Augie Degenaro

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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msmart112
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Augie Degenaro

Post by msmart112 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:03 pm

In TNTDD...Geraldine Gates and Ric Osuna wrote about a 1969 pool party...
Geraldine Gates and Ric Osuna wrote:In August 1969, Butch invited Geraldine to his home in Amityville, New York. He had wanted to show off his older girlfriend to his family.
Geraldine Gates and Ric Osuna wrote:It was early afternoon when Geraldine arrived for the pool party Butch had planned. It was a hot, muggy day, perfect for swimming.
Geraldine Gates and Ric Osuna wrote:After giving Geraldine a cursory tour of the house, Butch and his girlfriend joined his other friends in the pool.
...and in Shattered Hopes...Geraldine recalls this 1969 pool party...and meeting Ronnie's friends...

"And his two friends were there also, Bobby Kelske, who I thought was a fantastic person. He was very quiet, I think Bobby studied you. And Augie Degenaro, who was quite a character. Augie had the mafia look about him, he was very close with Joey Gallo, and was trying to mimic being a made man."

...so according to Geraldine...in 1969...Augie was very close with Joey Gallo.

That's pretty amazing since Joey Gallo was incarcerated from the early sixties until early 1971...

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Howard64
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by Howard64 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:05 pm

Question if I may ask..

How can someone be that close to a person who is locked
up in prison? It would seem to me that if...IF someone
was a part of a family, the LAST thing they would want to do
is discuss things of a sensitive nature within earshot of
prison officials.

It boggles the mind, but this seems a perfect example here
to never accept someones testimony at face value.
" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of
the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by kathyM » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:18 pm

I see Augie died last year if this is the right man in this obit.
If he graduated high school and then received his college education while in the service then how did he have the time to be hanging with Ronnie at age 23? Unless Augie joined the service years after he graduated maybe? Was Augie working after high school and then later joined?


http://www.balogafuneralhome.com/condol ... .jsp?id=19

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:49 pm

I remember Bobby Kelske's son accused Ric of "checking the obituaries" because Ric sent him a condolence message the day Bobby passed away.

And after his passing, Ric included Bobby in his murder spree, along with Ronnie, Augie & Dawn.


Last year Katzenbach did the bulk of his posting on this forum between January and Febuary 2011, stopping abruptly on Feb 10th, the day this "Augie" died.

Could it be he was also "checking the obituaries" and now, with the final "accomplice" dead, he had better things to get on with, with no fear of a lawsuit?

Or is this just coincidence?

:think:

Either way I like to think Augie is playing a big bad-ass piano up there in Heaven... :angel:

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msmart112
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by msmart112 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:38 pm

So this Augie DeGennaro just happened to be about the same age as Ronnie...and he just happened to have graduated from high school in Massapequa...which just happens to be about a mile or so west of Amityville.

Interesting...very interesting.

:think:
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Shawn
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by Shawn » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:23 am

This is gonna get better, isn't it? ;)
Any and all comments made by the poster "Shawn" are purely his opinion and do not reflect the opinions of the board owners, administrators or moderators. Also, all postings done by the member "Shawn" are property of "Shawn" and cannot be reproduced in any way shape or form without written permission from the poster known here(@http://www.amityvillefaq.com) as "Shawn". TIA.

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msmart112
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by msmart112 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:17 pm

Shawn wrote:This is gonna get better, isn't it? ;)
Yep! :D
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VintageBoy91
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by VintageBoy91 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:58 am

msmart112 wrote:So this Augie DeGennaro just happened to be about the same age as Ronnie...and he just happened to have graduated from high school in Massapequa...which just happens to be about a mile or so west of Amityville.

Interesting...very interesting.

