Shattered Hopes Part II

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3108

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:58 am

astonio wrote:I think the only ones of the public to question his findings are us. Everyone else, they're brand new to the scene and abstain from the grain of salt and wouldn't be able to ask him specific direct questions.

Is this documentary a success? Magic 8 ball says.... :puke:
Most of the media has been focused on that other Amityville documentary. I think the one places I've seen talking about Shattered Hopes is Ryan's Facebook page and US.

User avatar
Dan the Damned
Lost Soul
Posts: 11893

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:05 pm

That's because we love Ryan more than Eric. If Eric would sue us, then we'd talk more about his film. ;)

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1934

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:12 pm

Ryan Katzenbach wrote:In December of 1974, Item #26, the blood stain from the master bedroom door frame was tested, and supposedly it failed to reveal the presence of blood. Interestingly, in September of 1975, Suffolk County returned to a now empty DeFeo house, and tested the spot once again. It is very curious to me why they would test a spot two times if they didn't believe it was a possibility that Big Ronnie DeFeo had actually gotten out of bed and moved.
RyKat could easily satisfy his curiosity by simply reading High Hopes...
Gerard Sullivan wrote:August 27th (1975) was a Friday, and I was actually home for dinner.
Gerard Sullivan wrote:Then the phone rang, and I never finished dinner.
Gerard Sullivan wrote:The caller was Tom Spota, a longtime friend and fellow assistant district attorney.
Gerard Sullivan wrote:He said that a jailer named James DeVito had just laid a bombshell on him.
Gerard Sullivan wrote:I broke the speed limit most of the way to the office.
Gerard Sullivan wrote:DeVito said DeFeo never admitted that he pulled the trigger. Although he changed details in different conversations, his basic story was that he was in the house with Bobby Kelske, Sherry Klein and another man and woman, searching for seventy five thousand dollars that his father had hidden in the premises. One of the parents,
apparently his father, came out of the master bedroom and caught them. One of DeFeo’s companions – DeVito did not recall him saying which one – shot the parent with Ronnie’s rifle. DeVito’s impression was that this first killing might have taken place on a stairs. DeFeo said something about a stairs, and mentioned that a picture of one of his grandfathers on the stairway wall was splattered with blood.
Gerard Sullivan wrote:On several occasions, I visited the house with the jack-o-lantern windows on Ocean Avenue, where death struck in multiples. Two visits stand out. One was with police, including a department serologist, to check something DeFeo had told Jimmy DeVito – that his father had been shot outside the master bedroom, near the stairs. We were searching for blood traces on the wall or the hallway rug.
Image

User avatar
radiomixer
Billy's Next Ex-Wife
Posts: 3542

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by radiomixer » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:23 am

Image




Image




Image




Image



Image
"I'm gonna tell you straight up. I didn't care who they blamed as long as it wasn't me. I mean, that's the bottom line. I did not care. I didn't care then and I don't care now." - Ronald DeFeo Jr. interview for "First Person Killers"

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:16 am

msmart112 wrote:
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:The one thing that remains consistent in all of the stories that he (Ronnie) has ever told about what happened that night, was the involvement of his sister Dawn, which started almost from day one.
This is absolutely false.

Ronnie has given over a DOZEN versions that did NOT involve Dawn..
It is a lie that he accused Dawn on day 1, his confession did not mention Dawn as being involved nor even his lies before he finally confessed. The first time he mentioned Dawn was while in jail to his aunt when he said, "for all you know Dawn was involved" which is hardly stating outright that she did anything. The accusations against Dawn started in earnest with Race's erroneous claims that the unburned powder on her nightgown suggests she fired a weapon but that clai was never made to the jury only to the judge to try to buy time. At trial he confessed to commiiting the murders alone. While in jail he tried ou the claim his mother killed the kids but after that was dismissed as ridiculous he changed to saying Dawn killed the kids. How is that consistent? So we have 2 lies here the lie that he consistently said Dawn was involved and the claim he said so almost immediately since day one, neither is true.



msmart112 wrote:According to SH...at 11:00 PM on November 13, 1974...a neighbor approached Geraldine and informed her of the murders. This neighbor then told Geraldine to turn on Channel Five (which by 11:00 was airing The Best of Groucho). According Geraldine (via TNTDD)...she arrived in Amityville "close to midnight".

