wife" than to arrive at the meeting as Ronnie’s wife. :roll:
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Dan the Damned
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by Dan the Damned » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:21 pm

Good points. She's in danger from being implicated in the murders, so why would that danger not still be in effect today? And if the mob went around destroying all evidence of their marriage, why risk attending the DeFeo funeral, as you point out? And why visit Ronnie constantly in prison if you're concerned about breaking your secret identity:
"Everyone was gone: Butch, Allison, all of them. My hopes and dreams died on November 13, 1974. So I couldn't bear life if I wasn't high on something. And I would spend most of my free time near Butch, crying from the start of the visit to the end. Butch couldn't stand seeing me like that, so in 1977 he filed for divorce."
And when you mention the meeting between Geraldine, the Lutzes and Bill Weber, you're referring to Geraldine's claim that she met these people in a bar, long before the Lutzes bought the house. Geraldine claims the Lutzes knew Weber and were in cahoots with him to try and keep Ronnie from going to jail, and that George kept insisting that they buy the house and pretend it's haunted in order to give Ronnie a "Devil made me do it" defense (despite the fact that the Lutzes didn't buy the house until a month after the trial was already over).

That's Geraldine's ridiculous claim. Yet another incident where she risked being identified as Ronnie's wife. So if this story is true, and she knew the haunting was a scam from the start, then why would she track down Father Ray years later, as shown in this citation from "The Night the DeFeos Died"?
Angered over the magnitude of the hoax, in the early 1980s, Geraldine DeFeo sought out Father Pecoraro. Geraldine recalled, "The first time I talked to him, I must have called him every name in the book. I considered it a sin for a priest to do what he did. All he could tell me was to calm down and that he would pray for me."

"I then tracked him down to a bar in Asbury Park, New Jersey, to confront him about the ordeal the Lutzes were putting the DeFeos through. He finally admitted to me that the voice he heard say "get out' was, in fact, George Lutz on a tape recorder."
Laughable. Father Ray left the Rockville Centre diocese because of the media attention. We're supposed to believe that he successfully hid from seasoned reporters but was discovered by Geraldine "Miss Marple" Gates? Not likely, especially since it was later reported that Father Ray was, in fact, in a diocese in Northern California around that time.

But despite the impossibility of her claim, what's up with that "he finally admitted" line? If Geraldine knew it was all a hoax (from her 1975 barroom visit with Weber & the Lutzes), why would she need Father Ray to admit anything to her?

And if this all stemmed from some sort of righteous indignation (curiously around the same time she was imprisoned for grand larceny), then why didn't she come forward with her story about the haunting being a hoax long before the year 2000? As we can see, she sure didn't seem to care about revealing herself as Ronnie's wife on all these other occasions. If she was so very angered by the magnitude of "the hoax" that she takes the time to track down Father Ray, why not team up with Steven Kaplan or Rick Moran or just come out on her own and publicly declare the haunting was a sham back in the 70s or 80s?

No. We hear nothing of her insider information on the haunting until Ric's book came out in 2002. Is she no longer in danger of being arrested as an accomplice of the DeFeo murder today?

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msmart112
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by msmart112 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:And why visit Ronnie constantly in prison if you're concerned about breaking your secret identity:
"Everyone was gone: Butch, Allison, all of them. My hopes and dreams died on November 13, 1974. So I couldn't bear life if I wasn't high on something. And I would spend most of my free time near Butch, crying from the start of the visit to the end. Butch couldn't stand seeing me like that, so in 1977 he filed for divorce."
Not only did Geraldine supposedly visit Ronnie in prison...but she brought Stephanie along as well...

"At first, Butch was happy that I brought his daughter to see him at Clinton Correctional. But a few visits later, he ordered me not to bring her back because he did not want his daughter exposed to the filth or degradation found there," Geraldine said.

...so yeah...again...we have Geraldine being Ronnie's wife when she wasn't supposed to be Ronnie's wife.

It's also interesting how Geraldine said that she spent most of her free time near Ronnie. The drive from Elberon, NJ to Dannemora, NY (where Clinton Correctional is) is a SIX HOUR drive.

Back to Stephanie...according to TNTDD...

On August 21, 1974, less than three months before the murders, Shea Marie DeFeo was born. Although shielded from the public since her father’s trial, and even more so after the hoax began, Shea Marie has struggled with her own identity.

...so shielding her from the public included bringing her to see Ronnie in prison?

Then there's the interview between Ric Osuna and Stephanie...

RO: How did you find out who your father was?