:think:
.....mysterious. :think:

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Howard64
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by Howard64 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:11 am

I have thought about this as well...very mysterious
indeed.
" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of
the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

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Rokiisun
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by Rokiisun » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:19 pm

What I don't understand is the 'Augie playing the piano' story... :?
I don't believe it for a number of reasons:

1) Why would Augie's playing of the piano attract the party downstairs but not Louise
and big Ronnie upstairs? Sound travels up more than it does down, so surely big
Ronnie and Louise would have heard the piano being played much louder than those
down in the basement did.

2) Couldn't Augie have silently slipped down into the basement and quietly told the others
that there was a serious conversation going on upstairs without drawing attention to the
group by playing the piano? The group could have still silently slipped up the stairs to have
a listen in.

3) Why was Augie doing on his own on the first floor anyway?
It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.

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astonio
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by astonio » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:13 am

kathyM wrote:I see Augie died last year if this is the right man in this obit.
If he graduated high school and then received his college education while in the service then how did he have the time to be hanging with Ronnie at age 23? Unless Augie joined the service years after he graduated maybe? Was Augie working after high school and then later joined?


http://www.balogafuneralhome.com/condol ... .jsp?id=19
Great find, KathyM.

What struck me is the omission of yet another obviously present character when listening to the versions asserted as the true story of the DeFeos and that's Augie's wife. Butch surely would have mentioned Augie's wife as they'd been married since 1972, right? Or, was Augie a part of some local urban legend having moved from Long Island with his wife, pursued his education and career without staying in touch with the scene and those left behind crafted the witness protection program story as told to Ms. Gates from Ronnie at some point and without checking facts, again, Ryan presents this character as truthfully a part of the events surrounding the murders when Augie cannot defend himself since he's passed? :?
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by kathyM » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:54 am

Yeah, I wonder where Augie's wife was supposed to be during this piano playing? If he was married why would he be hanging out at Ronnie's house anyway?

IF I was Augie's family I would sue to stop this documentary. But then they probably are not aware of it. The only people that have heard about it or even care are the people on these boards. Lol!

For a really, really intelligent documentary as Ryan likes to call it, there sure is a lot of information that is coming up not factual at all.

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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by ReneeM » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:51 am

kathyM wrote:I see Augie died last year if this is the right man in this obit.
If he graduated high school and then received his college education while in the service then how did he have the time to be hanging with Ronnie at age 23? Unless Augie joined the service years after he graduated maybe? Was Augie working after high school and then later joined?


http://www.balogafuneralhome.com/condol ... .jsp?id=19


this is not far from where we live. (Wilkes-Barre/Pittston)

RitaF
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by RitaF » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:14 pm

I was told about this website today. I just so happen to be the daughter in law of the Augustine DeGennaro in the obit. Yes, he knew Ronny. Yes, they went to school together. But, so did a lot of people. He didn't even know how to play the piano. And he had nothing NOTHING to do with the murders. I also see that someone is making a documentary, or book. All I know about it is that there is one. If anyone has more information about it please post it here. He is definitely not the person they are trying to make him out to be. The Augi I knew was an awesome human being. He was a loving, caring, funny man, who put family above all else.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:38 am

Hi, the book came out in 2002 -

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/

The documentary version is called Shattered Hopes, it's in three parts, with the part two just released...

http://www.amityvillefilm.com/

https://www.facebook.com/ShatteredHopes ... le?fref=ts

Augie is essentially there on the night of the murders, listens to Dawn and Butch plan to kill their father, then appears to go into hiding soon after...

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Brendan72
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by Brendan72 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:31 am

it seems awfully convenient for Geraldine to talk about an alleged pool party in 1969, particularly which we only have her word to verify it.