So she made the nearly two hour drive in an hour?
I don't remember SH giving an exact time when this neighbor said to turn on the news. Channel 5 had a 10 o'clock news program then and even now not 11 like the major networks so that could be where the 10 came from. I always thought that the news program was supposedly an earlier news broadcast to try to make it appear more credible she could get there that night but trying to make sense is not something anyone ever accused Geraldine of. Her claim she was there is as made up as her claim he met the defense attorneys involved and visited him in prison. Prison records show she never visited him as claimed, her first visit was in 1985 and Ron's attorney said he never heard any claim of Ron being married or anything about Geraldien at all while he represented Ron. But of course Katzenbach ignores such evidence because it is inconvenient to his lies.


msmart112 wrote:
Ryan Katzenbach wrote:Bobby Kelse drove to Brooklyn with his .38 revolver it is said. And Bobby Kelske went to the home of one Frank Boyde, who was a Brigante Buick dealership employee.
Ric Osuna wrote:According to an affirmation that I had located, a Frank Boyde who had worked with Butch DeFeo at the dealership, had actually melted down a Colt Python.
Then Ed Asner reads the affirmation...and there's even a reencatment showing Kelske giving the gun to Boyde.

If anyone wants to read this obviously fake affirmation...here it is...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... nklyn1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/m ... nklyn2.jpg

It is not an affirmation at all. This document is purportedly written by and signed by a lawyer not Boyd. (The spelling is wrong by the way his name was Boyd). At best this would constitute attorney notes. Unless someone presents ID you have no idea whther they are who they purport to be that is why in order to notarize something official ID is required if the person is not personally known to the notary. Anyway could appear in an attorney office, claim to be someoen and make up a story then leave without signing anything. There is no evidence that is actually the case though the entire story of what this document was created for is pure nonsense. Moreover this document was never submitted to the court as claimed, if it had been part of a motion it would have been filed with the court but is not anywhere in the file. Indeed the supposed motion it was submitted with does not exist in the court record (not only was such motion never made there is no such type of motion anyway).

Furthermore, if this document were genuine and part of the defense legla file then ROn's defense lawyer would have seen it and told Race about the claim and also tried to locate Boyd himself to question. This document was fabricated well after the trial (after the attorney who supposedly wrote it was dead) which is why Ron's trial counsel never heard of any such claim and why Race never heard of any such claim. Since Katzenbach tries to make so much of Race's opinions and files even he should recognize this claim is fake since Race had nothing in his file about it, was not told anything about this claim and neither did his trial counsel but Katzenbach couldn't care less about the truth.

A funny thing is that Katzenbach insists the gun he found was linked to the murders and proved his theory correct that Boyd did not melt any gun yet he included the reenactment anyway though he supposedly believes it was made up. His belief is that the "2nd gun" was tossed in the amityville canal which would mean all the claims in the affirmation had to be made up. Why did he present a version he believes was made up?


In a similar way he ignores that the police records he keeps bragging about obtaining say nothing about interviewing Boyd on the 15th. Indeed what would put police on to Boyd so fast that they would interview him less than 24 hours after finding the bodies? But there is no evidence they interviewed him at all about the murders. Once again Katzenbach ignores the evidence and cherrypicks what he wants to present.

msmart112 wrote:
Ed Asner wrote:In his interview with Ric Osuna, Butch DeFeo claimed that the Suffolk County homicide detectives beat him and Bobby Kelske for twenty hours until they obtained an eight-page confession statement.
There is nothing about the homicide detectives allegedly beating Bobby Kelse for twenty hours in TNTDD...and Kelske said in court that he was not beaten.

Also...the police never obtained an eight-page confession.

