Kings County Buick

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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msmart112
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Kings County Buick

Post by msmart112 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:52 pm

In Shattered Hopes...Ed Asner says...

"In 1948, Brigante was working for Kings County Buick of Brooklyn, which was one of three dealerships owned by Augustus Southworth."

...while Augustus Southworth was a major shareholder...he did not own Kings County Buick outright.

One of the other owners was Ferdinand Gerhardt...who was also the company president...as well as the registered franchisee.

Then Ryan rambled on and on about an old wiretapping case (a case that had VERY little to do with Michael Brigante)...and he ended the segment with this sentence on the screen...

Tired of the mob's infiltration, the Southworth's sold King County Buick to them

...which is not only gramatically incorrect...but factually incorrect.

The reason that Kings County Buick was sold was because Ferdinand Gerhardt was convicted of drunk driving in 1949...which led to the revocation of his Buick franchise...

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...full article here.

I wonder why Ryan didn't bother offering anything to substantiate his claim that the dealership was sold to the "mob"?

Maybe we were just supposed to take his word as fact because he's the great Ryan Katzenbach?

:roll:

The dealership was sold to Eugene Malise and Richard Anderson in 1950...and renamed Mid County Buick...

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...and Michael Brigante stayed with them as a salesman...

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Mr. Malise and Mr. Anderson worked very hard to make Mid County Buick a success...

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...and here's a great article that details the commitment that Mr. Malise and Mr. Anderson made to the dealership...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... 7-1953.jpg

...yet...in Shattered Hopes...Ryan Katzenbach dismisses all of this hard work and committment with one sentence...by claiming that Mr. Malise and Mr. Anderson were mobsters.

:roll:

So again...where is the proof to back-up that claim?

For that matter...where is the proof to back-up the claim that Mr. Brigante was a mobster?

Ryan recently posted this...
SHATTERED HOPES: THE TRUE STORY OF THE AMITYVILLE MURDERS wrote:?Also....Brigante's ties to organized crime....where has that been presented, and backed up, so thoroughly before? I think we went a tremendous distance in solidifying the story, but, as the filmmaker, this is my own opinion.
...he's actually proud of what he presented?

Other than the wiretapping case...which again...had VERY little to do with Mr. Brigante...all we got was this ridiculous claim from Geraldine...

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... f=9&t=9160

...which...as you can see...was impossible.

Is it really so hard to believe that Mr. Malise and Mr. Anderson were just hard-working men who wanted to be successful?

Is it really so hard to believe that Mr. Brigante was just a hard-working man who wanted to be successful?

:roll:
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scipio-USMC
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by scipio-USMC » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:09 pm

Can you say legend in his own mind.

You will often find that when people are unable to back up their claims with evidence what they do is simply mainain they previously did so.

Ryan fans attack me for my long posts but they are long because I consistently post evidence I don't simply claim I did.

You should ask Diver what he thinks about the news article I am sure he will repsond that he is not at libery to render an opinion until he checks with Ryan. ;)

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bella2005
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by bella2005 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:57 pm

I don't understand where all this mafia stuff is coming from. I know Butch said he thought his family was killed by the mafia but that was just lies from an idiot. Not all Italians are involved with the mafia. Ryan and the others really need to find something else to talk about.

scipio-USMC
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by scipio-USMC » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:36 am

bella2005 wrote:I don't understand where all this mafia stuff is coming from. I know Butch said he thought his family was killed by the mafia but that was just lies from an idiot. Not all Italians are involved with the mafia. Ryan and the others really need to find something else to talk about.
It is coming from Gerladine why do you think they keep her around and choose to believe her wild tales? Mob stories are interesting to many. Instead of just concentraing on the events relevant to the murder they are trying to spice things up with all the mob crap.

Victoria Principles
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:08 am

scipio-USMC wrote:
bella2005 wrote:I don't understand where all this mafia stuff is coming from. I know Butch said he thought his family was killed by the mafia but that was just lies from an idiot. Not all Italians are involved with the mafia. Ryan and the others really need to find something else to talk about.
It is coming from Gerladine why do you think they keep her around and choose to believe her wild tales? Mob stories are interesting to many. Instead of just concentraing on the events relevant to the murder they are trying to spice things up with all the mob crap.

Talk of the DeFeo's ties to the mafia came a long time before Geraldine entered the picture.

scipio-USMC
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by scipio-USMC » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:04 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
scipio-USMC wrote:
bella2005 wrote:I don't understand where all this mafia stuff is coming from. I know Butch said he thought his family was killed by the mafia but that was just lies from an idiot. Not all Italians are involved with the mafia. Ryan and the others really need to find something else to talk about.
It is coming from Gerladine why do you think they keep her around and choose to believe her wild tales? Mob stories are interesting to many. Instead of just concentraing on the events relevant to the murder they are trying to spice things up with all the mob crap.

Talk of the DeFeo's ties to the mafia came a long time before Geraldine entered the picture.
And all the specific stories going into all the worthless made up details that have nothing to do with the case came from Geraldine.

She took the speculation and answered it with what some peopel sought.

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astonio
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by astonio » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:33 pm

This is so, so embarrassing...among the others.

This indicates no research was conducted at all concerning specifically tying the dealership to mob activity as emphatically stated in SH.

I can't keep up.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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Brendan72
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by Brendan72 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:32 am

bella2005 wrote:I don't understand where all this mafia stuff is coming from. I know Butch said he thought his family was killed by the mafia but that was just lies from an idiot. Not all Italians are involved with the mafia. Ryan and the others really need to find something else to talk about.
Because the mafia angle sells, irrespective of whether it has any basis or not.

