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jimmysmokes
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm

Dan, let me ask you a question.

You know that in 1988 that Danny Lutz called up Kaplan and offered to tell him how his parents concocted the Amityville horror. Of course, in exchange for money.

That's Danny Lutz who was there at the time they were in the house claiming to Kaplan (of all people) that it was a hoax!

Your thoughts please...

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Dan the Damned » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:17 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
The photo taken of the book is in this forum. I don't remember the thread it was on but DC Fan & Sherbetto and I were discussing it. As I stated I don't know who took it?
You, DC and Sherb were discussing it, and none of you knew who took the photo, or its story? Well, when you find the thread, let me know, and I'll see if it's the one I'm thinking about.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Dan, Kathy said in the 700 Club interview that the front door was blown off from the inside and checked out by authorities who couldn't explain it? Now later on George changed this and said it was the screen door. They wouldn't have called anyone to check a screen door. Chris said back in 2011 (I believe) that the incident Kathy mentioned never happened. That is three different Lutzes saying three different things!?
You are misquoting Kathy. She said "it blew out" not "was blown off." And that could be consistent with what George said, and with the possible theory that I wrote to you the other day (about the door being somehow forced to open backwards, damaging the storm door in front of it).

Did Chris say there was no incident with the front door? I am unaware of this and am interested to hear his comments in context. Show me where I can find this. I kinda stopped listening to Chris' interviews years ago because he would never give any specific stories, and his interviews were frustrating to listen to.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
You're right they wouldn't need proof but my thought is they could've taken a photo or two of something just for the record.
No. There is no "record" to speak of at this point. This is a family who has experienced a bunch of weird crap at their home and decided to leave temporarily hoping to get it fixed somehow in order to move back in and enjoy the rest of their lives in Amityville.

Your insistence that they should have taken photographs only makes sense if they felt the need to prove this to someone. And they didn't.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Plus they felt the need to get "self help" tapes made upon leaving the house to have a record of their experiences, obviously for later purposes (and we know what for).
Yes. After they left the house, they were getting their heads together about just what the hell happened at that house. They talked about the various incidents over the past month, and they recorded that.

Don't know what you mean by "and we know what for." Explain it, if you have a stance to defend.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Now Dan you know that they had a series of meeting with Weber and you know what they discussed. Your take on that?
You can read my take on that here: http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truth/contract.html
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Yes, Anson later on admitted it when fronted about his use of fictionalizing.
Right. As I said, this practice is a dirty little secret in the publishing industry. Anson probably thought no one would give two sh*ts since this was just a silly tale about a supposedly haunted house. No one knew it would become a massive best-seller. No one knew there was going to be a big controversy where people would see that the type of car was wrong and start screaming about how this was proof that the Lutzes couldn't keep their own story straight.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm
Yes, Roxanne said hundreds & hundreds of changes and that is not true! Her husband and his book is more accurate and I'm not posting all the pages concerning these changes. You've read the book. Anson wrote the book based on the tapes George & Kathy gave him. And who were these people whom he interviewed? Can these individuals corroborate their claims? And Kaplan actually discussed this with Anson who responded by saying that he was given a job to do and write a story based on these claims. If you care to read the dialogue exchange between Kaplan & Anson, you'll find it rather amusing.
I don't get you. You acknowledge that I've read Kaplan's book, but then you suggest that I read the exchange between Kaplan and Anson. Well yeah, I have -- because I've read the book (as you noted)...
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm
Yes, Roxanne said hundreds & hundreds of changes and that is not true! Her husband and his book is more accurate and I'm not posting all the pages concerning these changes. You've read the book.
Kaplan listed 27 changes between the 1st printing of the hardcover and the Bantam paperback. Not "hundreds and hundreds" as his wife claimed, and definitely not as you posted yesterday: "that same book was later exposed with countless errors (nonsense), I think it was like 116 before we got to the demonic pig?"

Here are some sillier examples of Kaplan's "astonishing list of inconsistencies":
  • Page 16 & 17 HC, page 23 PB: The sentence, "He seldom read the news when he picked up a paper, only 'Broom Hilda' and 'Peanuts'" has been changed to, "He seldom read the news when he picked up a paper, only looking for items of special interest."
  • In the HC, Father Mancuso's car is a blue Vega, but in the PB it has changed to a tan Ford!
  • Page 17 HC, page 24 & 25 PB: In the HC, Mancuso plans to have dinner with his mother at her "home in Queens." In the paperback she has a "house in Nassau"
  • Page 41 HC, page 55 PB: Again in relation to Father Mancuso, the phrase "cases on his court calendar" has changed to "items on his busy calendar"
  • Page 45 HC, page 65 PB: Oh, what a tangled web we weave...! Our good friend Sgt. Cammaroto is now being called "Zammataro."
What I find interesting is that the lion's share of changes have to do with Father Ray. The Lutzes didn't even know about Father Ray's experiences at the time. So it would seem to me that Father Ray read the book and at some point must have demanded that these corrections be made in future printings.

