Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics

Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby sherbetbizarre » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:03 pm

RowdyRodimus wrote: Are those the same documentaries that are in the Amityville Horror Box Set?

No! Those are good!
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby kblur77 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:32 pm

You can watch all three of them on Vimeo for a couple of bucks a piece if you like.

Sounds like you got a collectors item there! I got a butcher cover on vinyl too, was a reissue a few years ago. Also the cd came out last year and has the pullover as well.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby RowdyRodimus » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:52 am

kblur77 wrote:You can watch all three of them on Vimeo for a couple of bucks a piece if you like.

Sounds like you got a collectors item there! I got a butcher cover on vinyl too, was a reissue a few years ago. Also the cd came out last year and has the pullover as well.


My pride and joy (even though it's not really super valuable, but because it's my favorite band and they only issued this version for a short time) is a sealed copy of KISS' self titled debut album but without the song "Kissin' Time" that they added a few months after it debuted for kissing contests Casablanca Records were holding as promotions and a single from a band I don't like but is rare as f**k, Nirvana's "Pennyroyal Tea" with "I Hate Myself and Want to Die" on the B-side ("What's a B-Side?" asks everyone born after 1992 lol) It was released a few days after Cobain used Shotgun Mouthwash and they were recalling them as fast as they could. I figured they would so I had my cousin who managed a Tower Records at the time to make sure to get one for me and my friend, there's one on eBay right now for $1,100, so I think I need to find a music collector and sell my copy, it's still in it's shrinkwrap whereas the one for $1,100 is opened and used. Even if I can just get a few hundred off it, it'll still be a hell of a return on my original $2.00 investment in 1994 lol
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby kblur77 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:22 pm

RowdyRodimus wrote:
kblur77 wrote:You can watch all three of them on Vimeo for a couple of bucks a piece if you like.

Sounds like you got a collectors item there! I got a butcher cover on vinyl too, was a reissue a few years ago. Also the cd came out last year and has the pullover as well.


My pride and joy (even though it's not really super valuable, but because it's my favorite band and they only issued this version for a short time) is a sealed copy of KISS' self titled debut album but without the song "Kissin' Time" that they added a few months after it debuted for kissing contests Casablanca Records were holding as promotions and a single from a band I don't like but is rare as f**k, Nirvana's "Pennyroyal Tea" with "I Hate Myself and Want to Die" on the B-side ("What's a B-Side?" asks everyone born after 1992 lol) It was released a few days after Cobain used Shotgun Mouthwash and they were recalling them as fast as they could. I figured they would so I had my cousin who managed a Tower Records at the time to make sure to get one for me and my friend, there's one on eBay right now for $1,100, so I think I need to find a music collector and sell my copy, it's still in it's shrinkwrap whereas the one for $1,100 is opened and used. Even if I can just get a few hundred off it, it'll still be a hell of a return on my original $2.00 investment in 1994 lol


You get any of their new vinyl releases? I want to buy Kiss Alive II but not for fifty bucks! Want to get Dynasty too just for the pic on the label they did that was set up to look like the inside fold of The Beatles Love Songs record.

My former band member met Ace and Peter years ago.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby jimmysmokes » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:31 am

kiss did have a great guitar player when they got Vinnie Vincent. i'll give them that.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby RowdyRodimus » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:53 pm

Oh hell yeah, Vinnie is an awesome guitarist, it's just too bad that as good of a guitar player he is he's just as bad of a person. One of the reasons he got fired from KISS was that Gene and Paul found out that after shows, he would take brand new guitars (straight from the shipping containers pretty much) that were given to him by Jackson Guitars because of his endorsement deal and pass them off as his "favorite" guitar and the one he used during the Creatures of the Night and Lick It Up sessions and tours to fans and sell them at a ridiculous price. Gene and Paul didn't have a problem with him selling them but the lying to the fans and ripping them off pissed them off. So that and other issues caused them to fire him. In all honesty it actually worked out great for everyone because not only did KISS continue with Mark St. John (another great guitarist who unfortunately only appeared on one album, Animalize, because of arthritis in his hands) and then Bruce kulick (whose brother Bob was actually their second choice to be part of the original lineup and who played on a few songs Ace didn't appear on in some early songs and Paul's solo album) who was probably the most "Ace" like player they had after the breakup but we also got The Vinnie Vincent Invasion which after Vinnie pissing off a few of his band members led to Slaughter. I know it's not "cool" to like bands like Slaughter now, but back in the day they were white hot (I still love the band, I apologize for nothing).

But with that said, Vinnie wasn't really a good fit for KISS. To be fair, he was part of the reason they went with a harder sound with "Creatures of the Night" (which criminally undersold at the time of it's release) which is one of my top 10 albums of all time but it wasn't the sound KISS was really comfortable with which is more pop metal than heavy metal which Vinnie excelled at. Sure, part of my feelings on that is that I'm an Ace fanboy but unlike a lot of people in the Ace Vs. Vinnie debate, I admit wholeheartedly that Vinnie was the better guitarist but I just feel that while Vinnie had a better technical grasp and could play a shitload faster, part of what made KISS great in those days was Ace's personality and his easy going "sloppy" relaxed playing just gave off a vibe of a rock star. I can't be the only one that dug it since if you ask 100 guitarists in bands that have come out since the early 80's, probably 60-70 of them will list Ace (along with Hendrix, Clapton and Eddie Van Halen) as one of their big influences. Ace just had a certain sound that made it unmistakably Ace. Vinnie's sound was pretty much the same as a lot of other fast, technical guitar players of the time. In no way am I saying he was bad it's just that he didn't really stand out from the pack.

But really if you look back at their history, KISS has consistently had amazing lead guitarists. I can't think of a single one that most bands wouldn't rather have than who they have at the time.

