Shattered Hopes Part II

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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msmart112
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Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:23 am

Just like Part I...Part II is jaw-droppingly bad.

Once again we get horrible audio...sloppy editing...and lots of misinformation.

Below is just one example of how pathetic this "film" is.

At the beginning we see this...
THIS FILM DEPICTS VARIOUS COURTROOM RECREATIONS FROM THE PEOPLE VS. DEFEO.

ALL DIALOGUE IS BASED ON ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTS, AND IS ACCURATE WHERE POSSIBLE. IN SOME INSTANCES, THE DIALOGUE, DUE TO LENGTH, HAS BEEN CONDENSED.
...and near the end...there is a courtroom recreation where Robert Kelske says...

The detective, he comes in there and he says, "One of you two sons a b*tches is gonna confess."

...which is immediately followed by Ric Osuna explaining that Kelske never actually stated that line!

In fact...from Ric Osuna’s book...
Ric Osuna wrote:After a few minutes of recounting his experience, Bobby Kelske said, "He [the detective] came in there, and he said, "One of you two -." Objecting, Sullivan quickly cut off Kelske’s answer. After Bobby Kelske was admonished for not following Justice Stark’s ruling, he was asked again to repeat only what he said to the detectives. Kelske replied, "I told him to go f*ck yourself." If Kelske had been permitted to finish, the jury would have heard him recount what the detective had said to him: "One of you two sons of b*tches are going to confess."
...so if Robert Kelske never stated that line in court...then why did Ryan Katzenbach include it in the film?

:roll:

And if Robert Kelske never stated that line in court...then how did Ric Osuna know what Robert Kelske was about to say?

:roll:

I’ll be updating this review as time permits...but in the meantime...be warned people...this film is a train wreck. It’s so bad that I strongly recommend viewing it using a pinhole in a piece of cardboard.
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kathyM
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by kathyM » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:07 am

I would never waste my money on another part after watching part 1. Ryan proved with that one that he is no filmmaker.

Well, at least you gave him another chance to prove himself. Not me, that dude is a waste of time and energy.

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Shawn
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Shawn » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:37 pm

Screw that. Ryank Katzenbach's credibility went out the window when the doctor slapped him on his ass during his birth. :roll:
Even if his tongue came notarized I still would not believe one flipping word out of his mouth let alone a film by him stating "his truth". :fp:
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Howard64
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Howard64 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:23 am

seems like this part two is an oxy-moron
" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of
the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

lmp10
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by lmp10 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:47 am

Was Robert Kelske a supspect in this case?
And nobody actually knows what is said behind closed doors with the police so it is police they could of said that to him.

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astonio
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:21 am

Oh no. I was afraid of this. Pardon the pun, but my wallet dodged that bullet. The buyer's remorse I'd suffer... :wall:

Man, Ryan....
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

kathyM
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by kathyM » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:05 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:52 am

I will be getting my copy soon.

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msmart112
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:55 am

Ryan Katzenbach wrote:The one thing that remains consistent in all of the stories that he (Ronnie) has ever told about what happened that night, was the involvement of his sister Dawn, which started almost from day one.
This is absolutely false.

Ronnie has given over a DOZEN versions that did NOT involve Dawn.





From the back cover...
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:And we haven't even mentioned the "second gun" which was used in the crime.
...so it's now a FACT that a second gun was used?





Ryan once AGAIN didn't bother to ask those who knew the DeFeo family to confirm that Geraldine had been around prior to the murders.

No surprise there.




Ryan Katzenbach wrote:At around 7:20 PM, Mike Brigante arrives on the scene from Brooklyn along with his son.
This is absolutely false.

Michael Brigante HIMSELF testified that he was still in Brooklyn at 8:00 PM when the police called him.

Also...as much as Ryan likes to ignore it...Angela Brigante also made the trip to Amityville...

Image




Ed Asner wrote:Suffolk Homicide had set-up central command over the crime scene at the home of Rufus and Diane Ireland next door.
That would be Diana Ireland.

Just sayin'.




Ric Osuna wrote:If you talk to residents who knew Bobby Kelske and Butch DeFeo, residents of Amityville, they always had a suspicion that Bobby was involved with the murders.
Who are these residents?





According to SH...at 11:00 PM on November 13, 1974...a neighbor approached Geraldine and informed her of the murders. This neighbor then told Geraldine to turn on Channel Five (which by 11:00 was airing The Best of Groucho). According Geraldine (via TNTDD)...she arrived in Amityville "close to midnight".