Nothing to do with the Lutzes. Not an example of "the Lutzes not being able to keep their story straight." But perhaps an example of Jay Anson being a bit sloppy, or, as with the mentioning of "Broom Hilda," Anson innocently attempting to humanize Father Ray in a manner which Father Ray took offense.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm
Anson wrote the book based on the tapes George & Kathy gave him. And who were these people whom he interviewed? Can these individuals corroborate their claims?
Anson interviewed Father Ray and the Warrens. I'm sure there were others, but I don't have that info in front of me right now. Perhaps if you fleshed-out your point about "Anson not doing any investigating" I might be inclined to search. But honestly, I don't know if you mean "Anson should have investigated whether or not the story was true" or what. Is that what you mean?

Father Ray has not been heard from in decades (and presumed to be dead), but he appeared in that 1979 episode of "In Search Of." He told what happened to himself, mostly. He wasn't living in the house with the Lutzes, so not sure what, exactly, he could corroborate.

The Warrens, as you may guess, wholeheartedly support the Lutzes' story. But again, they did not live in the house with them, or even know them until after-the-fact; so not sure what aspects of the story anyone is able to corroborate here.

But since you are asking about corroboration, then I'm going to assume that you feel Jay Anson's job was to investigate the Lutzes' claims to see if the haunting was real or a hoax. And as you already know from Kaplan's book, Jay Anson said himself that this was not his job. His book "The Amityville Horror" is not an investigation into whether the haunting was real or faked -- it is a book attempting to describe what happened to the Lutz family when they lived in that home.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm
Dan, let me ask you a question.

You know that in 1988 that Danny Lutz called up Kaplan and offered to tell him how his parents concocted the Amityville horror. Of course, in exchange for money.

That's Danny Lutz who was there at the time they were in the house claiming to Kaplan (of all people) that it was a hoax!

Your thoughts please...
I've heard this claim before. But where is the proof that this phone call took place? Was the phone call real? If so, was it the real Daniel Lutz or an imposter? How much money was asked for? Kaplan had a hard-on for proving the haunting was a fake. Would he really refuse to pay Daniel for the proof he's been seeking for decades?

I tend not to believe this claim of the phone call. I notice Roxanne failed to mention it during the hour-long interview that started this thread off. So what's the genesis of this story? Was it claimed directly by the Kaplans somewhere?

jimmysmokes
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Posts: 611

Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:17 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
The photo taken of the book is in this forum. I don't remember the thread it was on but DC Fan & Sherbetto and I were discussing it. As I stated I don't know who took it?
You, DC and Sherb were discussing it, and none of you knew who took the photo, or its story? Well, when you find the thread, let me know, and I'll see if it's the one I'm thinking about.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Dan, Kathy said in the 700 Club interview that the front door was blown off from the inside and checked out by authorities who couldn't explain it? Now later on George changed this and said it was the screen door. They wouldn't have called anyone to check a screen door. Chris said back in 2011 (I believe) that the incident Kathy mentioned never happened. That is three different Lutzes saying three different things!?
You are misquoting Kathy. She said "it blew out" not "was blown off." And that could be consistent with what George said, and with the possible theory that I wrote to you the other day (about the door being somehow forced to open backwards, damaging the storm door in front of it).

Did Chris say there was no incident with the front door? I am unaware of this and am interested to hear his comments in context. Show me where I can find this. I kinda stopped listening to Chris' interviews years ago because he would never give any specific stories, and his interviews were frustrating to listen to.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
You're right they wouldn't need proof but my thought is they could've taken a photo or two of something just for the record.
No. There is no "record" to speak of at this point. This is a family who has experienced a bunch of weird crap at their home and decided to leave temporarily hoping to get it fixed somehow in order to move back in and enjoy the rest of their lives in Amityville.

Your insistence that they should have taken photographs only makes sense if they felt the need to prove this to someone. And they didn't.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Plus they felt the need to get "self help" tapes made upon leaving the house to have a record of their experiences, obviously for later purposes (and we know what for).
Yes. After they left the house, they were getting their heads together about just what the hell happened at that house. They talked about the various incidents over the past month, and they recorded that.

Don't know what you mean by "and we know what for." Explain it, if you have a stance to defend.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Now Dan you know that they had a series of meeting with Weber and you know what they discussed. Your take on that?
You can read my take on that here: http://www.amityvillefaq.com/truth/contract.html
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm
Yes, Anson later on admitted it when fronted about his use of fictionalizing.
Right. As I said, this practice is a dirty little secret in the publishing industry. Anson probably thought no one would give two sh*ts since this was just a silly tale about a supposedly haunted house. No one knew it would become a massive best-seller. No one knew there was going to be a big controversy where people would see that the type of car was wrong and start screaming about how this was proof that the Lutzes couldn't keep their own story straight.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm
Yes, Roxanne said hundreds & hundreds of changes and that is not true! Her husband and his book is more accurate and I'm not posting all the pages concerning these changes. You've read the book. Anson wrote the book based on the tapes George & Kathy gave him. And who were these people whom he interviewed? Can these individuals corroborate their claims? And Kaplan actually discussed this with Anson who responded by saying that he was given a job to do and write a story based on these claims. If you care to read the dialogue exchange between Kaplan & Anson, you'll find it rather amusing.
I don't get you. You acknowledge that I've read Kaplan's book, but then you suggest that I read the exchange between Kaplan and Anson. Well yeah, I have -- because I've read the book (as you noted)...
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm
Yes, Roxanne said hundreds & hundreds of changes and that is not true! Her husband and his book is more accurate and I'm not posting all the pages concerning these changes. You've read the book.
Kaplan listed 27 changes between the 1st printing of the hardcover and the Bantam paperback. Not "hundreds and hundreds" as his wife claimed, and definitely not as you posted yesterday: "that same book was later exposed with countless errors (nonsense), I think it was like 116 before we got to the demonic pig?"

