Shattered Hopes Part II

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
scipio-USMC
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:16 pm

He going to run from his failure pretending he found the truth and presented absolute proof of the truth but he aoocmplished no such thing, in the end he was a snake oil salesman.

Just take this example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbABnP3Wp4U

1) Nonnewitze doesn't say they ever even got to meet Weber. He claims they went to the office and walked out empty handed merely.

2) He and his wife say they met Geraldine in 1985 or 1986. By definition this had to occur 1985 or later.

How does this establish she was around prior to 1985?

Even if the claim were that they did meet Weber how would it establish she met Weber prior to 1985?

Whether she met him 1985 or later means nothing. His testimony was that he didn't hea rof her or meet her while Ron's attorney.

Geraldine made up tales of meeting him to prepare his defense prior to trial and even being present at the time he met the Lutzes.

That is the relevant period and this video doesn't speak to it at all.

In fact, if Nonnewitz were pressed and he recollected that he claimed not to know Gerladine that would tend to confirm his account. We don't get any such kind of questioning because it would kill the false doubt he is trying to spin.

In the end the entire trilogy is formed like this with nonevidence trying to cast doubt.

Far from establishing what happened it tries to cast doubt on the official story and then suggests the crap he and Geraldine came up is the truth without providing reliable evidence to back up any of it. He makes unsubstantiated charges nothing more. Most of these charges are rebutted by the actual evidence mind you.

Zealous255
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Zealous255 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:47 pm

Does he show any crime scene photos in this one? I know he did in the last one...

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astonio
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:50 am

...and I FINALLY made it through the entire DVD. SEVERAL questions abound...but I left my notebook elsewhere...

- Starting off 'positive': Ryan did a good job of bringing to light an easy faux pas made by the police department concerning the rifle boxes "found" in Butch's room. Rather, the time they were found. High Hopes does state Det. Shirvell did a final sweep of the house about 2:30 AM and 'discovered' the boxes. BUT, Ryan points out the photographer's time log for his photos and these photos were taken at 9:40 PM. Hence, the SPD knew of the boxes sooner than reported.

- I didn't get the impassioned display exhibited from Ryan concerning judge shopping. It seemed like a personal affront on anything reported from High Hopes. Very minor detail pointed out in Part 2, but still.

- Ryan pointed out how Weber cold busted one of the detectives on the stand lying they were never at the DeFeo home on the 13th. Greguski logged this particular detective arriving at 8:50 PM. Now, I'm not one to go for this incredible 'cover-up' conspiracy; HOWEVER, if you're able to catch one in a lie...there's bound to be other "lies" and I can't understand why the detective lied to begin with??



At the 'day job', so I can only get these out for now.

See ya soon...!
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

scipio-USMC
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 am

astonio wrote:...and I FINALLY made it through the entire DVD. SEVERAL questions abound...but I left my notebook elsewhere...

- Starting off 'positive': Ryan did a good job of bringing to light an easy faux pas made by the police department concerning the rifle boxes "found" in Butch's room. Rather, the time they were found. High Hopes does state Det. Shirvell did a final sweep of the house about 2:30 AM and 'discovered' the boxes. BUT, Ryan points out the photographer's time log for his photos and these photos were taken at 9:40 PM. Hence, the SPD knew of the boxes sooner than reported.
The fact the photographer saw them at that time doesn't prove the other detectives knew about the boxes at this time. When you have a large number of people investigating some will notice things others do not. Only after they all get together afterwards and share all of their information will it all come together. At best what was caught was Shirvell bragging about finding something that even if he didn't recover at the time, they would have reurned later to retrieve because the photos would have clued them in that they existed.
astonio wrote:I didn't get the impassioned display exhibited from Ryan concerning judge shopping. It seemed like a personal affront on anything reported from High Hopes. Very minor detail pointed out in Part 2, but still.

- Ryan pointed out how Weber cold busted one of the detectives on the stand lying they were never at the DeFeo home on the 13th. Greguski logged this particular detective arriving at 8:50 PM. Now, I'm not one to go for this incredible 'cover-up' conspiracy; HOWEVER, if you're able to catch one in a lie...there's bound to be other "lies" and I can't understand why the detective lied to begin with??

At the 'day job', so I can only get these out for now.

See ya soon...!
It is possible he didn't remember being there because he was not there long. It is also possible that since he was not ther elong or didn't see/do anything of significance he said it so they will let him off the stand so he didn't have to waste his time. I would need to know more about who it is to look into it further. Seems o me something not even worth pointing out though since his supposed lie of being there was inconsequential. If Weber busted him as doing something nefarious that would be different. But Ryan no doubt used this to suggest there was a coverup and planing of evidence etc going on the way he always tries with his smoke and mirrors.

