Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics

Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby astonio » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:35 am

Wow. What’s left? Because here’s the score SO far…

William (Billy) Davidge debunked here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9276
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9278

Geraldine Gates debunked here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9255
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8008
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9019
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9254
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9249
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4648
(and many, many more threads…)

The Brigante/Mafia angle is debunked here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9220

The “smoking” 2nd gun is debunked here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10475
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9243
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9225
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9137

The rag/pillowcase debunked here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9221

Shattered Hopes (which by now, clearly indicative of Ryan’s project to date; aptly titled) debunked here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1771
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9261
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9265
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9260
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9250
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9251

I could honestly continue, but this is humiliating. What’s left for ol’ boy? What a waste of a decade? What a huge loss in $$$? What a blow to one’s ego? What’s left of any sort of credibility? How can one hold the claim they're an "investigative" "journalist" since the first shot out of the gate is an epic FAIL??

If I were him, I wouldn’t have too much to say either. Maybe deleting challenging FB comments he’s unable to ever answer is all he’s got left?
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby Dan the Damned » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:05 am

Very good. I was thinking of making a thread like this, since a lot of stuff is scattered around. :clap:
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby astonio » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:29 am

Yeah. We need a running index. I can't keep up. :breakdance:
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby BooshaGirl » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:43 pm

Astonio, that's incredible..thanks for putting that all together.

It's a shame Ryan just didn't do something like "mythbusters" with his research (or lack thereof) or even put in small print that these findings are based on his OPINIONS, the opninions of people who MET Ronnie (regardless of when) and not FACT. He could have and SHOULD have presented BOTH sides instead of lying to ... to...WHAT? To bolster his own ego? To make the SCPD look foolish? Hell, maybe they DID beat the crap out of Ronnie. NY cops (especially back then) got away with beating the crap out of people. However, investigation and comparing existing photographs (easy-peasy)has PROVEN the cops did not bloody up Ronnie after he was made the primary "suspect". Sure, it sucks when you really spend a lot of money and time on something -- to have "amateur detectives" blow you out of the proverbial water, but sometimes even "armchair detectives" can be your alli. Also, if you're spending that kind of time and money, you should at LEAST investigate and CONSIDER the opposing viewpoint which is more SOLID than your own "smoking gun" pipe dream.

Like the JFK conspiracy theorists, this Ryan cat just goes WAY overboard. He might have found a little tidbit...a tidbit that could lead to a doubt here or there...it's where he GOES with these "tidbits" that is so infurating.

But you're right. He's reduced to CENSORSHIP when someone debunks him on his site instead of admitting he screwed up...big time...and that SOME PEOPLE may know more about this case than he. Main reason I don't go on his site. He'd just delete my posts, anyway--and I don't want to be bothered if he won't even consider better evidence than I have. Sighhh.

That's why I can't stand James Cameron, either. I saw him on a Titanic special. He spoke as if HE HIMSELF...the GREAT JAMES CAMERON built the ship. He talked of 'Jack and Rose" *gag* as if they were REAL people. He was even trying to tell the captain of the submersible how to do his job. I can't stand that egomaniac. However, at least HE is successful and has the RIGHT to be douchenozzle. Cameron did extensive research, too--and got the ship pretty much "dead on" for his film. Take a lesson from THAT jerk, Ryan. You can still act like a douchebag big shot--but you have to EARN the right to be a douchenozzle....by doing REAL investigation, even if it hurts your precious ego to discover you were *gasp* WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby astonio » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:52 pm

Think of that 'special' kid in preschool. The one with the ball that has the different shapes on all sides. Next to the little kid, are the yellow-colored pegs, shaped as their entries on the ball. The kid notices the circular opening and grabs the squared peg. He tests it, may have become distracted momentarily, but returns to his project...determined to fit that square into a circle....instead of returning to the pile of shapes and 1)trying a different peg or 2)actually locating the circular peg. It would fit easy and the child could continue on. Instead, the kid continues in vain to get that square in there. Blocking out the advice of his teachers and classmates that he's doing it all wrong. Rather than feel wrong, re-attempt and eventually become successful, Ryan IS that kid! Still holding that square peg. Still obstinate. Continually wrong.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby BooshaGirl » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:07 pm

GREAT analogy! :dance:
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby Howard64 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:36 pm

Nicely Done Sto:)
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the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby VintageBoy91 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:38 pm

Well done "astonio"! :)
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Re: Shattered Hopes - utterly debunked?