We could of course ask the following people whether such a party was attended by Geraldine, or could verify knowing her at this time, except for the obvious reasons:

* Bobby Kelske - deceased;
* Augie Degenaro - deceased;
* Joe Gallo - deceased;
* Louise DeFeo - deceased;
* Ronald DeFeo Sr. - deceased;
* Dawn, Alison, John Luke or Mark DeFeo - all deceased;
* Michael Brigante - deceased;

It would not surprise anybody on this board that good majority of people (credible people) who could verify the woman's connection with the DeFeo's and Butch DeFeo in those years are no long with us - but how convenient for Geraldine particularly when her story could be shot out of the water so easily (pardon the pun considering they found a revolver in the Amityville river, also conveniently). I guess we could only rely on her testimony right?
- Brendan72

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:00 am

I think this is the reason they have to keep Shattered Hopes low-key... otherwise more people like RitaF will come out the woodwork and the game will be up.

scipio-USMC
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:44 am

RitaF wrote:I was told about this website today. I just so happen to be the daughter in law of the Augustine DeGennaro in the obit. Yes, he knew Ronny. Yes, they went to school together. But, so did a lot of people. He didn't even know how to play the piano. And he had nothing NOTHING to do with the murders. I also see that someone is making a documentary, or book. All I know about it is that there is one. If anyone has more information about it please post it here. He is definitely not the person they are trying to make him out to be. The Augi I knew was an awesome human being. He was a loving, caring, funny man, who put family above all else.
I sent you a private message check your inbox. If it pans out that you are who you say I am willing to help provide as much informtation as I can for you to have your family debunk.

scipio-USMC
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:15 am

First some background about the source of the claims to be discussed. On November 30, 2000, Ronald DeFeo met with Ric Osuna, the author of ''The Night the DeFeos Died'', which was published in 2002 and Geraldine Gates. According to Osuna, DeFeo claimed that he had planned the murders with his sister Dawn and two friends, Bobby Kelske and Augie DeGennaro. Osuna spent a very short time speaking with DeFeo and only met him this single occasion. It thus seems amazing that he could have told Osuna all of the things that Osuna claims he told him. To a large extent Osuna credits accounts to admitted liar Geraldine Gates. DeFeo asserts that he told them to leave him alone and denies providing to them the accounts published in the book.

As this thread demonstrates the book does not contain the only accounts about Augie. For at least a decade Geraldine Gates has been posting claims on the internet as well as doing taped interviews and discussing things in person and she claims to have personally known Augie and provides all sorts of accounts of him spending time with her and the DeFeos and to also know about the rest of his life such as the claim he was hanging out with crazy Joe. It is pretty obvious she made up the claim he was hanging out with him since he was in jail and pretty obvious she never checks her facts before making up her wild stories figuring no one will investigate.

Augie p 32

Another friend who had ties to the Mob was Augusta “Augie” Degenero. According to Butch and Geraldine, Augie hung out with “made men” connected to the Gallos and then later the Colombos. Butch summed Augie up best when he said he was a “wannabe who talked the talk, but did not walk the walk.”

P39-40

A few weeks later, Butch’s brake lines to his Buick were cut. Although he avoided an accident and made it into the dealership without injury, he was visibly shaken. He felt, without a doubt, that his father was responsible. Thus, fearing for his grandfather’s life, and now his own, Butch enlisted the aid of Bobby Kelske and Augie Degenaro to help kill Big Ronnie around Christmas time 1974.

P 43

In an affidavit to Butch’s attorney, Augie Degenaro stated, “Dawn DeFeo had begun talking with him about wanting a gun that was clean [no markings] and to have him assist her in the crime of killing her father. She knew he had money hidden, and if he helped her, she would find it and give him half. She [Dawn DeFeo] also wanted him to get her heavy-duty sleeping pills.” Augie Degenaro was not the only one Dawn had approached about wanting to kill her father. She told other people that she was prepared to kill her entire family if that was what it took to get out of the house. Eventually, Dawn learned about Butch’s planned hit on their father in Brooklyn. But for Dawn, Christmas time was too far away; she wanted out sooner.