Here are some sillier examples of Kaplan's "astonishing list of inconsistencies":
  • Page 16 & 17 HC, page 23 PB: The sentence, "He seldom read the news when he picked up a paper, only 'Broom Hilda' and 'Peanuts'" has been changed to, "He seldom read the news when he picked up a paper, only looking for items of special interest."
  • In the HC, Father Mancuso's car is a blue Vega, but in the PB it has changed to a tan Ford!
  • Page 17 HC, page 24 & 25 PB: In the HC, Mancuso plans to have dinner with his mother at her "home in Queens." In the paperback she has a "house in Nassau"
  • Page 41 HC, page 55 PB: Again in relation to Father Mancuso, the phrase "cases on his court calendar" has changed to "items on his busy calendar"
  • Page 45 HC, page 65 PB: Oh, what a tangled web we weave...! Our good friend Sgt. Cammaroto is now being called "Zammataro."
What I find interesting is that the lion's share of changes have to do with Father Ray. The Lutzes didn't even know about Father Ray's experiences at the time. So it would seem to me that Father Ray read the book and at some point must have demanded that these corrections be made in future printings.

Nothing to do with the Lutzes. Not an example of "the Lutzes not being able to keep their story straight." But perhaps an example of Jay Anson being a bit sloppy, or, as with the mentioning of "Broom Hilda," Anson innocently attempting to humanize Father Ray in a manner which Father Ray took offense.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm
Anson wrote the book based on the tapes George & Kathy gave him. And who were these people whom he interviewed? Can these individuals corroborate their claims?
Anson interviewed Father Ray and the Warrens. I'm sure there were others, but I don't have that info in front of me right now. Perhaps if you fleshed-out your point about "Anson not doing any investigating" I might be inclined to search. But honestly, I don't know if you mean "Anson should have investigated whether or not the story was true" or what. Is that what you mean?

Father Ray has not been heard from in decades (and presumed to be dead), but he appeared in that 1979 episode of "In Search Of." He told what happened to himself, mostly. He wasn't living in the house with the Lutzes, so not sure what, exactly, he could corroborate.

The Warrens, as you may guess, wholeheartedly support the Lutzes' story. But again, they did not live in the house with them, or even know them until after-the-fact; so not sure what aspects of the story anyone is able to corroborate here.

But since you are asking about corroboration, then I'm going to assume that you feel Jay Anson's job was to investigate the Lutzes' claims to see if the haunting was real or a hoax. And as you already know from Kaplan's book, Jay Anson said himself that this was not his job. His book "The Amityville Horror" is not an investigation into whether the haunting was real or faked -- it is a book attempting to describe what happened to the Lutz family when they lived in that home.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm
Dan, let me ask you a question.

You know that in 1988 that Danny Lutz called up Kaplan and offered to tell him how his parents concocted the Amityville horror. Of course, in exchange for money.

That's Danny Lutz who was there at the time they were in the house claiming to Kaplan (of all people) that it was a hoax!

Your thoughts please...
I've heard this claim before. But where is the proof that this phone call took place? Was the phone call real? If so, was it the real Daniel Lutz or an imposter? How much money was asked for? Kaplan had a hard-on for proving the haunting was a fake. Would he really refuse to pay Daniel for the proof he's been seeking for decades?

I tend not to believe this claim of the phone call. I notice Roxanne failed to mention it during the hour-long interview that started this thread off. So what's the genesis of this story? Was it claimed directly by the Kaplans somewhere?
Kaplan said he received the phone call from a Lutz son. I read that it was Danny on a site the other day. It's in his book. The Lutz male also said that George had run off with the profits from the book and he needed money to help his mother whom was very sick at the time. Imposter, no I don't think so but I can see why you choose not believe it.

"Not an investigation as to whether on not the hauntings were real", Anson and his book. :lol: Boy you ain't kidding!

Oh The Warrens wholeheartedly supported the Lutz story! You said in an earlier post that you didn't believe much of their claims but this one you do? Gotcha :roll:

I wasn't aware the Warrens were present at the home during the Lutzes tenure? His interviewing them does nothing to support their claims. But you're free to believe and the Father Ray character I find ridiculous.

