Lutzs' have several bottle of wine with William Webber

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Victoria Principles
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Lutzs' have several bottle of wine with William Webber

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:19 am

Didn't the Lutzs' deny that they ever had a conversation and wine with William Webber? Didn't they say that George didn't even drink wine?

Interesting comments by Laura DiDio (a haunting beleiver) at about the 8:54 mark of this YouTube video where she says she has a audio tape of the Lutz/Webber meeting and the Lutz's were sobbering up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwDTC2VnanY&NR=1

This maybe more evidence the Lutzs may have stretched the truth a little bit.

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Dan the Damned
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Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:56 am

You pasted a link to the wrong video (some guy in front of the house flipping off cars).

I'm not sure if George was a wine drinker or not, but he certainly had conversations with Weber. In meetings at Kathy's mother's house, the Lutzes told Weber (and his associate Paul Hoffman) the whole story of their experiences in the house. They were going to incorporate their story into the book on the DeFeo case which Weber was planning to write, until the relationship soured due to Weber forcing the Lutzes to do the press conference and then presenting them with a book contract made for suckers.

Let me know when you find the correct link.

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Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:25 am

Here is the right video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTXO8cNo ... ed&search=

Take a listen to the 8:45 mark when Laura DiDio begins to talk.

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Dan the Damned
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Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:16 am

Laura DiDio: I think when they sobered up [unintelligible] the cold light of day they felt, "hmmm," maybe this didn't feel right to them. But in this tape William Weber already had - he was purporting to say, "Hey, we can get movies, books, film rights." He was already talking about percentages and cutting deals.
This statement comes right after a statement by Webber and right before a statement by George. During part of the statement, we see an actress (playing the role of Kathy Lutz) drinking. But without hearing what Laura was saying directly before this statement, its difficult to tell whether she is using the term "sober up" as a metaphor for the Lutzes realizing Weber's deal was bad, or if it was meant to be taken literally, meaning the Lutzes were drunk. For it to come right after a clip of Webber talking about the "many bottles of wine" and to accompany it with the shot of the lady drinking, that could lead the viewer misinterpreting Laura's statement.

I don't know which she meant. But in a 2003 interview, George talked about having friends over to the house: "...so we would have friends come over and they would sit in the kitchen, and we would sit around drinking wine or beer..." This doesn't tell us if they were drinking during their talks with Webber, but it does tell us that they weren't adverse to drinking on occasion.

But now that you mention it, that claim of "George not drinking" does sound vaguely familiar. Let me know if you come across the source of that...

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Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:30 am

Dan the Damned wrote:
Laura DiDio: I think when they sobered up [unintelligible] the cold light of day they felt, "hmmm," maybe this didn't feel right to them. But in this tape William Weber already had - he was purporting to say, "Hey, we can get movies, books, film rights." He was already talking about percentages and cutting deals.
This statement comes right after a statement by Webber and right before a statement by George. During part of the statement, we see an actress (playing the role of Kathy Lutz) drinking. But without hearing what Laura was saying directly before this statement, its difficult to tell whether she is using the term "sober up" as a metaphor for the Lutzes realizing Weber's deal was bad, or if it was meant to be taken literally, meaning the Lutzes were drunk. For it to come right after a clip of Webber talking about the "many bottles of wine" and to accompany it with the shot of the lady drinking, that could lead the viewer misinterpreting Laura's statement.

I don't know which she meant. But in a 2003 interview, George talked about having friends over to the house: "...so we would have friends come over and they would sit in the kitchen, and we would sit around drinking wine or beer..." This doesn't tell us if they were drinking during their talks with Webber, but it does tell us that they weren't adverse to drinking on occasion.

But now that you mention it, that claim of "George not drinking" does sound vaguely familiar. Let me know if you come across the source of that...
I can't find it where George himself said he never drank wine, but this guy (pro haunting) said he did not drink wine.
http://midnight-fire.net/shadows/thecoverup.html
Everybody who truly know George Lutz says that he doesn’t drink wine. But when Stephen Kaplan claims that he did, those claims are persistently repeated, to the point of «if a rumor is repeated often enough, it becomes a truth». Who is, to this day, sustaining that rumor? It seems that for some people the fact that George is a beer drinker, can be used to automatically classify him as a wine drinker as well. To me it’s an important distinction and another important detail.

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Dan the Damned
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Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:41 am

I dunno. I've had several meals with George, but never really noticed if he had wine or beer (or either) during the meal. I just remember him stealing the strawberry off the top of my dessert once...