Katzenbach consistently ignores contemporaneous evidence and goes with claims allegedly told to Osuna though there is no evidence to corroborate those claims. Worse yet Katzenbach fails to reveal that Ron denies telling Osuna such things. Even if he had told Osuna such it doesn't prove squat but he denies it and insists he didn't speak to Osuna long he claims the visit was very short. Any rational person would find it INCREDIBLE that in one jail visit the entire contents of the book could be told to Osuna. Any rational person woudl recognize it woudl take multiple visits for him to be able to recount so much information and details. Thus Ron actually seems more credible than Osuna in this regard. Especially since Osuna claims he was told he was welcome back but never took advantage by his own admission to visit again.

Geraldine Gates wrote:I went to see grandpa, Mike Brigante. Grandpa told me that he needed to talk to me, it was something that was very urgent and very important, and I had to sit down. He had gotten word that this little snip in the DA's office was convinced that Butch did not commit the crimes alone. He had received a phone call from Linn Nonnewitz, a panicked phone call from Linn and Roger, that Detective Rafferty and Detective Harrison had been to her home and were looking for a second gun. They also tried to make the Nonnewitzs confirm that a female who was well acquainted with the children was the accomplice to the crime. Grandpa got wind of this from three different precincts, and he said, "Gerri, you're that female."
Only 1 precinct had jurisdiction over the crime. Geraldine's lies always go over the top and make no sense like her claim that Ron's lawyer told her he wanted to file a motion for a change of Venue with the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court. Moreover, it would be too late police would already know about he rif she was at the house on the night of the murders, at their funeral and visited him in jail as claimed. Sullivan interviewed all those who visited and exchanged mail with him in prison including his real girlfriend Mindy Weiss. Gerladine never visited and never wrote hence was never interviewed. This is verifiable but Katzenbach chose to ignore the evidence and go with the BS about the mob erasing all evidence of her to try to fool people into believing this crap.

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1934

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:53 am

Ryan Katzenbach wrote:Another small detail that caught my attention was that of the dresser, in the master bedroom. There is what appears to be a blemish in the photo, and I thought that that's all it was, just a blemish. But then when I began to look under a magnifying glass, if you look at the corner of one of the dresser drawers you can see what appears to be a dark red stain. This stain actually follows the contour of the dresser drawer. This is what I believe is blood, smeared on the drawer of the dresser in the master bedroom, which in my mind, further indicates some sort of movement, possibly, on the part of big Ronnie DeFeo.
Here is the "blood smear" that Ryan is referring to...

Image

...and here is the picture that Ryan uses in his "film" next to a screengrab from the Murder in Amityville doc...

Image

...you can put the magnifying glass away Ryan...your "blood smear" is just a blemish.
Image

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:06 am

WIth Ryan, the police are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

To be thorough they investigate all claims including the claim that his father was shot on the stairs and there is blood evidence to prove it. All of the investigations turn up no blood thus prove the claims to be false. If police had not investigated then he woudl be claiming they missed blood evidence and attakcing them. Because they did investigate he is is trying to claim tha tproves they believed the story and even suggesting this means the story must be true IGNORING that they determined all these claims to be false after conducting a thorough investigaiton.

He ignored they cut up carpet where there were stains to test the stains for blood, he ignores that luminol was used to test for blood around the bedrooms to try to see if the bodies were moved. He pretends police never did these things so that people will believe his ridiculous claims might be possible.

He ignores tha at trial there were giant blow up of the microscopic views of the bullets so the jury could see exactly what attribures the expert was referring to that prove the bullets were fired by a Marlin 336C and testimony about measurments.

The guy is a joke. He is a liar and not even all that bright except in his own mind. His research is also a joke. He failed to turn up the most basic of things such as that Billy Davidge didn't move to Florida until after the murders. He ignores all the evidence of Geraldine living elsehwere, married to someone else. At the end fo the day all he has done is solidify his reputation as a lying hack.

User avatar
astonio
Resident
Posts: 942
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:02 am

I've said before...I believe a couple of times...this is humiliating.

After Part 1 was released and all the inconsistencies and misinformation contained in the film were challenged and/or proven out and out wrong or a lie, you'd think as the captain of this ship, when producing Part 2, you'd tighten things up some. Show the world you're about the business. But it sounds as if the sophomoric release just continues along the same path.