P 48

Their concentration was finally broken when they heard the blender in the kitchen upstairs. Upon investigating, they found Augie Degenaro making a tonic for Dawn, which would help the girl sober up. Butch explained,

P 51

While Dawn was trying to convince her brother about the need to kill everyone, Augie began playing the piano in the living room. Fearing his mother would return downstairs to complain about the noise, Butch raced to the living room and asked Augie, “What are you, a nut job?” Just then, Butch realized Augie’s reason for playing the piano. While the others were laughing downstairs, Augie heard Big Ronnie and Louise conferring in their bedroom. Big Ronnie was shouting how he had to take care of Butch and Dawn once and for all. Augie did not want the others to hear Big Ronnie’s twisted plot, but instead of drowning out the noise, his piano playing attracted Butch’s attention.
Now Butch heard his parents conspire against him and Dawn. Big Ronnie was badgering Louise that they had to institutionalize Dawn and kill Butch. Louise said she could never do that to her son. Big Ronnie reminded her, “I gave him life, so I can take it away.” According to Big Ronnie, it was his God-given right. Just then, Butch heard his mother start crying. At that point, Butch knew his mother had caved in and that she would agree with anything his father wanted to do to them. Dawn, who by that time had come upstairs with Bobby Kelske, reiterated to Butch that there was no defense from their father’s plan to kill them or pay a quack doctor to commit them to a mental institution. It was a tough decision because Butch, at one time, had been extremely close to his mother. Now he had to choose either take his chances and hope his father’s threats were idle or follow through with Dawn’s plan to kill their parents.

P 53

“Maybe we can talk the old man into going to Brooklyn,” Bobby Kelske said, suggesting they hit Big Ronnie as planned, but only sooner. Butch replied, “Yeah, but what do I do about my mother? Run her over in the streets?” Augie chimed in, saying, “Yeah, it would look good, like Louise had suffered a hit and run.” Dawn jumped up and said, “This is stupid. This is not the way.” Turning to Butch, she said, “You’re all talk. You never do :) flower :). When you want something done, you got to do it yourself.” Dawn then began laughing loudly, causing Butch to think she was suffering from hysteria.


P 54

A few moments later, Dawn returned to the basement. She told her brother that he was a
coward and complained how they were going to be trapped for the rest of their lives. She insisted they had to do something. Finally raising his head, Butch said, “What?” Dawn calmly replied, “Kill them.” With that, she leaned over a kissed her brother on his cheek in a similar way that Judas kissed Jesus right before he betrayed him. She repeated herself, saying “Come on; let’s kill them now.” After seeing Dawn’s antics, Bobby and Augie laughed, thinking it was all a joke. It was then that Butch realized that his sister was holding his deer-hunting rifle, a .35-caliber Marlin.

P55

According to Butch, the plan was simple. They would kill Big Ronnie and Louise; then Augie and Dawn would take the children to the Brigantes’ house in Brooklyn. Butch and Bobby, on the other hand, would stick around to make the crime look like a botched robbery.

P 56-57

It was over. Both Big Ronnie and Louise lay dead. Like a schoolgirl who had just been kissed for the first time, Dawn ran happily up to her room. Butch called after his sister to remind her to take the kids with Augie to his grandparents’ house in Brooklyn. “All of a sudden, Bobby lost it. He took off running downstairs and out the front door,” Butch explained. “He stopped in the front yard and started puking his guts out. I told him to get back inside because we had to clean up the mess.”

Standing at the front door, waiting for Bobby, Butch heard Marc call out from his bedroom, “What’s going on?” Not wanting his brother to see his father lying in the hallway, he told Marc to stay in his room because there was a burglar in the house. Butch turned and went back to get Bobby inside. As he approached the front door, Butch saw from the foyer clock that the time was 1:05 a.m. Wearing only his white socks, Butch went outside to find Bobby, who was nowhere in sight.

Seeing Augie sitting in his car in the driveway, Butch asked him, “Where’s Bobby?” “Somewhere down that way,” Augie replied, pointing down Ocean Avenue. Knowing Bobby was not going to return on his own accord, Butch ran upstairs to put his boots on. Before leaving the third floor, however, Butch shouted to Dawn, “I’ll be right back. Get the kids ready.”