Postby Shawn » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:32 pm

Well done Astonio!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:


Boosh:
douchenozzle


That made me laff out loud! :D
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Tim » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:56 am

OMG Boosha, you've got me rolling....the hottie pics are better than staring @ freeway signs! I miss them already!! :love:
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Jacobmarley1 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:57 pm

I don't think Ryan did his project so much to "get the truth out there," but to "have a career." I don't, for one minute, believe that Ryan believes what he does "for a living" is ethical. He's a movie-maker, and movie-makers are out for two things: a) money; b) recognition, so they can make more money. Truth is the least of it.

Of course, Ryan didn't count on people like us who actually CARE about this case. He counted on the gullible public to just eat the junk he dishes out, and accept it as fact. Which, in light of the "computer age," doesn't make Ryan very bright.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby BooshaGirl » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:45 am

Tim wrote:OMG Boosha, you've got me rolling....the hottie pics are better than staring @ freeway signs! I miss them already!! :love:



Tim--I'm so flattered. Really--it takes me 25 tries to get a halfway decent photo. I'm not 25 anymore, after all (but even THEN, I wasn't photogenic...but THANK YOU!) I think the next photo I use as my avatar will be me with a 103 fever a few months ago. EEEEYYYYUUUUUCKKKK! I had pneumonia and was just a big blob of bloated goo with slits for eyes. You'll BEG me to take THAT one down! Hahahaha.

Anyway, good job to Astonio once again.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby BooshaGirl » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:47 am

Jacobmarley1 wrote:I don't think Ryan did his project so much to "get the truth out there," but to "have a career." I don't, for one minute, believe that Ryan believes what he does "for a living" is ethical. He's a movie-maker, and movie-makers are out for two things: a) money; b) recognition, so they can make more money. Truth is the least of it.

Of course, Ryan didn't count on people like us who actually CARE about this case. He counted on the gullible public to just eat the junk he dishes out, and accept it as fact. Which, in light of the "computer age," doesn't make Ryan very bright.



ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby leathermonkey » Sat May 26, 2012 3:03 pm

Thanks for putting together those links!
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Shawn » Sat May 26, 2012 7:11 pm

leathermonkey wrote:Thanks for putting together those links!


This place is great, isn't it?

LM, it has been ages. How are you doing??? I've missed your posts. We used to have so much fun here in our Thursday chats and Silky swinging from chandeliers!! And the realization that Keenan is not Albert. Or something like that. ;)
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby leathermonkey » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:06 pm

Hey Thanks! Yeah, its been awhile. I'm more of a reader these days on forums. Ill post more often again!
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Tima3939 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:03 pm

I bought Geraldine's story until I talked to her son..............Guess I'm gullible. :roll:
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Brendan72 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:56 am

Okay folks, this is sort of off topic ... but not really:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/08/09/158510648/publisher-pulls-controversial-thomas-jefferson-book-citing-loss-of-confidence

Basically an author who was about to have a revisionist historical book on Thomas Jefferson, has had the book pulled by the publisher intending to publish it, because the historical elements in the book made claim by the author can not be fully verified. Which is something you need to do (obviously) when writing a factual book. Historians tend to frown on unverified claims, since history has to be based on fact, not opinion.

Interesting commentary in the article, including:

"Were these matters of opinion? Were they differences of interpretation? But as we got into it, our conclusion was that the criticisms were correct. There were historical details — matters of fact, not matters of opinion, that were not supported at all."


however,

This decision doesn't leave Barton (the author) without a publisher, however. Barton's own organization, WallBuilders, published his previous books.


So it's now off to the last desperate bastion: self-publishing.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby sherbetbizarre » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:07 am

Good find.

The publishing company says it's ceasing publication because it found that "basic truths just were not there."

Thankfully, potential distributors of Shat Hopes found the "basic truths were not there" before getting involved.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Brendan72 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:21 am

Plus reputable publishers like to remain so, rather than sully their image with inaccurate and highly embellished works.

The exception of course, is fiction. However, fiction passing itself off as fact?

And most importantly, there are the legalities.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Blue » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:53 pm

Brendan72 wrote:...
And most importantly, there are the legalities.


I agree with you and all, but I am curious how this might apply in particular circumstances. What would be the legalities involved in publishing a wholly inaccurate book, marked as non-fiction if everyone that it was about was long dead? I keep hearing "you can't defame the dead" and in a legal sense I understand that, since "defamation" of that nature typically involves financial loss or damage to a reputation resulting in impediment of financial gain, and of course dead people have no use for money or fame.

I understand that no self respecting publisher is going to sign off on a non-fiction book full of lies because their own reputation would be at stake. But what legalities might be considered in this decision?
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