Further, maybe...just maybe...Ryan doesn't see it as he's lying. If one believes a lie, is it a lie in their head?
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:09 am

astonio wrote:I've said before...I believe a couple of times...this is humiliating.

After Part 1 was released and all the inconsistencies and misinformation contained in the film were challenged and/or proven out and out wrong or a lie, you'd think as the captain of this ship, when producing Part 2, you'd tighten things up some. Show the world you're about the business. But it sounds as if the sophomoric release just continues along the same path.

Further, maybe...just maybe...Ryan doesn't see it as he's lying. If one believes a lie, is it a lie in their head?
He goes out of his way to distort and when you prove he distorted he bans you, tries to silence you (even having bad reviews deleted on Amazon because they expose the truth) and attacks you personally to divert from the issues at hand. Nope he seems to be fully aware of his deception and intentionally engaging in it. I don't think even he is neurotic enough to believe his own BS.

User avatar
astonio
Resident
Posts: 942
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:20 am

You're right about his dismissive and defensive responses to his project. I recall a time I was having light chat with one of Mrs. Gates' daughters (Jill?) on FB on the Truth or Consequences page and Ryan comes on. He was responding to the criticism of posting Marc's autopsy information and when I explained that this was a 12-year old child and that the portions of the report he did post bore no impact on the case and that by posting Marc's information as such, he was demeaning a murdered child, he essentially told me to *#&@ off.

What grown ass man can NOT grasp there may be an issue with posting a 12-year old child's autopsy report on Facebook?!?! He left shortly after my reply to his dismissal as if he made no error at all. Smh.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:51 am

astonio wrote:You're right about his dismissive and defensive responses to his project. I recall a time I was having light chat with one of Mrs. Gates' daughters (Jill?) on FB on the Truth or Consequences page and Ryan comes on. He was responding to the criticism of posting Marc's autopsy information and when I explained that this was a 12-year old child and that the portions of the report he did post bore no impact on the case and that by posting Marc's information as such, he was demeaning a murdered child, he essentially told me to *#&@ off.

What grown ass man can NOT grasp there may be an issue with posting a 12-year old child's autopsy report on Facebook?!?! He left shortly after my reply to his dismissal as if he made no error at all. Smh.
The fact he considers anyone who posts here as being instantly against him shows the mentality being dealth with. He acts as if everyone here has the same opinion about everything and is acting in concert. It is a message board, it has peopel from all walks of life who never met eachother from all over the World. Instantly posting here you become a "hater".

When I first registered here I wondered what was up with the posts about Katzenbach. After dealing with him firsthand I realized that everything posted about him is accurate. He is an insecure, immature, seeking fame and recognition an dis willing to distort to get it instea dof earning it. When I challenged him with valid, tough questions he acted like a baby and effectively ran away from the questions instead of addressing them. Instead of letting him divert I kept reasking those questions and he banned me. He also erased my posts to make sure the facts I posted were not sitting on his page for all to read.

If he devoted half as much time to the truth as he does to twisting things he might have gotten somewhere. As it is all he does is contradict and humilate himself.

Why create a scene he doesn't even believe occurred? A scene based on a forged document recounting events he doesn't believe occurred? He asserts a gun was dumped in the water not that Kelske drove to Brooklyn to get rid of it so why show that scene? How would Kelske know Boyd's address? Even if he had known Boyd from the shop and somehow managed to find out where he lived why would he go all the way to Brooklyn and risk Boyd ratting on him? It would be easier to dispose of a firearm alone so there are no witnesses and there are so many different ways including but not limited to the water. There was no need to go all the way to Brooklyn and invovle another person he didn't know well. Worse yet how did they go melt the gun without Ron seeing them go in and out if they went in while Ron parked in front and how would Boyd have the keys anyway? Why woudl Boyd admit to police he was an accessory after the fact? Why would police even suspect let alone interview Boyd. Why would police not investigate Kelske if they had been told such things by Boyd? Why would police want to protect Kelske and thus tell Boyd to hush up and not prosecute him for disposal of evidence? If Ron's lawyers had been told of these claims (as is asserted) they certianly would have pursued the issue. It makes no sense on so many levels even before you look at the forgery issue. So why include this nonsense?

