2nd gun found?

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
Post Reply
miristash
Amityville Member
Posts: 2

2nd gun found?

Post by miristash » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:20 am

Just heard about the possible second gun that's been found and confused as to why no one on here is talking about it. See here for info http://www.freddyinspace.com/2012/01/ne ... th-of.html

VintageBoy91
Amityville Addict
Posts: 522
Location: Germany

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by VintageBoy91 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:40 am

It's just one of Ryan's stories. How do we know that THIS gun was used? There is no proof for it. And the 1974 police reports also say that all victims were shot with the same rifle. Why the police should lie? With this made-up story Ryan Katzenbach only wants to make publicity for his movie.

miristash
Amityville Member
Posts: 2

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by miristash » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:49 am

But on the same basis, how do we know this gun WASN't used? Why would the police lie??? Are you saying there has never been mis-carriages of justice or reports slightly changed to get the result the cops want? Also in 1974 how good were forensics when it comes to gunshots? Even fingerprinting was all that reliable back then.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9819
Contact:

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:22 am

This has been mentioned in the epic Shat Hopes thread...

User avatar
DC Fan
Amityville Addict
Posts: 373

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by DC Fan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:05 am

miristash wrote:But on the same basis, how do we know this gun WASN't used? Why would the police lie??? Are you saying there has never been mis-carriages of justice or reports slightly changed to get the result the cops want? Also in 1974 how good were forensics when it comes to gunshots? Even fingerprinting was all that reliable back then.
The evidence available for the theory that no second gun was used is also discussed here.
http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... f=9&t=8512

Police conspiracy to me implies that they had in mind someone to be the fall guy, someone to benefit from it and some kind of plan that some honest entering of evidence into the record by one of the many people at the crime scene might screw up. For example, let's say that one of the victims is a guy who had gotten out of bed and was shot while standing, but their cover -up requires that all victims be shot in their beds. In that case, they need to make sure there are no available crime scene photos of that area, because they would show bloodstains on the carpet.

Well I guess the photographer didn't get the memo because photos of that area where Ron Sr. was supposedly shot are available. They show clean carpets with no blood.

Let's not forget that Ronnie didn't just give a confession--he gave a credible confession that included telling the police where to find evidence that worked specifically against him. And now it's those with some other theory to try to establish Ronnie's less than credible stories that have to go scuba diving.

For these reasons I have a difficult time believing that the police did not conduct an honest and good enough investigation, although it is true that they do not always do it right.

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3109

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:43 am

miristash wrote:But on the same basis, how do we know this gun WASN't used? Why would the police lie??? Are you saying there has never been mis-carriages of justice or reports slightly changed to get the result the cops want? Also in 1974 how good were forensics when it comes to gunshots? Even fingerprinting was all that reliable back then.
Can't prove a negative. How do we know that men in black helipcopters didn't finish the DeFeos and blame it on Ronnie?

Ronnie was involved no matter what. We don't know if he had an accomplish. Ronnie was the one who led cops to the murder weapon. Ronnie is the one who keeps changes his stories. Ronnie has no one to blame for his predictament other than himself. If he had just shot his father or parents, he probably would be out by now.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out gunshot forsentics. The bullets are pretty easy to idenify what kind of gun or guns they come from.

User avatar
Rokiisun
I am the year 1989
Posts: 1191
Location: Scotland

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Rokiisun » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:54 am

A gun was found. But that depends if you believe in the 'second gun' theory.

I always assumed that all the bullets came from the marlin - the one bullet which
supposedly could not be identified, I still think came from the same marlin. Maybe
the bullet got damaged in the chamber as it was fired?

I'm still open to the theory, but I highly doubt a second gun was used.

Why was it only fired once?

Does the second gun necessarily support evidence that there could be an accomplice?
The second gun theory could also be evidence that Ronnie had to reload.
It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.

User avatar
Deadguydan
Amityville Addict
Posts: 187

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Deadguydan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:37 pm

I've been told that the bullet fragment found in Louise DeFeo's body actually didn't quite match the rest of the bullets. The rifling was a little different or either the damage was so bad it was hard to tell if the rifling was the same. Either way the possibility is kind of there. A .38, .35 and .357 are ALL THE SAME caliber. The rifling will tell the story. You could also go and check out the batch that the bullets were manufactured from. If they all come from the same batch of lead at the manufacturer then they all were shot through the Marlin. If the damaged bullet differs then it came from another batch and therefore NOT fired from the Marlin.