A few minutes had passed, and Butch was getting nowhere with his search for Bobby. Suddenly, the silence of the night was broken by Augie’s car racing down Ocean Avenue toward him. The car finally screeched to a halt, almost hitting Butch. “I asked Augie what the hell was wrong.” Butch said. Agitated and angry, Augie told him, “Dawn was stoned and acting like an idiot. She placed a gun to my head, but instead of killing me, fired it into the car.” Although Butch tried to convince Augie to return to the house with him, the bullet hole in the car’s floor was reason enough for him not to.

With Augie gone, Butch’s problems were multiplying. Dawn’s state of mind, however, was not Butch’s first priority. “Rather,” Butch explained, “I had to find Bobby because, knowing him, he’d shoot his mouth off.” So Butch ran back home, jumped in his car, and drove around the neighborhood looking for his friend.

P 63

Driving like a maniac, Butch made his way back to Brooklyn. “I wanted to get the stuff as far away from me as possible,” Butch explained. “So I dumped it near the place that Bobby, Augie and I had originally intended to kill my father.”

P88

Another individual I tried to contact was Augie Degenero. From the onset, I was told Augie was a very elusive character. In fact, he refused to even list an address in an affidavit he made for Butch DeFeo in front of Butch’s attorney in 1974. Nevertheless, I was hopeful that he could be found. During my conversation with former Brooklyn Assistant District Attorney John Christopher Fine, I asked him about Augie. Although Fine stated he had known Augie Degenaro, he said he was unable and unwilling to provide me with any information more than that, citing it was a confidential matter. Although Fine’s unwillingness to help me locate Augie was a disappointment, I found it fit a pattern. I had heard from sources tied to organized crime that Augie Degenero, at one point, had either turned state’s evidence and was under some form of witness protection, or was dead. For all intents and purposes, he had completely disappeared.

P108

Instead of stopping there, Siegfried went a step further and got two affidavits from Augie Degenaro. In his affidavits, Augie confirmed the fact he had been outside the house on November 13, 1974, and how Dawn had previously offered him money to help him kill
Big Ronnie, and how she wanted him to get heavy-duty sleeping pills that would not taste bad. Augie went on to state, “he knew Ronald DeFeo Sr. Had attempted to confine his son in certain matters and a scare tactic was used by cutting DeFeo’s [Butch’s] brake line in his car to convince DeFeo [Butch] to cooperate with him.”


So the book claims that both Ron DeFeo and Dawn DeFeo separately went to Augie seeking his help to murder their father. First of all, for something like that you would only want to involve your closest friends you trust will not talk because if they could ruin your plans by going to the police, ruin your plans by informing your relatives or rat you out after the deed. While Kelske was his best friend how close was he to Augie? Clearly not one of the inner circle. Moreover, if Ron considered Augie a wannabee who did not walk the walk then why would he go to him? It doesn't seem very logical.

Even less logical is the claim that Augie agreed to help Ron and Bobby kill Ron Sr and yet chose to play the piano to hide that Ron Sr was plotting against the kids and grandparents. Why would Rin Sr be loudly screaming about killing Ron knowing ROn is in the house anyway? But during the course of such screaming Augie decided to try to conceal it by playing the piano? It makes no sense. It would only make sense if Augie refused to help plan the murders and didn't want the murders to go forward which is not what was claimed. The book claims that Kelske didn’t want to do it but he owed Ron DeFeo for helping cover up a murder he committed so he had no choice but to help. The book never provides any reason why Augie would help.

Another question is how close Dawn would be to Augie that she would approach him of all people to help kill her father, let alone that both siblings would end up separately approaching the same person. Also how close that he would go home with her on the night of the 12th. The claim is that she left the house and went to a bar to cool off. She was drunk when she got home to apparently she got drunk there. Presumably this is where she met Augie since he followed her home. We know the claim can't be that he drove her home because the car she allegely drove to the bar was at the home at the time of the murders so they had to have taken separate cars to her home. Even if he was at the bar and saw her there why would he go home with her?