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astonio
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:48 pm

LOL @ Scipio.

He's trying, dear Lord....Ryan is trying. I had to give him credit for the Shirvell deal....simply because I had this discussion with one of our seasoned "pros" here a few years ago. We surmised pretty much the same thing concerning the discovery of the boxes....but we went elsewhere with it. :rotate:
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

scipio-USMC
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:29 pm

astonio wrote:LOL @ Scipio.

He's trying, dear Lord....Ryan is trying. I had to give him credit for the Shirvell deal....simply because I had this discussion with one of our seasoned "pros" here a few years ago. We surmised pretty much the same thing concerning the discovery of the boxes....but we went elsewhere with it. :rotate:
I wouldn't be surprised if this board is where he first learned about it. He has a habit of trying to take credit for the obvious. Kind of like police officers trying to take credit for discoveries they should have found and no doubt others were aware of even before they "discovered" it, but everyone wants a piece of the spotlight and not unlike a prosecutor trying to make himself out to be some master manipulator when in fact he did nothing that someone else in place would not have done as well and trying to get accolades for doing an ordinary job.

By the way Ryan makes such a big deal out of the issue of the "judge shopping" to try to make it seem like Ronnie was railroaded and cheated out of a fair trial. That is what he argues and one of the things he puts up as evidence is the judge issue. Ignored is that someone else not him decided who the judge would be and furthermore there is no evidence the prior judge was rendering less favorable rulings to the prosecution anyway. The rulings i have seen were all standard textbook. The prior judge for instance is the one who denied much of the discovery that Katzenbach/Osuna incorrectly claim the defense was entitled to. They conveniently cited the existing law as opposed to the law in effect at the time of the trial. Whether that was on purpose or out of extreme ignorance is unclear...

kathyM
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by kathyM » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:55 pm

Lol! Yeah, he probably did some of his research here! :lol: :lol:

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astonio
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:13 am

Ok...back again.

In Part 2, I noticed very often Ryan would lead with his assertion of investigative findings to only have his scene followed by an expert who completely counters what Ryan stated moments before. You will see this in explanation of Dawn's autopsy findings where IDK how Ryan would have known, but Ryan states the M.E. was incorrect in finding Dawn was fired upon at close range of up to two feet. Ryan says she was fired on four feet away. He based this on the GSR found on her nightgown (but doesn't state where the GSR was on the nightgown) and that no stippling was found on her blanket. This is trivial in the scheme of Part 2's entirety, but it runs frequent throughout the flick.

Those FBI agents...lawd. They offer absolutely NOTHING to the facts of the case. They mainly express their opinions of the commission of the crime based on the Clutter family murders from In Cold Blood. The both of them are a complete waste of air time on the screen. I don't even find them bringing any meat to the table, per se. Just gabba gabba STFU already.

A big whammy is Ryan's assertion Mr. DeFeo was shot elsewhere and placed back in bed. Sigh. Ok. The trajectory of the bullets that pierced his back coincide with Mr. DeFeo laying prone when shot. It's clear from the crime scene photo as well as the autopsy report. On top of which, look at the placement of Mr. DeFeo's arms...especially when the investigators turned him over. He was resting on them in what appears to be a sleeping position. Now, if anything, I believe Mr. DeFeo could have awakened when Ronnie opened the door and if he cocked the rifle in the quiet of the bedroom and maybe Mr. DeFeo awoke and began to stir. From here is where my beliefs differ and although my beliefs, they're subjective in that, I do not believe Ronnie shot both parents twice at the same time. I feel he fired on each once and returned after to fire again into each of them. This explains the difference in the trajectory of Mr. DeFeo's wounds...one gunshot wound in the center of his back and the other on the lower left side. The shooter...meaning Ronnie...clearly did not stand in the same position he stood when he initially wounded his parents.

A huge edit needed would be the removal of Marc's "friend". Even when I rewind, dude also says nothing of value. "I can't remember who came up and told me, my mother or my father..." Maybe this is poor editing and maybe he did say something of worth, but what made it into the flick....phew, forget about it.

Now his mother did provide a closer insight concerning the services and this part was believable to me. Mr. Nonnewitz...another request to remove him from the flick, but then again, his commentary could be the result of cutting pertinent information and leaving it on the cutting room/garage/basement/den floor.

Didn't care for Gozaloff too much. Liked him in previous docus, but here he seemed to be hamming it up some for the camera. And when Ryan asks him if he believed Kelske was a suspect and Gozaloff responds, turn this thing off, we never even get a summation of his response....purposely, I believe. Clearly Kelske was not involved in this crime and to say he was without evidence is just wrong. Which brings me to the confusing part of the accounts Geraldine says was told to her by Ronnie about the murders.