User avatar
Rokiisun
I am the year 1989
Posts: 1191
Location: Scotland

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Rokiisun » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:51 pm

I don't know if this is possible (I'm not an expert on guns) but what if Ronnie put an entirely different bullet
in the rifle chamber?
It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3109

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:21 pm

Deadguydan wrote:I've been told that the bullet fragment found in Louise DeFeo's body actually didn't quite match the rest of the bullets. The rifling was a little different or either the damage was so bad it was hard to tell if the rifling was the same. Either way the possibility is kind of there. A .38, .35 and .357 are ALL THE SAME caliber. The rifling will tell the story. You could also go and check out the batch that the bullets were manufactured from. If they all come from the same batch of lead at the manufacturer then they all were shot through the Marlin. If the damaged bullet differs then it came from another batch and therefore NOT fired from the Marlin.

We can be told anything (especially on the internet). I was told that the sky is green. The key is whether there is anything to back up these claims.

User avatar
Deadguydan
Amityville Addict
Posts: 187

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Deadguydan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:52 pm

I don't know if this is possible (I'm not an expert on guns) but what if Ronnie put an entirely different bullet
in the rifle chamber?
The jacket for a rifle bullet is longer than a pistol jacket so Ronnie would have had to use a rifle bullet. For that rifle it would have to be the .35.

Victoria I understand you point and this was told to me via an email conversation. I think there is some evidence of this but I don't particularly want to share a private email conversation that I have had with Ryan. From what I was told there is evidence that we haven't seen yet. I am hoping to see it in parts 2 and 3 of Ryan's documentary.

User avatar
Anarane
Amityville Member
Posts: 58

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Anarane » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:04 pm

Whether you believe the second gun theory or not, you can't deny that this is intriguing. I'm 99.9% certain it's unrelated give the size of the river and the teeny, tiny odds that of it actually being connected to the DeFeo case, but fair dos to Ryan - it's an intriguing twist, particularly given how it was immediately seized by SCPD.

I'll be curious to know if it's released back to him or retained as evidence.

Can anyone please shed some light on the relevance of the "rag" or pillowcase purportedly found in a trash bin at the scene of the rifle recovery?

Deadguydan: do you mean that you're aware of new evidence that was not produced at trial, or documented with the other evidence with the police at the time? Totally respect your desire to keep private correspondence private, but could you give us a clue if it was utterly missed by police or something??

Edit: I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope that this "discovery" doesn't equip Ronnie with the ammunition for a re/mistrial. Of course no-one should serve time for a crime they didn't commit ... but we KNOW that he did it and he made a full confession asserting the same.

User avatar
Deadguydan
Amityville Addict
Posts: 187

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Deadguydan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:55 pm

I believe Ronnie did it, there has never been a doubt in my mind. What intrigues me is the fact that all of the bodies were found face down in sleeping positions and the neighbors didn't hear the report of the rifle as it was being fired. Ronnie lied A LOT so who really knows the absolute truth?

As far as information available about the bullets CONCLUSIVELY coming from the same weapon, I will quote this...
That is not at all what the reports state, and let me assure you, there are MORE reports that they apparently do not have in their possession.
"They" refers to members of this board that have posted information and reports of the findings. Concerning the reports, or scans of reports I have seen here, where do they come from? Is one of those freedom of information act type things?

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9819
Contact:

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:37 pm

Anarane wrote:Can anyone please shed some light on the relevance of the "rag" or pillowcase purportedly found in a trash bin at the scene of the rifle recovery?
Ronnie put all the evidence he wished to dispose of in pillowcases -- as seen in the Brooklyn storm drain.

The rifle was thrown into the water near the house.

In his book, Ric discoverd the following:
The Lab Report wrote:Item #64 – Piece of rag from trash basket at foot of Coles Avenue, Amityville. Coles Avenue intersects with Ocean Avenue one street to the south of the DeFeo house and ends at the foot of Amityville Creek. At the edge of the water sits a small landing where village residents can sit on a bench and enjoy the view. Since 1974, very little has changed. Behind the bench, near the street, sat a wire mesh trashcan, where the white rag was recovered.
And now Ryan says:
SHATTERED HOPES: THE TRUE STORY OF THE AMITYVILLE MURDERS wrote:NOVEMBER 14, 1974 - SCPD Homicide shoots this picture at Coles Avenue. There is a "rag" in the trashcan. The SCPD took this rag into custody.....WHY?
....WHY. Because it wasn't a "rag.". It was a pillowcase, and SCPD....
However, he never finished the sentence.