Some other things make no sense such as why they would plan to wait until Christmas to kill him. Supposedly the decision to kill him was made after Ron believed his father tried to kill him by cutting his break line and it was either kill his father or be killed. So he decided to kill his father first. If it is a race to kill his father before his father could kill him so why wait until Christmas? It makes no sense. This sounds just like Geraldine's fabrication about Louise's plan to poison the family. Allegedly in August or September 1974 Louise old Geraldine not to come to Thanksgiving dinner because she planned to poison her family. That would mean she planned it at least 2 if not more months in advance. She cooked their meals daily, if so desperate that she wanted to kill them all and commit suicide it makes no sense to plan to do it many months down the road. She could do it immediately anytime she wanted and would do so not wait. It makes even less sense to warn Gearldine given she didn't like Gerladine and was not close to her. This nonsense lie about waiting till Thanksgiving sounds too similar to the tale about waiing until Christmas and there is little doubt Geraldine is the source of both claims.

The plan they supposedly came up with makes no sense either. If someone broke in and killed their parents and Dawn wanted to get out of the house ASAP to get the kids to safety the logical place to run would be to a neighbor. Even if driving them to safety though WHY would she drive them all the way to her grandparents in Brooklyn instead of her grandparents who lived 10 minutes away? But even worse the plan was for Augie to take Dawn and the kids in her car and drop the off in Brooklyn. How would they explain him being around in the early AM at the time of the murders so he could then drive them to Brooklyn? Police would find such extremely suspicious and want to know what he witnessed and eve suspect his involvement. The book never explains this fatal flaw.

Augie got married in March of 1972 thus was married for several years at the time he supposedly was hanging out with the DeFeos and asked to help them commit the murders. Moreover he was 25 why would he hang around with Dawn? He also served in the Army after high school.

We have already seen lies about Augie supposedly hanging out with a guy who turned out to be in jail and died soon after getting out of prison. Lies about WIlliam Davidge's job being transferred to Florida after he was already dead. A logical question is whether Augie
was even in New York at all in the fall of 1974 when they supposedly sought him out to help kill their father and specifically on November 12, 1974. Was he in the Army at the time and stationed elsewhere? Was he going to school somewhere else at the time? Did he simply move from New York to another location for a reason other thanchol or the Army?

Certainly his siblings or other relatives would have some information about where he was living at the time and the extent of his relationship with the DeFeos. Relatives can secure a DD-214 which will establish when he entered and was discharged from the military and dates of specialized training.

Also his relatives would know about whether he would leave his wife home alone to go drink at bars late at night or go hang out with friends late at night as was alleged. Indeed, under the alleged plan he would drive to Brooklyn and not be back home till at least 4AM.

In addition his family could easily dismiss the pathetic excuse Osuna gave for not being able to find him to get his response to the claims. I found his name and address easy enough and so should Osuna have been able to do so. The nonsense about him being in witness protection and vanishing is a joke. Osuna didn't want to find him because he would have refuted the BS he and Geraldine contrived. Siblings would also know whether his car had a bullet hole in the floor board after the murders (recall the book claims Dawn shot a hole in the floor of his car).

I will post on the alleged affidavit separately including providing an image of it.

scipio-USMC
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Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:59 am

Here is what is mischaracterized as one of the Augie statements, why there is another is a good question. I have not seen it though.

Image

Note the date is the 12th, how would Siegfried, who only started handling the case in December, decide so fast that he needed a statement from Augie, how would he know how to get in touch with Augie and why would Augie appear in his office so quickly?

I suspect that he was not retained until mid December at that but even giving the benefit of the doubt that it was Monday December 2 that Brigante hired Siegfried that would mean he found a way to contact DeGennaro prior to December 12 and found some way of knowing get him in his office.

Augie was not one of the inner circle who hung out together so never interviewed by police. That right there calls into question the claims of him being such a close friend.