We have Kelske shooting Mrs. DeFeo in the most whackest scene of the flick. That wasn't set up right at all. He fires because he heard her moaning, Ronnie says something to the effect of, you shot my :) love :) mother and then the actor portraying Kelske looks at Butch, drops the gun, steps over Mr. DeFeo, runs down the stairs and apparently out the door. So, this leaves Mr. DeFeo bleeding out onto the floor. The account then has Ronnie telling Dawn he'd be back and he leaves to find Kelske (and as a side mention, Augie somewhere in here disappears). Geraldine then states Ronnie says he drove around Amityville for 30 minutes and returns to Ocean Avenue to find Kelske driving up Ocean Ave and somehow convinces him to come back to the house. When in the doorway, Kelske tells Ronnie he isn't going back upstairs or into the house which is a veiled reference something happened to the kids, which the film depicts Ronnie checking Allison and the boys' rooms in horror. Ok. All this time, Mr. DeFeo is still on the floor...bleeding out. I remind you of Mr. DeFeo because the film shows his second GSW would have had to be in the chest, which we know is not the case. So...when did they get him off the floor in all of this because the next scene has Ronnie running up stairs, fighting with Dawn, throwing her onto the bed and shooting her (also counters the M.E.'s findings completely). And if they DID drag him on the floor to the bed, where are the carpet fibers NOT found on his chest during the autopsy? Where is the blood stains on the carpet if he bled out up to 30 minutes?

Another not clear scene would be that of Geraldine racing from NJ to Amityville. Now here...it's what was NOT mentioned. She explains having to fight through the crowd of people she doesn't know and Ryan states she arrived as they were still bringing the bodies out and not knowing if her husband was in one of those body bags, but she sees Big Mike and he was the tower of strength that she had to reach. Ok. Then why was there no mention of Mr. Brigante assuring Geraldine Ronnie was not hurt from the scene of seeing body bags taken from the house? Wouldn't that be the natural order of things if you thought your spouse "could" be one of the victims? Wouldn't your first question to Mr. Brigante be: Where's Ronnie? But the film never takes us there. Huge ommission or spotty story telling? You be the judge.

Sigh...there's more, so bear with me. I have to do this in doses....smh.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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quotestheraven
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by quotestheraven » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:54 pm

OMG- Geraldine is in the 2nd one? I would have hoped they'd dumped her by now. I mean, even if I didn't read this board, her story sounds like so much b.s. If she and Ronnie were married in 1974 - then where was she in 1974? Why wasn't she called at trial? Why didn't she talk to the police? She's so full of it it's a wonder she doesn't stink.

In part I Ric Osuna brags about how hard it is/was to get some of the crime scene pictures. Is that true? Theoretically, could one of us write to or go up to Amityville, say we're doing research, and get this information?
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kathyM
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by kathyM » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:47 pm

What cracks me up is that some people actually believe her. :roll:

Hmm, good question QuotestheRaven about being able to get all the info.

litown
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by litown » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:59 pm

quotestheraven wrote:
In part I Ric Osuna brags about how hard it is/was to get some of the crime scene pictures. Is that true? Theoretically, could one of us write to or go up to Amityville, say we're doing research, and get this information?
The way I understand New York law, IMO the answer would be yes. http://www.dos.ny.gov/coog/foil2.html

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quotestheraven
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by quotestheraven » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:04 pm

So, who's gonna write/go to Suffolk county and ask for all this stuff?
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KDSPhantom
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by KDSPhantom » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:49 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:Even when these errors are pointed out, he still insists he's right. He's either stupid or a shameless liar.

can't he be both?

I know this post was years ago and that I am late to the train wreck
but I can not help but be offended that this Ryan guy and his "buddy" Ric are trying to make money from the tragedy of Ronnie murdering his family.

clearly murdering his family, alone without help without motive.

from reading around this forum, lots of posts here and there
reading things like this Ric dude putting in his book that Dawn helped or Dawn did this...
then seeing that this Ryan dude is trying to put a movie together further spreading these lies...

is exactly like reading Ronnie Defeo's parole hearings where he tries to blame her, Dawn for killing the younger children
and I for one can not help think "have you no shame, this long after"
only to come to realize that Ronnie does not, and never did.

but here we are just about 40 years out from the crime and these 2 shameless and clearly stupid people are trying to make a buck by rewriting true actual history
and making this beautiful young lady into something that she is not a murderer.
As the only murderer in this whole story is ronnie defeo

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:31 pm

It will be interesting to see if any mainstream press pick up on it when he has all 4 parts complete... I would doubt it though. Although he'll probably try and get some publicity on the back of the DeFeo interview (telling the unique TRUTH on-camera for at least the fourth time)

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