So she made the nearly two hour drive in an hour?





From TNTDD...
Ric Osuna and Geraldine Gates wrote:Butch, nevertheless, proceeded into his younger sister’s room. “I immediately was sickened by the sight. It felt like my stomach flipped-flopped a couple of times, and
I just about died,” Butch said. Allison, who had been Butch’s golden girl, lay dead in her bed. She had been shot in the head, and her blood was dripping down onto the white shag rug, staining it red. Believing his brothers had met a similar fate, Butch bypassed their door and headed for Dawn’s room.
...but in SH...Ronnie went into Marc and John's room.

So which is it?





From TNTDD...
Ric Osuna and Geraldine Gates wrote:He entered Dawn’s room and found her laughing, singing, and dancing. “I didn’t know what to do,” Butch said. “She was like a mad woman, carrying on. She then told me she wanted to make a phone call to Billy Davidge to tell him what just happened.” As Dawn picked up the phone to call her boyfriend in Florida, Butch knocked it out of her hand and asked her, “What are you, stupid? What the hell did you take?”
...but in SH...Billy wasn't in Florida yet.

So was Billy in Florida or not?




Ryan Katzenbach wrote:Bobby Kelse drove to Brooklyn with his .38 revolver it is said. And Bobby Kelske went to the home of one Frank Boyde, who was a Brigante Buick dealership employee.
Ric Osuna wrote:According to an affirmation that I had located, a Frank Boyde who had worked with Butch DeFeo at the dealership, had actually melted down a Colt Python.
Then Ed Asner reads the affirmation...and there's even a reencatment showing Kelske giving the gun to Boyde.

If anyone wants to read this obviously fake affirmation...here it is...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... nklyn1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... nklyn2.jpg




Ed Asner wrote:In his interview with Ric Osuna, Butch DeFeo claimed that the Suffolk County homicide detectives beat him and Bobby Kelske for twenty hours until they obtained an eight-page confession statement.
There is nothing about the homicide detectives allegedly beating Bobby Kelse for twenty hours in TNTDD...and Kelske said in court that he was not beaten.

Also...the police never obtained an eight-page confession.




Geraldine Gates wrote:I went to see grandpa, Mike Brigante. Grandpa told me that he needed to talk to me, it was something that was very urgent and very important, and I had to sit down. He had gotten word that this little snip in the DA's office was convinced that Butch did not commit the crimes alone. He had received a phone call from Linn Nonnewitz, a panicked phone call from Linn and Roger, that Detective Rafferty and Detective Harrison had been to her home and were looking for a second gun. They also tried to make the Nonnewitzs confirm that a female who was well acquainted with the children was the accomplice to the crime. Grandpa got wind of this from three different precincts, and he said, "Gerri, you're that female."
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:Butch maintains that it was his sister Dawn that intimidated the kids to stay into their room, but at this point it was really Gerard Sullivan who was looking at Geraldine as being possibly that accomplice.
Geraldine Gates wrote:He (Michael Brigante) told me it was for my benefit that I don't testify at the trial, and he told me that I should never again refer to myself as Mrs. DeFeo, that I had to destroy any and all documentation.
But In TNTDD...this all happened in November of 1974...LONG before Gerard Sullivan became involved in the case...
Ric Osuna and Geraldine Gates wrote:After Butch’s arraignment (November 15, 1974), he was transferred to the Suffolk County Jail. Finally out of the hands of the homicide squad, Geraldine got her first
chance to see her husband since his incarceration. On her way out of the jail, Geraldine met up with Rocco DeFeo and Michael Brigante Sr. She recalled, “Immediately upon seeing me, Mike and Rocco pushed me into a phone booth. They told me I had to be careful and that I had to stop being Butch’s wife. When I asked why, they told me their connections informed them that the cops had realized that it was an impossibility that Butch could have killed everyone alone. They had felt that a female had to have kept the kids quiet, so they were beginning to feel they needed to find an accomplice. Big Mike and Rocco did not want to risk the cops implicating me, so they told me I no longer existed as Butch’s wife.”

Both men, in fact, had a soft spot for Geraldine and her children. Because Shea Marie was barely three months old, they did not want Geraldine to be implicated in the murders.
...and going back to this...
Geraldine Gates wrote:They also tried to make the Nonnewitzs confirm that a female who was well acquanited with the children was the accomplice to the crime.
...this might be the most idiotic thing that Geraldine has ever said....and the fact that Ryan left this in his "film" speaks volumes about him.