The quote I gave from the 2003 interview says George, Kathy and their friends drank wine or beer, but of course it doesn't say who drank what.

George was going to introduce me to Laura DiDio, but he never got around to it. If he had, I could ask her, herself, what she meant by her words. From everything I've heard about Laura, I sense she has a strong character, and would be totally truthful.

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Post by Eric Walter » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:29 pm

"So, we would have friends come over and they would sit in the kitchen...and we would sit around drinking wine or beer and you would hear footsteps up overhead walking around."

George Lutz said this in a 2002 interview on the Lou Gentile Show.
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Secrets
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Post by Secrets » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:38 pm

The Warrens claim that the Lutzes did not drink...

From their website:

"Another rumor persists that the Lutz’s lawyer, Attorney Webber, fabricated the story with them over several bottles of wine. Truth be told, the Lutzes didn’t drink and had only a bottle of blessed wine in the house given to them by Father Pecoraro"

George has told that he was drinking a lot during the stay in the house - mostly beer, I believe. When they made the tapes they were also drinking, and George never denied that the wine drinking incident with Weber did happen - just that the bit about making up the story is untrue.

Laura DiDio told that George said something like "I am not proud of this" when he played her the tape of the session with Weber - what that means, I am not sure, but if they were making things up, wouldn't Laura DiDio catch it when she heard the tape?
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Dan the Damned
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Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:26 pm

Thanks Secrets!

So I guess that's another Warrenism to feed to DBIC... :?

And now that you mention it, George also said the following in that 1977 interview (available on the Warrens' site on CD): "One night she turned into an old woman. It was when I was getting up to go out and go to a bar, because I was just tired of waking up at 3:30 in the morning and not being able to get back to sleep."

So another reference of George admitting he drank (unless he went to the bar for the free pretzles).

Or unless the Warrens meant to say George didn't drink wine (not beer)? Could that be, or am I just reaching?

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Re: Lutzs' have several bottle of wine with William Webber

Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:57 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:Didn't the Lutzs' deny that they ever had a conversation and wine with William Webber? Didn't they say that George didn't even drink wine?
He never denied having those conversations with Weber - in fact, it was George and Kathy who contacted him in the first place.

What they always denied is making up the story in front of Weber, especially when he showed them the crime scene photos.

And yes, George drank beer back then.

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Post by devilbustedinct » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:29 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:So I guess that's another Warrenism to feed to DBIC... :?
You said it man, right along with the convicted, self admitted pedophile who "could have never done such a thing. If you knew him, you knew he couldn't hurt a fly." Maybe he never did hurt a fly, but molesting children and blowing your wife's arm off with a shotgun is a tad bit worse...

and the convicted murderer who "never drank, did drugs, and was an all American kid, the type you would want for a son." All the contrary evidence aside, if I had children, I suppose I wouldn't want them to be murderers.

If you want the truth, listen to the Warrens, and then just look at the opposite.

Please, no boo hoos from the Warren fan club, they've had and still have their chance to speak up and prove otherwise.

Seriously, I don't drink wine or beer, but I am always stocked in order to offer to guests....that's reasonable

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Brendan72
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Post by Brendan72 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:22 pm

George saying:
"So, we would have friends come over and they would sit in the kitchen...and we would sit around drinking wine or beer and you would hear footsteps up overhead walking around."
Doesn't mean that George was drinking wine as well, but another explaination could be that he was drinking beer and his friends and maybe Kathy, were the ones drinking wine. If drinking with a group of friends some people may drink beer, while others (probably the women) drank wine.

From the impressions I got of George he didn't strike me as being a person who partakes of wine but rather was a beer drinker. I got the impression that after living in the house and they were still having dramas that George was still drinking - he did say in an interview on Lou Gentile that he was drinking heavily around that time and was "drinking for a few years after that".

Dan the Damned said:
This statement comes right after a statement by Webber and right before a statement by George. During part of the statement, we see an actress (playing the role of Kathy Lutz) drinking.
If this was a recreation done by the History Channel documentaries then that, like most documentary recreations are impressionistic so it is difficult to determine whether Kathy was actually drinking or not.

However I do recall George saying that while they were doing the tapes that both of them were drinking while recording. I think that he mentioned this to explain why the language on the tapes was not aways good.

Secrets said:
Laura DiDio told that George said something like "I am not proud of this" when he played her the tape of the session with Weber - what that means, I am not sure, but if they were making things up, wouldn't Laura DiDio catch it when she heard the tape?
Yes I got the impression from Laura Didio that she seemed to find the Lutz's telling of events very credible as she has often described herself as a "cynical New Yorker" ... the impressions I got of her summation of Weber was the opposite.