I posted Chris making the statement in here several years ago. I guess I'll have to dig it up for you but what is the point? You stopped listening to him years ago! You find listening to him frustrating? Hmm, ok?

Micky Sexton (Kathy's sister) wrote a book claiming that old George was heavily into the occult and had planned to buy the house and say it was haunted before they moved in. And yeah yeah, I know in your world no one tells the truth about the Amityville claims except George & Kathy! Anyway you now have a third family member telling of George's dabbling in the occult, etc. Something George claimed to have NO knowledge of?

Hmm? Once again this leaves us at a crossroads so to speak on who is telling truth here?
Last edited by jimmysmokes on Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimmysmokes
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:02 pm

Yes Dan I've seen the William Weber page you posted. What is your point?

Dan, The Lutzes claimed the forces at 112 Ocean Avenue followed them when they left the house. To Kathy's mother's house then on to California & Arizona.

Before :lol: I get into this any further, do you believe them? Did the forces follow them?

jimmysmokes
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:08 pm

Here's one Dan. I'll find the other one for you. You might want to read what Chris says in this one.

http://www.ghosttheory.com/2011/11/08/c ... rror-house

jimmysmokes
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:15 pm

LOL I just keep finding them

Remember the "debunking" term you got upset about Dan? Just have a look on whom is "debunking"?

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... le-horror/

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:29 pm

OUCH! Chris calls Anson's book BULLSH!T :oops:

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/a- ... se-6450983

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Dan the Damned » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Kaplan said he received the phone call from a Lutz son. I read that it was Danny on a site the other day. It's in his book. The Lutz male also said that George had run off with the profits from the book and he needed money to help his mother whom was very sick at the time.
Ah, I see. Yes, it is mentioned in Kaplan's book. I didn't think it was since Kaplan's book was published in 1995 and you posted that this phone call took place in 1998. But Kaplan's book says it happened in 1988.

You make a lot of mistakes and you misquote people. I guess I should dismiss everything you say because of that (as this seems to be the standard you and Kaplan assign to the Lutzes). :rotate:

Here is what Kaplan wrote:
It was around this same time (that the fourth book came out) that we received a phone call from a bitter young man claiming to be the son of Kathy Lutz (George's stepson) – one of the boys who had lived in Amityville with George and Kathy during those infamous 18-28 days of terror. The caller said that he was willing to tell his side of how the Lutzes fabricated the story, but that he expected some financial remuneration. Young "Lutz" said that he needed the money for his mother Kathy, who he claimed was very ill and financially destitute, having been abused and then abandoned by George who allegedly ran off with all the profits from the books. When asked how he felt about the hoax, the young man would only say that he was tired of being used by George and that he wanted to get back at him and help his mother at the same time. Roxanne and I of course expressed interest in talking with him, but when we told him that we could not afford to pay for the information, we never heard from the "Lutz boy" again.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Imposter, no I don't think so but I can see why you choose not believe it.
If you read Kaplan's own words, you'll see that even Kaplan wasn't sure if this phone caller was legit. He says "a bitter young man claiming to be the son of Kathy Lutz" and later he puts "Lutz" in quotes (denoting that it is alleged). He clearly is not sure if this was one of the Lutzes or not. But I can understand your zeal in wanting to believe it. 8-)

Being written about in Kaplan's book, and seeing how Kaplan was openly suspicious of the phone call does give it more gravitas. I thought this was simply an internet rumor. Could this phone call have been legit? I tend to doubt it, but maybe it was. However, there are a few things to consider:
  • Both Danny and Chris have said the haunting was real (their complaint is that Anson's book also contained some bullsh*t).
  • If Kathy was abused and abandoned by George, why would she agree to appear beside him in the History's Mysteries documentary, where they reportedly sat together for hours being interviewed about the haunting? Talk about awkward. Why sit next to a guy (who abused and abandoned you) for hours just to support a story which that same guy is the only one benefiting financially from?
  • If George abused Kathy, strange that Missy (Kathy's daughter) would stand by him over the years.
So while I tend not to believe this incident, I don't see how it would change anything even if it were true. Though I would still question why Kathy would agree to do that History's Mysteries interview session if she was abused by George. Then again, it's no secret that Kathy's boys had a deep resentment towards George from the start. So I can see them exaggerating certain claims.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Oh The Warrens wholeheartedly supported the Lutz story! You said in an earlier post that you didn't believe much of their claims but this one you do?
You asked if the people that Anson interviewed corroborated the Lutzes' claims. And I replied by saying the Warrens supported the Lutzes' story, but since they weren't there during the haunting, I'm not sure they could actually corroborate anything.

I said nothing about believing the Warrens' claims. And I stand by my earlier comment that I have serious doubts as to the credibility of the Warrens. There is no contradiction.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
I wasn't aware the Warrens were present at the home during the Lutzes tenure?
That's what I originally said yesterday.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
I posted Chris making the statement in here several years ago. I guess I'll have to dig it up for you but what is the point? You stopped listening to him years point? You stopped listening to him years ago! You find listening to him frustrating? Hmm, ok?
Back when he was doing a lot of interviews, yes, I stopped listening to them because he would just ramble on about a bunch of nonsense. He wouldn't give any details about anything. When asked about specifics, he would answer with "you'll have to read my upcoming book" or "see my upcoming movie" or what have you.