I'm not sure why he was making a big deal of this on the weekend the "2nd gun" turned up, as Ronnie could have easily put the rifle in a pillowcase, tossed the rifle, then dumped the pillowcase in the bin.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9819
Contact:

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:49 pm

Facebook fan wrote:Im gonna throw in my 2 cents here.....many are going to say that a .38 caliber and a Marlin .35 are two different bullets. Actually they are the same. My father in law in an avid gun enthusiast and I asked him about this. A Python Colt is a .357 bullet....all three are the same. So it is HIGHLY possible that the one bullet fragment found in Louise DeFeo's body could be from the alledged pistol Butch claims Bobby used. I know the police reports tend to claim they all came from the same weapon BUT the possibility is still there.
SHATTERED HOPES: THE TRUE STORY OF THE AMITYVILLE MURDERS wrote:I believe it's MORE than a possibility. It comes down to the rifling of the individual bullets -- 7 were alike in their forensic qualities, weight, diameter, rifling; one was factually NOT.
:think:

User avatar
TigresMeow
Yo Adrian I luv black caulk
Posts: 1625
Location: Inside my own mind

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by TigresMeow » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:20 pm

I would think the SCPD would take the gun to see if it was used in any crime....not just the DeFeo murders. So I don't think it's that big of a deal that they wouldn't just hand it over. But that is jmo.
If you're gonna kick a tiger in the ass, you better have a plan to deal with it's teeth.

RIP 15

"Have the dogs stopped barking, Clarice?"

User avatar
astonio
Resident
Posts: 942
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by astonio » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:54 pm

Good point, Kat.

This is interesting. Will this be incorporated into the additional installments due out, or would this call for a rewrite and delay the releases of 2 & 3? Is this akin to the 7th body theory, in that this leads nowhere? Or, will this provide enough 'reasonable doubt' at least in the public's eye concerning the murders? I believe this was posted elsewhere (possibly answer included), but how do you tie this to the murders?
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

User avatar
Shawn
Been there, Done that
Posts: 2435

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Shawn » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:05 pm

Maybe Ronnie used two guns. Perhaps that gun was Ronnie's and Ryan actually made somewhat of a discovery :think: . Perhaps Ronnie threw the gun there because it was his, it had a criminal history behind it and he was afraid of getting caught with it....he HAD to know the police would find it ....that was inevitable.

Or maybe the gun has absolutely nothing to do with the DeFeo murders at all......or perhaps that gun was planted. :think: A bit coincidental to say the least.
Any and all comments made by the poster "Shawn" are purely his opinion and do not reflect the opinions of the board owners, administrators or moderators. Also, all postings done by the member "Shawn" are property of "Shawn" and cannot be reproduced in any way shape or form without written permission from the poster known here(@http://www.amityvillefaq.com) as "Shawn". TIA.

User avatar
Deadguydan
Amityville Addict
Posts: 187

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Deadguydan » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:52 am

Shawn wrote:Maybe Ronnie used two guns. Perhaps that gun was Ronnie's and Ryan actually made somewhat of a discovery :think: . Perhaps Ronnie threw the gun there because it was his, it had a criminal history behind it and he was afraid of getting caught with it....he HAD to know the police would find it ....that was inevitable.

Or maybe the gun has absolutely nothing to do with the DeFeo murders at all......or perhaps that gun was planted. :think: A bit coincidental to say the least.
It may or may not have anything to do with the DeFeo murders BUT in my conversation with Ryan he had this to say as well:
Factually speaking, there is a .38 caliber handgun that IS MISSING and has never been recovered. To a logical mind....one has to question where it COULD be and then do the legwork to test the thesis.
Take it for what it is worth. This may prove to be a circular endeavor however I am glad to see that there is research being done on the the theory.

User avatar
Deadguydan
Amityville Addict
Posts: 187

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by Deadguydan » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:53 am

And when I say "it", I mean the remnants of the gun found recently in the Amityville canal.

kathyM
Princess
Posts: 2701

Re: 2nd gun found?

Post by kathyM » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:04 am

Maybe planted? Could be, you just never know. It is very convient. Oh I think there is a second gun and wa la, they find a gun. Kind of like psychic Jackie finding the coin that Ronnie psychically told her where to find.

I am not saying it is a plant definitely, I am just saying it comes down to a trust issue. Ryan has proven not very trustworthy so until there is some proof to tie this gun to the murders or the police reopen this case, which I doubt they would do, I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and say this is an important find.

Maybe this gun will solve some gas station robbery somewhere and a film can be made about that. :)

Post Reply