The thing also about Weber is that he doesn't come across as honest and reliable and the fact the Lutz's turned down his contract is indicative of him having an ax to grind. Like Kaplan who was initially approached by the Lutz's and then subsequently released from association thereafter for dubious practices the ego, as fragile as it can be for individuals in this situation, was dented.

So I would find things they say less than credible particularly if their opinion is not as dispassionate as say a person who can remain objective towards a certain issue - Kaplan was what Joel Martin described as a person with a "Type-A personality" so he was given to fancy to flying off the handle on many occasions - so Kaplan would be a prime example of this. Didn't mean he was lying but just telling very inaccurate information that he believed at the time to be the truth or his own version of the truth.

Weber's entitled to his opinion and will probably take the bottles of wine version to the grave - but if you give him an interview 5 years from now it will be interesting to see how many bottles of wine he will say the Lutz's drank in that meeting. In one interview it was "a couple" bottles and in another he said something like "literally several bottles". I might be splitting hairs with this difference, but unless Weber was getting sloshed himself and lost count, we will never really know.
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Post by BillyCigars » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:46 pm

Dan the Damned wrote:I dunno. I've had several meals with George, but never really noticed if he had wine or beer (or either) during the meal.
In recent years, he mentioned that he kept Wine for guests but never drank any himself.

In conversation, he once said to me (after what happened), "Who wouldn't drink?" So as noted by others, he didn't ever deny drinking -- he just disagreed with how Weber portrayed it.
devilbustedinct wrote:"...If you want the truth, listen to the Warrens, and then just look at the opposite."
ROFLOL!!
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Dan the Damned
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Post by Dan the Damned » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:55 pm

Good point, Billy. If I went through the haunting, I'd surely piss my pants, so I'd need to refill somehow... :wink:
The thing also about Weber is that he doesn't come across as honest and reliable and the fact the Lutz's turned down his contract is indicative of him having an ax to grind.
Plus another thing that is often overlooked is that Weber didn't sue until after the Lutzes filed suit against him (due to the Good Housekeeping article). So Weber's suit may have been a combination of having an ax to grind plus a childish "you sue me, I'll sue you right back" type of thing.

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Post by Brendan72 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:56 pm

Well it goes hand-in-hand with the highly litigious society we have become particularly back in the 1970's.

Weber's countersuit would be a face-saving tactic. If the Lutz's sued him for the Good Housekeeping article without a countersuit, then a potential explaination for such inaction could mean that he was guilty of fraudulent action (representing Paul Hoffman as a criminologist). So the countersuit could be a diversion of attention away from what he did as being strongly unethical and very damaging to his law firm. And suing the Lutz's for loss of income from the book and movie would of course focus people's attention on the Lutz's, concurrently getting media attention for himself on the Amityville bandwagon.
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Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:31 am

The thing also about Weber is that he doesn't come across as honest and reliable
On the TAPS radio show Rick Moran said Weber was credible for sticking to same story all these years... it's true, he has, but I feel only because he's never been asked questions outside of his cosy "bottles of wine" legend.

It's a pity he settled out of court before Judge Weinstien dealt with him...

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Post by Brendan72 » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:28 am

Being the shrewd lawyer that he was described as in High Hopes he probably settled out of court for that reason - he didn't want it on public record that he did some questionably unethical practices in order to do business with the Lutz's, such as getting Paul Hoffman to pass himself off as a criminologist, and threatening Kathy Lutz into getting George and herself agreeing to do the press conference.
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Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:04 am

Brendan72 wrote:Being the shrewd lawyer that he was described as in High Hopes he probably settled out of court for that reason - he didn't want it on public record that he did some questionably unethical practices in order to do business with the Lutz's, such as getting Paul Hoffman to pass himself off as a criminologist, and threatening Kathy Lutz into getting George and herself agreeing to do the press conference.
William Webber is a very unethical lawyer to me. He obviously doesn't adhere to the lawyer-client confidenciality. He blabs about everything Butch DeFeo told him. He wanted to make money off from his clients murder case while at the same time serving as his client's attourney on appeal. He put his own interests above his clients.

I expect even the lawyer for Bin Ladin to serve his clients interest before his. That is how the western justice system works.

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Post by Brendan72 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:51 pm

I'm afraid the ship called Weber's credibility has not only sailed but it sank on her maiden voyage.
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