Yes, listening to an hour-long interview and not hearing any specific stories or details is one big irritating waste of time. And when subsequent interviews follow the same path, I find it frustrating. Bait and switch.

I know you'd love to twist my words to mean something else here. I can hear the cogs clanking away in that little brain of yours. But no. Sorry. "Frustrating" because he rambles and because he refuses to give specifics and because each interview is described as "him revealing the truth" when, in fact, pretty much nothing is revealed (except maybe that he saw a mysterious dark shape approaching his bed one night, and, oh yes, his continuous assertions that the haunting was very real (just not the exact same as in Anson's book).
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Micky Sexton (Kathy's sister) wrote a book claiming that old George was heavily into the occult and had planned to buy the house and say it was haunted before they moved in. And yeah yeah, I know in your world no one tells the truth about the Amityville claims except George & Kathy! Anyway you now have a third family member telling of George's dabbling in the occult, etc. Something George claimed to have NO knowledge of?

Hmm? Once again this leaves us at a crossroads so to speak on who is telling truth here?
We have an 8-page thread on this forum from 3 years ago where this book was discussed at length. Sexton's book is even more outlandish than Anson's original "Amityville Horror," with claims of her rising from the dead in the morgue, and George drugging his family, and her (Sexton) being visited by a demon that she single-handedly casts back down to hell!

Yeah. Who is telling the truth. So hard to tell... :roll:
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Yes Dan I've seen the William Weber page you posted. What is your point?
What?!? You asked what my opinion was on the meeting with Weber and the Lutzes. And I linked you to an article that I wrote on that exact subject. An article that very clearly and very thoroughly answers the question that you posed to me. And your response is "what's your point"?!? Are you on drugs???

I mean, really! I quoted you asking me for my opinion on the meeting. Followed by me saying how you can read my opinion on this here (followed by a link to the article). How could I make it any clearer than that? What's wrong with you?

As for the links to the three articles about Chris Lutz that you gave -- yes, that one from The Seattle Times did say the following:
Some of the alleged incidents detailed in "The Amityville Horror" book — such as unseen forces ripping the front door from its hinges — never occurred, Quaratino said.
Thanks for that. Yes, it is strange that Chris would seemingly go against something his mother said was true. For the boys loved their mother dearly, and despised George.

I wish this was an actual quote from Chris, however. I wish there was more subtext given. I'm left wondering if Chris really did say the incident with the front door never happened, or that it didn't happen "as described by Jay Anson in the book." I know how Chris can say things, and I can picture the reporter hearing one thing and assuming he meant something else.

We're back in Kaplan territory here -- treating the words of a reporter as that of the actual person. Chris gave a bunch of podcast interviews in recent years. You'd think he'd mention the front door in one of them. However, I can understand you not wanting to hunt this down, as I suspect listening to a bunch of Chris Lutz interviews can be frustrating.

Still, I really need more information to base an opinion on this one. Then again, as I have said all along, that whole incident with the front door is a bit of a mystery to me.

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Brendan72
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Brendan72 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:06 am

Dan the Damned wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Kaplan said he received the phone call from a Lutz son. I read that it was Danny on a site the other day. It's in his book. The Lutz male also said that George had run off with the profits from the book and he needed money to help his mother whom was very sick at the time.
Ah, I see. Yes, it is mentioned in Kaplan's book. I didn't think it was since Kaplan's book was published in 1995 and you posted that this phone call took place in 1998. But Kaplan's book says it happened in 1988.
It would have also been impossible for Stephen Kaplan to have had the conversation in 1998 as by that point he had been deceased for three years.
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Amit Y Ville » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:24 am

Maybe the topic name should be changed or split into another, it's been derailed. Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum does not fit into the topic of one person denying the whole case and Dan having to explain everything. :fp:
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:49 am

Dan the Damned wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm
Could this phone call have been legit? I tend to doubt it, but maybe it was.
Christopher told me it was Danny who called Kaplan - and after seeing My Amityville Horror I can see him telling a bunch of anti-George crap for a quick payday.

I guess Eric must have asked him about it, although it's not bought up in his film.

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:45 pm

Brendan72 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:06 am
Dan the Damned wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Kaplan said he received the phone call from a Lutz son. I read that it was Danny on a site the other day. It's in his book. The Lutz male also said that George had run off with the profits from the book and he needed money to help his mother whom was very sick at the time.
Ah, I see. Yes, it is mentioned in Kaplan's book. I didn't think it was since Kaplan's book was published in 1995 and you posted that this phone call took place in 1998. But Kaplan's book says it happened in 1988.
It would have also been impossible for Stephen Kaplan to have had the conversation in 1998 as by that point he had been deceased for three years.
Yeah that was a typo if I did, 1988 was the year. My bad

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:53 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:49 am
Dan the Damned wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm
Could this phone call have been legit? I tend to doubt it, but maybe it was.
Christopher told me it was Danny who called Kaplan - and after seeing My Amityville Horror I can see him telling a bunch of anti-George crap for a quick payday.