The victims were all dead including Dawn so could no tell Siegfried about Augie. If the tale were true only two people could tell Siegfried about Augie's supposed involvement- Ron Jr and Bobby Kelske. The first thing I would do (I am an attorney) is go speak to my client and get his side of events. Siegfried went to visit his client in mid december which suggests he either took or finally started working on the case later in the month.

We are supposed to believe that he learned about Augie and interviewed him prior to his initial interview of his client. This is not very easy to swallow but the tale about the supposed affidavit makes clear it is a forgery and completely worthless.

It is not an affidavit. An affidavit is first person and under oath. If taking an affidavit it would have DeGennaro being the speaker and Siegfried would have his secretary or whoever he had in his office who was a notary notirize it. It was routine to have your legal secretary be a notary to notarize documents. The one writing in first person in this document is Siegfried, thus it represents at best attorney notes. There would be no reaosn for Augie to even sign it, it is worthless except for his own personal use. If going to even bother to have him sign if but not have it notarized I woudl have it say I visited ... Esq on such and such day and told him... the first person would not be me.

The excuse given for the first person being from Siegfried is absurd, "He then planned to depose himself and enter an affirmation of the suppressed statements into the court."

There is no such thing as a lawyer deposing himself to get hearsay statements entered into evidence. This proves someoen who understands nothign at all about law made up this garbage. You get evidence entered through testimony. You call the person as a witness and try to get them to admit they came to your office and stated such things. If the person denies it a lawyer can't testify that they were told something, it is hearsay. You need to impeach a witness with other evidence not a lawyer claiming the person told them something.

So the very reason given for such document to be created is a farce.

Even if simply attorney notes, the lawyer would want to include as much contact information as possible to establish the identity. Here we have no address and no phone number simply places around NYC. If he didn't know his address or phone number and he refused to provide it how did he get in touch with Augie in the first place and get him to come to his office? We are supposed to believe that Augie contacted him on his own to tell him that he was there at the time of the murders and was solicited to commit murder? Why would Augie come forward with such on his own at all if refusing to give him address and ready to deny it if anyone asked? If the tale in the Night The DeFeo's Died were true Augie was guilty of conspiracy to commit murder at the very least. Why would he come forward and put himself at risk of prosecution?

His name is not even spelled right and is spelled two different ways Augusto and Augosta instead of Augustine and DeGennaro was spelled Degenaro. He supposedly signed it but his signature conveniently is redacted. If he didn't want to give the correct spelling of his name why would he give his name at all? In that case he would give a false name entirely not one very close to his own. The mispellings also prove that no ID was provided to prove who he was or they would know how to spell his name and his address. That means anybody oculd have shown up, claimed to have been Augie Degennaro and Siegfried would have no way of knowing if he really was or not.

But this is all made up entirely there is no doubt about that a tall. Aside from being absurd on its face and the other problems these documents are not in the court file, not in the legal file sent to Weber and were never investigated or used by either defense counsel.

1) Court file

Allegedly Siegfried filed a motion to have himself deposed in order to get the this and other statements into evidence but the court denied the motion. If that were true then the documents would have been filed with the court. Motion documents are made part of the court file. They are not part of the court file and the reason why is because there is no such motion in existence. Not only was such motion never made there is no such thing as such a motion. "Two days later, in a supplemental disclosure request, Siegfried motioned the court to allow the affirmations."

A disclosure request is a request for the other side to disclose documens or information. There is no such thing as a disclosure request to get something admitted into evidence. The fight of what arguments and evidence will be used at trial is determined after trial is scheduled not before (the trial was not scheduled till much later) and certainly not in a discloure request. Moreover, he had the actual witnesses to call at trial if desired so there would be no need to resort to docuemnts at all anyway and there are extremely limited circumstances even when witnesses are not available in which such statements can come in. His recourse would be to call the individuals at trial if he wanted to get any testomony from them in.