SM: You get older, you get nosy and start going through things in rooms that you are not supposed to see. There, I found letters from him to my mom.

RO: How old were you at this time?

SM: Ten or eleven.


...Stephanie was born in 1974...so she would have found out that Ronnie was her father in 1984 or 1985. So...what did Geraldine possibly tell her up until then?

And...Geraldine allegedly had two older daughters...one of which who was old enough to have hung out with Allison...

Often, when Geraldine would accompany Butch to Amityville, she would bring along her daughters. It was at this time that Stacy befriended Allison. The two girls would sit in Allison’s room looking at fashion magazines and catalogs, picking out the makeup and clothes they would buy once they were old enough.

Recalling her visits to 112 Ocean Avenue, Stacy said, "I remember hoping we would leave before Mr. DeFeo came home. The dock and the water near the house was what I really liked the best. I also liked sitting at the end of it with Allison."


…so SURELY she would have known....yet somehow...they all managed to keep it a secret?

Then we get this...

RO: Have you ever gone by the DeFeo house?

SM: Yeah, I was real young, about four. My mother brought me there with my stepsisters. We couldn’t go up to the house because someone was living there, but I remember thinking it was a nice house. I remember my mother walking around the yard and just staring intensely. Afterwards, I met Grandmother Brigante for the first time, and some of the other relatives. I think we all went to Jones Beach that day.


...so she met Grandmother Brigante and other relatives in 1978...but didn’t learn that Ronnie was her father until 1984/1985?

It's also interesting to note that in 1986...when Bob Keeler of Newsday interviewed Ronnie and Geraldine...they told him that Stephanie had been told that her father was dead...but someone at school told her that her father was alive...and was the “Amityville Horror” killer.
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High Hopes
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by High Hopes » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:39 pm

MSMART112

Take a BOW!!!



:applause: :applause: :applause:
"The wheel locked" I'd blame Detorit, a lot faster than I would the Devil!

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msmart112
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by msmart112 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:42 pm

From this 1986 Newsday article…

Newsday Article

...Ronnie and Geraldine supposedly met in November of 1973...and were supposedly married in 1974.

And in this version…Mr. DeFeo supposedly almost FORCED Ronnie to marry Geraldine once Stephanie was born.

Then from this 1989 affidavit...

1989 Affidavit Page One

1989 Affidavit Page Two

...Geraldine swears that her and Ronnie met in January of 1971...and were married in 1974.

Although...again...Mr. DeFeo supposedly strongly encouraged them to get married.

But then from Ric Osuna’s TNTDD...

In 1969, Geraldine Romondoe had a promising singing career that kept her on the road traveling between bars and night clubs along the East Coast. Even though she was only 21 years old, she was a divorcee with two daughters.

In May of that year, she was singing at the popular New York City bar called The Ninth Circle. "One night while I was singing there, a group of kids came in," Geraldine said. "They were loud and obnoxious, and obviously too young to drink."

Later that summer, Geraldine and Butch would meet again. Singing at The Ebb Tide, a bar near Long Branch, New Jersey, Geraldine had left the stage to take a break.

For more reasons than one, Big Ronnie frowned on his son’s courtship. Nevertheless, in October 1970, Butch and Geraldine eloped in New Jersey.


...Ronnie and Geraldine all of a sudden supposedly met in May of 1969...and all of a sudden supposedly married in 1970?

And now all of a sudden...Mr. DeFeo was supposedly so much against the marriage that Ronnie and Geraldine had to elope?

Wow...if you’re going to lie and make things up...wouldn’t you at LEAST be consistent?

Here’s how it stands...

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And let's take another look at TNTDD...

In May of that year, she was singing at the popular New York City bar called The Ninth Circle. "One night while I was singing there, a group of kids came in," Geraldine said. "They were loud and obnoxious, and obviously too young to drink."

...the legal drinking age in New York in 1969 was 18. So Geraldine was saying that Ronnie and his friends were obviously under 18.

Yet several paragraphs later...

Although Geraldine enjoyed herself enough on their first date to keep seeing Butch, it would be several months later, when he turned 18, that Geraldine found out she had been dating a minor.

...so if Geraldine knew the first moment that she ever saw Ronnie DeFeo that he was under 18...how could she not have known that he was under 18? :roll:
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sherbetbizarre
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:34 pm

And yet another date...

http://amityvilletruth.freeservers.com/ebay.htm

...which Ric confirmed at one point.

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astonio
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Re: The Truth About Geraldine Gates

Post by astonio » Wed May 25, 2011 7:30 am

Hmmm...Bump
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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