I guess Eric must have asked him about it, although it's not bought up in his film.
Well Dan, there you go! "Quick payday", :lol: Imagine that?

Shout to Sherbetto for finally bringing this out

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:30 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Kaplan said he received the phone call from a Lutz son. I read that it was Danny on a site the other day. It's in his book. The Lutz male also said that George had run off with the profits from the book and he needed money to help his mother whom was very sick at the time.
Ah, I see. Yes, it is mentioned in Kaplan's book. I didn't think it was since Kaplan's book was published in 1995 and you posted that this phone call took place in 1998. But Kaplan's book says it happened in 1988.

You make a lot of mistakes and you misquote people. I guess I should dismiss everything you say because of that (as this seems to be the standard you and Kaplan assign to the Lutzes). :rotate:

Here is what Kaplan wrote:
It was around this same time (that the fourth book came out) that we received a phone call from a bitter young man claiming to be the son of Kathy Lutz (George's stepson) – one of the boys who had lived in Amityville with George and Kathy during those infamous 18-28 days of terror. The caller said that he was willing to tell his side of how the Lutzes fabricated the story, but that he expected some financial remuneration. Young "Lutz" said that he needed the money for his mother Kathy, who he claimed was very ill and financially destitute, having been abused and then abandoned by George who allegedly ran off with all the profits from the books. When asked how he felt about the hoax, the young man would only say that he was tired of being used by George and that he wanted to get back at him and help his mother at the same time. Roxanne and I of course expressed interest in talking with him, but when we told him that we could not afford to pay for the information, we never heard from the "Lutz boy" again.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Imposter, no I don't think so but I can see why you choose not believe it.
If you read Kaplan's own words, you'll see that even Kaplan wasn't sure if this phone caller was legit. He says "a bitter young man claiming to be the son of Kathy Lutz" and later he puts "Lutz" in quotes (denoting that it is alleged). He clearly is not sure if this was one of the Lutzes or not. But I can understand your zeal in wanting to believe it. 8-)

Being written about in Kaplan's book, and seeing how Kaplan was openly suspicious of the phone call does give it more gravitas. I thought this was simply an internet rumor. Could this phone call have been legit? I tend to doubt it, but maybe it was. However, there are a few things to consider:
  • Both Danny and Chris have said the haunting was real (their complaint is that Anson's book also contained some bullsh*t).
  • If Kathy was abused and abandoned by George, why would she agree to appear beside him in the History's Mysteries documentary, where they reportedly sat together for hours being interviewed about the haunting? Talk about awkward. Why sit next to a guy (who abused and abandoned you) for hours just to support a story which that same guy is the only one benefiting financially from?
  • If George abused Kathy, strange that Missy (Kathy's daughter) would stand by him over the years.
So while I tend not to believe this incident, I don't see how it would change anything even if it were true. Though I would still question why Kathy would agree to do that History's Mysteries interview session if she was abused by George. Then again, it's no secret that Kathy's boys had a deep resentment towards George from the start. So I can see them exaggerating certain claims.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Oh The Warrens wholeheartedly supported the Lutz story! You said in an earlier post that you didn't believe much of their claims but this one you do?
You asked if the people that Anson interviewed corroborated the Lutzes' claims. And I replied by saying the Warrens supported the Lutzes' story, but since they weren't there during the haunting, I'm not sure they could actually corroborate anything.

I said nothing about believing the Warrens' claims. And I stand by my earlier comment that I have serious doubts as to the credibility of the Warrens. There is no contradiction.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
I wasn't aware the Warrens were present at the home during the Lutzes tenure?
That's what I originally said yesterday.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
I posted Chris making the statement in here several years ago. I guess I'll have to dig it up for you but what is the point? You stopped listening to him years point? You stopped listening to him years ago! You find listening to him frustrating? Hmm, ok?
Back when he was doing a lot of interviews, yes, I stopped listening to them because he would just ramble on about a bunch of nonsense. He wouldn't give any details about anything. When asked about specifics, he would answer with "you'll have to read my upcoming book" or "see my upcoming movie" or what have you.

Yes, listening to an hour-long interview and not hearing any specific stories or details is one big irritating waste of time. And when subsequent interviews follow the same path, I find it frustrating. Bait and switch.

I know you'd love to twist my words to mean something else here. I can hear the cogs clanking away in that little brain of yours. But no. Sorry. "Frustrating" because he rambles and because he refuses to give specifics and because each interview is described as "him revealing the truth" when, in fact, pretty much nothing is revealed (except maybe that he saw a mysterious dark shape approaching his bed one night, and, oh yes, his continuous assertions that the haunting was very real (just not the exact same as in Anson's book).
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Micky Sexton (Kathy's sister) wrote a book claiming that old George was heavily into the occult and had planned to buy the house and say it was haunted before they moved in. And yeah yeah, I know in your world no one tells the truth about the Amityville claims except George & Kathy! Anyway you now have a third family member telling of George's dabbling in the occult, etc. Something George claimed to have NO knowledge of?