Before we know it Shattered Hopes will present itself like an episode of The Sopranos.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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msmart112
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by msmart112 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:53 pm

astonio wrote:This is so, so embarrassing...among the others.
Just wait until Part II and Part III are released (if it actually happens)...then it's REALLY going to get embarrassing.
astonio wrote:This indicates no research was conducted at all concerning specifically tying the dealership to mob activity as emphatically stated in SH.
Indeed.

And I wonder why hot-shot researcher Gail Bleckman didn't pick-up on any of this?

Oh yeah...she was too busy researching things that you had already established.

:roll:

Back to the dealership...in SH...Ed Asner said (regarding Michael Brigante)...

"In the late nineteen-fifties, his success in dealership sales and management paid-off when he became a General Motors franchisee, running Brigante-Karl Buick at Coney Island Avenue."

...before it was Brigante-Karl Buick...it was Brigante-Bernhardt Buick.

I wonder why there was no mention of that?

:think:
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Dan the Damned
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by Dan the Damned » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:29 pm

Excellent post. Don't know how I missed it earlier.
msmart112 wrote:...before it was Brigante-Karl Buick...it was Brigante-Bernhardt Buick.
The article at the top mentions a Ferdinand Gerhardt. Is "Bernhardt" a typo, or just a coincidence?

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astonio
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by astonio » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:48 am

msmart112 wrote:
astonio wrote:This is so, so embarrassing...among the others.
Just wait until Part II and Part III are released (if it actually happens)...then it's REALLY going to get embarrassing.
astonio wrote:This indicates no research was conducted at all concerning specifically tying the dealership to mob activity as emphatically stated in SH.
Indeed.

And I wonder why hot-shot researcher Gail Bleckman didn't pick-up on any of this?

Oh yeah...she was too busy researching things that you had already established.

:roll:

Back to the dealership...in SH...Ed Asner said (regarding Michael Brigante)...

"In the late nineteen-fifties, his success in dealership sales and management paid-off when he became a General Motors franchisee, running Brigante-Karl Buick at Coney Island Avenue."

...before it was Brigante-Karl Buick...it was Brigante-Bernhardt Buick.

I wonder why there was no mention of that?

:think:
Hmmm. Hot shot researcher sent on a wild goosechase. Damn. To be this splashy, definitive retrospect of the DeFeo and "SuperProducers" couldn't go to the local library????

:roll: :shock:
Shock & Awe
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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msmart112
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by msmart112 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:The article at the top mentions a Ferdinand Gerhardt. Is "Bernhardt" a typo, or just a coincidence?
Just a coincidence.

It was Ferdinand Gerhardt and Maurice Bernhardt.
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msmart112
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by msmart112 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:52 pm

astonio wrote:Hmmm. Hot shot researcher sent on a wild goosechase. Damn. To be this splashy, definitive retrospect of the DeFeo and "SuperProducers" couldn't go to the local library????

:roll: :shock:
Shock & Awe
Here's another article that the "SuperProducers" could have found if they had bothered to do any real (and relevant) research...published in the November 23, 1949 edition of The New York Times...

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...but instead...Ryan Katzenbach and his team went with this ridiculous (and unsubstantiated) claim...

Tired of the mob's infiltration, the Southworth's sold King County Buick to them

:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Victoria Principles
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:57 am

bella2005 wrote:I don't understand where all this mafia stuff is coming from. I know Butch said he thought his family was killed by the mafia but that was just lies from an idiot. Not all Italians are involved with the mafia. Ryan and the others really need to find something else to talk about.
The mafia stuff came about because they found out Sr's Uncle was arrested, but not convicted several times for mob related activities. Police noticed one of the grandfathers calling a phone number the night of the murder. The police took down the number and ran it, turned out to be the mobster brother of Rocco DeFeo. One of the reasons why the police called in the Organized Crime Unit the night of the murders.

Victoria Principles
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by Victoria Principles » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:46 am

Can any of the sleuths here find any of the historical deed transfers of the property where the dealership is located? There was things on the internet a few years back that the dealership was seized by the Feds from somewhere between 75 to the early 80s. A property search history could put to rest this rumor.

Tried it myself through here yesterday without find anything.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/jump/acris.shtml

kathyM
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by kathyM » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:52 am

I am not sure how the phone call ties the family to the mob. That was his brother he was calling and wouldnt that make sense that he would call his brother to let him know about the murders of the family? Because the brother was mob doesnt mean the rest of the family was.

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astonio
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by astonio » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:39 am

Kathy...very good point. Rocco WOULD have called his brother about the murders and not anything more; especially when you consider Rocco JUST learned of the murders. What, was he calling his brother to retaliate or pump him for information when nothing was determined that soon into the investigation? I don't get why the mafia/mob continues to be brought up in the murders.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

scipio-USMC
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Re: Kings County Buick

Post by scipio-USMC » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:20 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:Can any of the sleuths here find any of the historical deed transfers of the property where the dealership is located? There was things on the internet a few years back that the dealership was seized by the Feds from somewhere between 75 to the early 80s. A property search history could put to rest this rumor.

Tried it myself through here yesterday without find anything.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/jump/acris.shtml
Some claim on the internet now there is a reliable source. You are going to have to pay the government if you want copies of the deeds on the propery. At any rate it will be a complete waste of time because until 1984 civil forfeiture of real property (21 USC 881(7)) was not part of the federal code and RICO forfeiture (18 USC 1963(a)(3)) required a criminal conviction. Such convictions are obviously nonexistent. The business was sold prior to 1984 and had it been seized subsequently for housing a drug operation there would be articles on it. There are none because it never happened.

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