Ryan Katzenbach wrote:Augie Degennaro swore out various affirmations for Jacob Siegfried in support of Butch saying that Dawn DeFeo had asked him for drugs, Dawn DeFeo had asked him for a gun, that Dawn DeFeo was definitely up to being a participant in the murder of the family.
Here's a thread that deals with this Augie Degennaro nonsense...

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truthboard ... f=9&t=9156




Ryan Katzenbach wrote:It's also said that Augie Degennaro was very close with mobster Joey Gallo.
Said by whom...Geraldine?

:roll:

Also...Joey Gallo was in prison from the early sixties until 1971...and he passed away in 1972...

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astonio
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:43 am

This sounds worse than Part 1! Misleading narration included. This was a determining factor as to whether I'd buy Part 2.

What is this docu's aim? Is it to create reasonable doubt? Even if the powers that be considered the docu credible, once weighed against record and evidence, wouldn't reasonable doubt have been thrown out the window?

Were any "new" people interviewed or do we get more from the same people from Part 1?

How was the acting in the recreations? Any better?

ugh...
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Dan the Damned » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:12 am

Great rundown, Max! :shock:

Amazing how much crap Ryan gets wrong. He is just so sloppy. And this:
msmart112 wrote:If anyone wants to read this obviously fake affirmation...here it is...
Note to forgers: When trying to fake a document from 1974, don't use an obvious "proportional" computer font. Use a "fixed-width" font that at least somewhat looks as if it could have come from a 1974 typewriter. In fact, here's a good idea -- try to find a font that matches the one used under Jacob Siegfried's signature found at the bottom of the same document. And try to ensure that the text in the document looks aged/photocopied (again, to match the appearance of the type under Jacob's signature). Otherwise a brilliant, young investigative documentarian will immediately realize that your document is a fake.

Oh. Wait a minute... :think:

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Howard64
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Howard64 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:17 am

that does not help his case...
" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of
the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

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msmart112
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:26 pm

Ed Asner wrote:Just four months from trial, Butch DeFeo found himself with no legal counsel, and fleeting hope of ever getting a fair trial.
It was Ronnie's own fault for finding himself with no legal counsel...and even then it was only temporary...as William Weber was later assigned to represent Ronnie.

And Ronnie most definitely got a fair trial.





This is what Judge Stark had to say about "judge shopping"...
Judge Stark wrote:Judge shopping, at least in my mind, meant that that's what he (Sullivan) was hoping for, that I would end-up getting the trial. Now, he did not go to Judge Cromarty, who was the administrative judge, and said, "Judge, we want Stark."
...and here is what Ryan followed with...
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:Gerard Sullivan, in High Hopes, literally in this book, says that the day after Judge Signorelli recused himself they went and they met with Judge Cromarty, the administrative judge, to get Stark. So, for anyone to say that weren't judge shopping and trying to get Judge Stark, when you weigh Sullivan's words against it, it's absolute bullsh*t.
...Stark wasn't saying that Sullivan wasn't trying to get him...nor was Stark saying that Sullivan didn't go to Judge Cromarty. Stark was simply saying that while Sullivan may have WANTED him to be assigned the case...he didn't outright request him. And sure enough...if you read High Hopes...you will read Sullivan explaining that it was Judge Cromarty who first mentioned Stark.

For those of you planning on seeing this disaster...Ryan's "performance" here is one of the more humorous moments in the "film".





Ed Asner wrote:Bill Weber had his own legal problems at this point.
This is followed my Michael Race and Ryan Katzenbach talking about an incident where William Weber was arrested for having a loaded gun in his car. This comes at the point in the "film" where Ryan is talking about the pre-trial hearing...and Ryan tries to make it sound like the SCPD was trying to intimidate Weber due to things that were happening with Ronnie's case.