Hmm? Once again this leaves us at a crossroads so to speak on who is telling truth here?
We have an 8-page thread on this forum from 3 years ago where this book was discussed at length. Sexton's book is even more outlandish than Anson's original "Amityville Horror," with claims of her rising from the dead in the morgue, and George drugging his family, and her (Sexton) being visited by a demon that she single-handedly casts back down to hell!

Yeah. Who is telling the truth. So hard to tell... :roll:
jimmysmokes wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:53 pm
Yes Dan I've seen the William Weber page you posted. What is your point?
What?!? You asked what my opinion was on the meeting with Weber and the Lutzes. And I linked you to an article that I wrote on that exact subject. An article that very clearly and very thoroughly answers the question that you posed to me. And your response is "what's your point"?!? Are you on drugs???

I mean, really! I quoted you asking me for my opinion on the meeting. Followed by me saying how you can read my opinion on this here (followed by a link to the article). How could I make it any clearer than that? What's wrong with you?

As for the links to the three articles about Chris Lutz that you gave -- yes, that one from The Seattle Times did say the following:
Some of the alleged incidents detailed in "The Amityville Horror" book — such as unseen forces ripping the front door from its hinges — never occurred, Quaratino said.
Thanks for that. Yes, it is strange that Chris would seemingly go against something his mother said was true. For the boys loved their mother dearly, and despised George.

I wish this was an actual quote from Chris, however. I wish there was more subtext given. I'm left wondering if Chris really did say the incident with the front door never happened, or that it didn't happen "as described by Jay Anson in the book." I know how Chris can say things, and I can picture the reporter hearing one thing and assuming he meant something else.

We're back in Kaplan territory here -- treating the words of a reporter as that of the actual person. Chris gave a bunch of podcast interviews in recent years. You'd think he'd mention the front door in one of them. However, I can understand you not wanting to hunt this down, as I suspect listening to a bunch of Chris Lutz interviews can be frustrating.

Still, I really need more information to base an opinion on this one. Then again, as I have said all along, that whole incident with the front door is a bit of a mystery to me.
I don't know what more info can be brought up concerning the door? One can choose one of three claims I suppose?

Yeah I posted his quote about the door on here before, I'll try and find it again, providing it wasn't the same article?

What I meant on the Weber/Lutz thing is it's what I've seen it before and didn't bring any new light on the whole matter of them meeting with him over a possible book and crime scene photos and what he claims is where they started inventing the story? Apologies, I didn't word correctly!

I had Sextons book before it came out and before the thread was written in here. I wrote a huge spoiler on it and I believe my friend sherbetto removed it or hid it? :naughty: Yes there was some silliness in that book but you did read about her claims concerning George & the haunting/occult?? That's 3 total Dan! Don't get mad I'm just telling you what is out there.

And I don't know what you're confused on as to Chris in the links I posted? He states that Ansons book is BS and says that the "haunting" was caused by George and his involvement in the occult, not that they moved in and the house was haunted. As we know, other family members claimed pretty much the same things.

As to the abuse Kathy might have suffered from George, I have no clue to that nor will comment. Only the kids could've witnessed that, if it happened at all, so that's their biz. I will refer you (and others) to Kathy's 700 Club interview where she discusses her unhappiness at a certain time in her marriage to George. I know we have some children on here so I won't go into further details concerning her unhappiness but it's pretty bad!

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Brendan72 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:10 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:49 am
Dan the Damned wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:17 pm
Could this phone call have been legit? I tend to doubt it, but maybe it was.
Christopher told me it was Danny who called Kaplan - and after seeing My Amityville Horror I can see him telling a bunch of anti-George crap for a quick payday.

I guess Eric must have asked him about it, although it's not bought up in his film.
I would venture a guess and assume if Eric had raised it he probably would have gotten a response/reaction similar to the 'taking a polygraph test' question.
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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Dan the Damned » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:32 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:30 pm
I had Sextons book before it came out and before the thread was written in here. I wrote a huge spoiler on it and I believe my friend sherbetto removed it or hid it?
Sometimes there are multiple threads that get created which discuss the exact same issue. So we frequently combine threads. I bet that's what happened to your "spoilers" thread. It probably got merged into the main thread, making you think it got deleted. That's my guess as you brought this up in that same thread a few years ago, and Sherb responded by saying he didn't delete it and that your post was on page 2 of that thread.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:30 pm
Yes there was some silliness in that book but you did read about her claims concerning George & the haunting/occult?? That's 3 total Dan! Don't get mad I'm just telling you what is out there.
I haven't read her book. Sherb has, and he wrote a pretty good recap of it. I trust Sherb's judgement. If he thinks she's a loon, I'll go along with that.