I find it hilarous that on one hand he insists item 33 is not a 35 caliber rifle round and yet that this is the very bullet is th eone identified on scene as a 35 caliber and it proves police knew right away they were looking for a 35 caliber rifle. The man was too stupid to recognize the contradiction and too dishonest to address it when it was pointed out to him.

My opinion of Katzenbach comes not from this site but from his own actions. The fact so many people get the same impression from him bring sup the old adage everyone can't be wrong.

kathyM
Princess
Posts: 2701

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by kathyM » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:27 pm

Yeah, that becomes a whole lot of lawsuits! :)

User avatar
astonio
Resident
Posts: 942
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:12 am

I completely agree, Scipio. There is a story to uncover surrounding the case that does not require revising facts and items of record. The problem as I see it is Ryan needs to be aligned with the foundation of his documentary and that is the story spun out of TNTDD. I believe I read he bought the rights to the book and thus created this project. It's not as if he independently embarked on investigating the story in comparison to the facts asserted from the book. I also see him as diminishing Ronnie's responsibility by supporting these outrageous claims and attempting to create reasonable doubt....damn near 40 years AFTER the fact? And with information that has been proven invalid or admitted as lies. It's insane. And the only reason he dismisses any challenges to his cause is because he didn't consider prior the alternative or rather, the truth. Further, with SO many incorrect facts he is producing, how can one call this a "true" story? And what of one's pride? I mean, if your challenged on all points and you continually come up wrong...is that not humiliating enough? Why does this NOT inspire turning your vehicle around and thinking things through, or reexamining what was told to you from a not so credible source?

Thankfully, this documentary will not provide the impact the DeFeo story as was his aim. If this were fiction, which in most respects it is, this WOULD be a great story.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1934

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by msmart112 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:40 pm

You should have your DVD early next week, Sto...I look forward to reading your review!
Image

User avatar
Brendan72
Forest Giant
Posts: 3046
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Brendan72 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:42 am

And the saga continues on Shattered Reviews, Part II ...
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

User avatar
Brendan72
Forest Giant
Posts: 3046
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Brendan72 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:44 am

msmart112 wrote:You should have your DVD early next week, Sto...I look forward to reading your review!
Sto, you should copy it just in case it is "accidentally" erased.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

User avatar
Dan the Damned
Lost Soul
Posts: 11893

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Dan the Damned » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:05 am

Erased from where?

User avatar
Shawn
Been there, Done that
Posts: 2435

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Shawn » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:57 pm

I wonder if he is going to stream it on Amazon. He would be completely stupid to not do that. :doh:
Any and all comments made by the poster "Shawn" are purely his opinion and do not reflect the opinions of the board owners, administrators or moderators. Also, all postings done by the member "Shawn" are property of "Shawn" and cannot be reproduced in any way shape or form without written permission from the poster known here(@http://www.amityvillefaq.com) as "Shawn". TIA.

User avatar
astonio
Resident
Posts: 942
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by astonio » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:16 am

Thanks, Max. Now that I moved to Brooklyn, maybe I can make a nostalgic review of sorts. :pray:
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

User avatar
AKA JH70
I got yer stinkin' quarter!
Posts: 721
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by AKA JH70 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:00 am

Shawn wrote:I wonder if he is going to stream it on Amazon. He would be completely stupid to not do that. :doh:

Last I read, he said he wasn't going to have Amazon sell it for him

User avatar
Dan the Damned
Lost Soul
Posts: 11893

Re: Shattered Hopes Part II

Post by Dan the Damned » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 am

Yeah, but I thought I read at one point him saying he would sell it on Amazon at a later date -- and/or stream it via Amazon at a later date. Something like that. I remember this because it caught me off-guard, wondering why he would say this when he previously announced Amazon wouldn't be selling Part II at all.

I'm pretty sure I saw it in his fb feed or his twitter feed, but I sure as heck ain't gonna go searching through all that drivel just to find it. Especially when he seems to change his mind so frequently, anyway.

Post Reply