But in the book Judicial Carousel...written by a former secretary of Weber's...we get this...
Betty Carrington wrote:Sometime after the DeFeo trial, Bill was arrested for possession of a weapon - a revolver.
:roll:





During a pre-trial hearing reenactment...the actor portraying Gerard Sullivan said...
We concur there might have been an accomplice, maybe even more than one. But your honor, there is nothing inconsistent with the defendant’s guilt. Fact is, there is no accomplice present, there is no accomplice under arrest. Even if there was, it would not diminish the case we have built against Mr. DeFeo. An accomplice does not diminish his criminal liability.
Here are some of the hearing transcripts so that you can read what Gerard Sullivan REALLY said (as opposed to Ryan Katzenbach's version)...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... _small.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... _small.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... _small.jpg






During a reenactment of Gerard Sullivan's opening statement...the actor portraying Gerard Sullivan said...
Mr. DeFeo then went upstairs after 3:00 AM, points the death weapon at his father's back, and fired. The first shot does not kill his father. So only after Ronald DeFeo Sr. got out of bed, did his son shoot him again and place him back in bed where he would be found by police.
...and then Ryan adds...
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:When Sullivan made that opening statement to the jury, and stated that Big Ronnie DeFeo had been placed back into bed, one has to wonder what his basis for making that statement was.
...Gerard Sullivan did NOT state that Mr. DeFeo had been shot out of bed...nor did Gerard Sullivan state that Mr. DeFeo had been placed back in bed.

Here's is what Gerard Sullivan really said...
Gerard Sullivan wrote:Members of the jury, the People will prove that sometime after 3 a.m. on November 13th, Ronald DeFeo pointed the death weapon at his father’s back and fired it. It took Ronald DeFeo Jr., two shots to kill his father. One of these entered his father’s back and passed through his body, destroying his heart. And there is no definitive proof as to where precisely Ronald DeFeo Sr., was at that point in time when his son fired the first shot into his back. That bullet, you may infer, stopped inside his body.

Testimony by the deputy chief medical examiner will show that the trajectories of each bullet which entered his back were different. The difference in the angles of these bullets entering the body, combined with certain other evidence in the case that you will learn about, may cause you to conclude that this defendant first shot his father after he had gotten up from his bed, and thereafter the body of his father was placed back into bed to be found later by police. You will find proof tending to show that the body was pushed or moved along this bed after DeFeo Sr., was shot.
...so we have a clear case of Ryan Katzenbach twisting words to support his ridiculous theories.

How pathetic.

:roll:
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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:41 pm

Even when these errors are pointed out, he still insists he's right. He's either stupid or a shameless liar.

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msmart112
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:43 pm

Here is Ryan Katzenbach discussing a report filed by Detective Jack Shirvell...
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:In his report it is stated that there is a blood stain 36 inches off the floor, on the door frame of the master bedroom door. But what is really interesting about this, this particular passage is bracketed, and the word omit is written over the top of it, which is very curious as to why this particular detail, so definitevely defined as a blood stain, would be omitted.
...and here is the portion of Detective Shirvell's report that Ryan was referencing...

Image

...factually...it was NOT stated that there was a blood stain...but rather...that there was a stain that APPEARED to have been blood.

Big difference.

And just how does "appeared to be blood" become "so definitively defined as a blood stain"?

:roll:
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natalie83
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by natalie83 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:40 am

sherbetbizarre wrote: He's either stupid or a shameless liar.
unfortunately, this could be the truth! :-|

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Brendan72
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Brendan72 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:08 am

I don't think I'm going to bother with this piece of fiction ...
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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:55 am

msmart112 wrote:...factually...it was NOT stated that there was a blood stain...but rather...that there was a stain that APPEARED to have been blood.

Big difference.

And just how does "appeared to be blood" become "so definitively defined as a blood stain"?

:roll:
So much for the shocking revelations we were promised... More conjecture dressed up as "fact" it seems, and sold to the gullible for $20 a pop :doh:

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Brendan72
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Brendan72 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:33 am

Image]
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"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:40 am

So when do we get to the brilliant stuff that will shut us up for good? Parts 1 & 2 are the same stupid bullsh*t that we expected. Now Ryan will undoubtedly promise the moon in Part 3. And mark my words -- after Part 3 is released, he will refuse to talk about Amityville, saying, "I'm too busy on my current project to rehash my findings on the DeFeo case -- just watch my films -- it's all in there."

It's a classic cop-out. Before the films come out he refuses to answer the tough questions by either saying how "it's unfair to criticize anything he says before we've seen the film" or "your questions will be addressed in the film." And then after the film comes out he'll refuse to answer questions because he has moved on from Amityville to a totally different subject matter. :roll:

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astonio
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:18 am

I think the only ones of the public to question his findings are us. Everyone else, they're brand new to the scene and abstain from the grain of salt and wouldn't be able to ask him specific direct questions.

Is this documentary a success? Magic 8 ball says.... :puke:
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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