So we know for sure that it was a LIE that a motion was made to get such docuemnts into evidence and the supposed reaosn for their creation a LIE on top of all the other problems.

2) Legal file

If Siegfried had in fact turned up such evidence he would have investigated using a defense of Dawn and or someone hired by Dawn to commit the murders but never investigated such angle because he never was given any such accounts. His notes and the entire file was handed over to Weber. Weber never saw these supposed documents because they were not in the file. They were fabricated well after the conviction and falsely claimed to be part of the file. Weber was searching for evidence of the involvement of others and possibility of Dawn committing the murders. If this statement and the others had been in the legal file he would have interviewed all such persons himself and even likely called them at trial and pursued a different defense.

More evidence how this was all created after the fact and the analysis is about law in effect later and complete and utter BS is as follows:

"The court rejected Siegfried’s supplemental disclosure request, but allowed his original motions. And on March 11, 1975, Judge John J. J. Jones rules on Siegfried’s January 15th motion. Judge Jones approved a preliminary hearing regarding the admissibility of Butch’s purported confession. Furthermore, the court found that the evidence was legally sufficient enough to support the grand jury’s indictment, but allowed Siegfried access to the minutes of the proceedings.

The court, however, denied Siegfried’s request for the police reports, stating, “The reports of the police department requested, to the extent they constitute documents made in connection with the investigation of the defendant, are exempt from discovery under 240.10 (3) CPL. Defendant has made no showing that any of the police reports include routing factual information filed in the normal course of police activity, which is material to the preparation for his defense.”

240.10 (3) CPL, translated into layman’s terms, meant section 240.10, paragraph 3, of New York’s Criminal Procedure Law. However, the only item exempt under that section of the law is an “attorney’s work product” and not police reports. Judge Jone’s ruling was a small victory for the prosecution.

“At this point, Siegfried was feeling very aggravated,” Geraldine remembered. “So he wanted to petition the Chief Justice in Washington, D.C., for a change of venue. Butch wouldn’t allow him to because another inmate had told him how he tried a similar motion. The inmate told Butch that when his request was denied that the Suffolk County justice system got its revenge for seeking help outside the county.”
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Ok first of all at that time 240.10(3)(a) excluded “reports, memoranda or other internal documents or work papers made by district attorneys, police officers or agents, in connection with the investigation [and ] prosecution…of a criminal action” from disclosure.

Moroever, 240.10(3)(b) protected “statements of witnesses and prospective witnesses of both parties” from disclosure. 240.20 gave the court discretion to order disclosure of reports of physical and mental examinations and scientific tests conducted in connection with a case thus forensic examinations and mental examinations were subject to disclosure if a judge decided to allow it.

Second, the suggestion he considered going to the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court to get a change of venue is the ultimate joke. This was a state court proceeding the proper way to get a change of venue is to apply for a change under NY Court rules there was no way to petition the US Supreme Court and when you do have grounds to apply to the US Supreme Court for something in an emergency situation you get whichever justice is on call at that moment, it rotates. The Chief Justice doesn’t decide things on his own. That someone would print such trash illustrates not having any legal understanding at all, no common sense at all and definitely that they did not do any research and just accepted the biggest load of crap ever. The source of course for all this crap is Geraldine. She provided the false documents and also is the one who claims Siegfried told her about wanting to go the the Supreme Court. Her claim she met with him is as false as the claim she met with Weber to discuss Ron's defense- reclal Weber denied such ever happened. As fake as her claims she visited him in prison- records show she never visited, never exchanged mail and never exchanged phone calls until 1985.

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Augie Degenaro

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:04 am

Not mentioned was how the affidavit describes his supposed car. His family would be able to confirm whether he had a 1973 cadillac or not in 1974 and whether his car whatever it was had a bullet hole in the floor after November 13, 1974.

Whoever forged the statement didn't even know his real name was Augustine or how to spell his last name and just as easily could have made up the car he was driving simply thinking it sounded good to claim a wannabee mobster would drive a caddy.

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