I don't know what you mean by "that's 3" so I'll just ignore it until you phrase it differently or add some more details.
jimmysmokes wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:30 pm
And I don't know what you're confused on as to Chris in the links I posted? He states that Ansons book is BS and says that the "haunting" was caused by George and his involvement in the occult, not that they moved in and the house was haunted. As we know, other family members claimed pretty much the same things.
Well, the whole thing with Chris is that you said he claimed the incident with the front door did not happen. I asked where you heard that, and you post links to various articles, only one of which mentioned the front door. And it wasn't a direct quote from Chris -- it was the reporter summarizing what Chris supposedly said.

In my last post I mentioned that this has been a big problem in the past. Reporters have frequently misquoted not only the Lutzes, but even Kaplan. Because they don't view this as a serious news story. They consider this a human interest story. A fluff piece. And they get careless.

It's possible that Chris did make this claim. But I would like to see a quote and hopefully see how he worded it. Hopefully see some more context.
Amit Y Ville wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:24 am
Maybe the topic name should be changed or split into another, it's been derailed. Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum does not fit into the topic of one person denying the whole case and Dan having to explain everything. :fp:
I know. It does seem like we're going everywhere. And all I see that I'm doing is rewriting points that I've made several times over in the past on this very forum.

But Jimmy's views seem to be coming almost directly from Kaplan's book. At one point, when we're talking about the changes in later editions of Anson's book, Jimmy even says, "First time I read the a later printing, it was far from what I had originally read." Too funny, if you realize that in Kaplan's book, Kaplan wrote almost the exact same thing: "There are so many words omitted or changed here that it’s hard to believe this is the same book!"

Not only funny that they say the same thing, but also funny that they can't believe it's the same book just because the type of car the priest drove was changed, and the city the priest's mother's house lived in is different, and stuff like that. The whole story is exactly the same, but tiny details (mainly concerning the priest) were different. And they think it's a whole different book? :roll:

In any case, yes, we're going all over the place, but we're still pretty solidly in Kaplan territory.

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:18 pm

Dan? You didn't answer my question on the Lutzes and their claims that the forces left the house and followed them to Kathy's mothers then to California & Phoenix. What do you believe on this?

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by Dan the Damned » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:06 pm

Do I believe the incidents out west really happened? There aren't a lot of details about the "post-Amityville" incidents, so it's hard for me to say. All you have is their word for it. It's easier to judge the Amityville stuff because it is better documented.

Do I believe the incidents out west were caused by the same forces that the family faced in Amityville? Who knows. I mean, that would be the natural assumption (if you believe the haunting was real), but who knows for sure.

That would seem to be against the odds for them to move from one haunted house to another haunted house.

Is that an answer?

And how dare you ask me just one question instead of 37...

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:53 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:06 pm
Do I believe the incidents out west really happened? There aren't a lot of details about the "post-Amityville" incidents, so it's hard for me to say. All you have is their word for it. It's easier to judge the Amityville stuff because it is better documented.

Do I believe the incidents out west were caused by the same forces that the family faced in Amityville? Who knows. I mean, that would be the natural assumption (if you believe the haunting was real), but who knows for sure.

That would seem to be against the odds for them to move from one haunted house to another haunted house.

Is that an answer?

And how dare you ask me just one question instead of 37...
We have the books The Amityville Horror II and Amityville The Final Chapter for "documents". Just like The Amityville Horror, we only have their word for it? But since we've seen a little "debunking" on the original, (even by some family members) it's kind of tough to take them at their word isn't it? They did claim though that the forces from the house followed them to Kathy's moms & then on to California & Arizona.

I once in here pinned sherbetto down on this question and got him to admit that the claims in these subsequent books were "pretty much cash-ins"! In layman's terms, crap so to speak. And since sherbetto's "word" is good enough for you, you indeed could say you answered my question here. Thanks

And I didn't need to ask any further questions my friend! We showed that Weber and Kaplan, along with Danny & Chris brought forth the hoax proof as well as some debunking for us all. And I will admit that I learned something too here! "It can be difficult for some to come out of Disneyland"...

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:56 pm

I want to add this here for you all. Might help some of you? Maybe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

My Oh My! Where have I heard these claims before?

Enjoy...

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Re: Roxanne Kaplan Slanders This Forum

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:24 pm

jimmysmokes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:53 pm
We have the books The Amityville Horror II and Amityville The Final Chapter for "documents".

I once in here pinned sherbetto down on this question and got him to admit that the claims in these subsequent books were "pretty much cash-ins"!
I wouldn't use the term "cash-in", but as John G Jones was told to avoid using real names and places (so no lawsuits, unlike the previous book) he went overboard with the fiction, so it's in no way a good account of what happened post-112.

George described these events of having a "half-life" - ie half as strong as in 112. And Christopher remembered way more incidents occurring during this period than he did in Amityville, saying something like, "we were only in that house for a month, but it followed us for years."

But as Dan says, this period has been woefully under-documented.

And you don't need to "pin" us down on anything to get answer! Too much smoke = paranoia? :lol:

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