You know what is really funny in all of this? My least favorite of all of KISS' guitarists is Tommy Thayer (part of that is because of the way they just slapped Ace's makeup design on him which is pretty much a slap in the face to Ace. They did the same thing to Eric Singer with Peter Criss' makeup but at least Eric has a tenure with them prior to them putting the makeup back on but it's still basically saying that Ace and Peter were nothing more than their makeup. Without Ace and Peter they might not have gotten signed to Casablanca and Gene might still be teaching in Queens and Paul might still be driving a cab). However, the funny part is that Tommy is the uncle of one of my best friends, Scott. I met him several times before he joined KISS, the most memorable was when we threw a PPV party to watch Starrcade '97 where Hulk Hogan (then a part of the nWo) took on Sting. The reason it's memorable is that right before I went to Scott's apartment, I had stopped at my comic shop I owned at the time to pick up a set of the McFarlane Toys KISS action figures for his brother-in-law lol I mean, it's funny that I go to a party with a set of figures and at the party is a person who did behind the scenes work with the subject of the figures and who in 5 years took over the position and character of one of them. I had no idea he was going to be there it was just pretty cool.

He's an awesome guy, I just don't feel he should be The Spaceman, you know? He did make me quite a bit of money, though. After the PPV we (me, Scott, Tommy and Scott's brother-in-law) went to my shop and picked up all of my KISS figures (except for two sets in case anyone came in for them, they were hard to find for a while there) and comics (Marvel's from the 70's and the first few issues of Image Comics "Psycho Circus") which he took back with him and had the band sign for me. I sold the figures for $75-$100 each (unsigned they were $15-$25 and they were individually signed; ie: Peter signed his figure, Gene his, etc...), the Image books for $150 and the Marvel issues I didn't even have a price on I just had people make offers, the most I got was $500 for Marvel Super Special #1. Each of them had a Polaroid of them being signed as a COA. From what Tommy told Scott, Gene was the one who suggested sending Polaroids to prove the authenticity and was more than happy to help a comic shop make money and the fact that I was a huge fan was just an awesome bonus to him. That's one of the big reasons I don't like hearing people talk :) flower :) about Gene being "greedy" by wanting to merchandise so much and make as much money as they can. He doesn't want to be the only one making money, he wants EVERYONE to make money and if you have an idea that will make money, he's more than happy to help especially if it doesn't require anything more than a few minutes of his time.

I know that was a long way to get to this point but it still comes back to the beginning about the reason Vinnie was fired (and why I love KISS), I can't think of another band that cares so much about it's fans. it's a cliche and lots of bands say it, but just like most everyone says the St. Louis Cardinals have the best fans in baseball, the KISS Army is just as important to the band as the band is to the KISS Army. (Proud member of both Cardinal Nation and the KISS Army since 1980. That's as far back as I can remember, Christmas of 1979 when I was 3 is my first memory.)
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Buick - 1975 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:27 am

William Davidge was first a boyfriend of Grace Fagan. Dawn always liked him and they began dating after Grace and William stopped seeing each other.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Buick - 1975 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:15 am

Buick - 1975 wrote:William Davidge was first a boyfriend of Grace Fagan. Dawn always liked him and they began dating after Grace and William stopped seeing each other.

I should say though that this is probably not true, as this was said by Barry Springer in the late 80s when asked in a phone interview about Billy Davidge being Dawn's boyfriend.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby msmart112 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:26 pm

Who was the interview conducted by...Geraldine? :roll:
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Buick - 1975 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:00 pm

msmart112 wrote:Who was the interview conducted by...Geraldine? :roll:

Hi, no it wasn't conducted by Geraldine but by a man who was going to write a book about Ronnie and what really happened. I bought a large boxful of files, crime scene photos/negatives, letters from DeFeo (one of which is typed and was to Grace Fagan), copies DeFeo sent of his fan mail and letters from Geraldine. It says a copy of the interview was sent to Barry Springer, so he would have seen it. I just thought I would share some of this stuff on here as it is a shame for it to be sitting around when there are so many people who are interested in this case.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby sherbetbizarre » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:42 pm

Buick - 1975 wrote:Hi, no it wasn't conducted by Geraldine but by a man who was going to write a book about Ronnie and what really happened.

What was his name? Maybe we know him.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Buick - 1975 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:40 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Buick - 1975 wrote:Hi, no it wasn't conducted by Geraldine but by a man who was going to write a book about Ronnie and what really happened.

What was his name? Maybe we know him.

Hi, hope you understand but I don't think it would be a good thing to name this person? I don't know him personally, I just bought a lot of documents from him off the internet for my own interest on this case.
I just thought I would share some of the Things Barry Springer said about Dawn, although he didn't say a great deal about her.
I have 11 handwritten letters from Ronnie DeFeo that are quite interesting if There is an interest? It seems he would have done anything possible to get out of jail, he wanted to find all the people who knew him and were at his trial to say they were encouraged to say certain things about him so he looked insane. I know this is old news, so forgive me for repeating things you all know about, and any mistakes in my comments, I am new to forums. Thanks.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:37 pm

Yeah, the letters would be very interesting, especially if they date from the late 80's when DeFeo was trying to win himself a new trial... The letters didn't help though - he had to fake most of his friends affidavits!
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Brendan72 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:20 am

I don't seem to recall Barry Springer being mentioned in High Hopes, which I read again recently.
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Re: Shattered Hopes - Utterly Debunked?

Postby Buick - 1975 » Sun May 01, 2016 11:29 am

No, it wasn't from High Hopes, this was part of an interview I found from amongst these small amount of files, I bought from a man off of the internet.

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