Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

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daiichi
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by daiichi » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:46 pm

Did you say you were reading the book? It's in the last chapter. Jay Anson's theory is that "evil" cannot cross water, assuming the Lutzes were okay when they moved to California.
Aha, I've gotten ahead of myself. :clap: I'm going to keep reading. :rotate:

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Dan the Damned
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Dan the Damned » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:28 pm

daiichi wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:20 pm
The Lutzes have also been caught in lies about the narrative, which brings all of their claims into serious question (eg. fruit of the poisonous tree).
Well that's exactly why this forum and website exists -- to examine such claims.

Just saying "they lied" doesn't make it so. Cite examples, although you'll find the answers were most likely already posted here years ago in other threads. I've gone through this forum some time ago and merged threads that were on similar topics and re-named threads to better reflect their content, all to make it easier to search. But if you want to be lazy, just cite some examples of the Lutzes lying and maybe someone will get around to answering you one day...

daiichi
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by daiichi » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:24 pm

Just saying "they lied" doesn't make it so. Cite examples, although you'll find the answers were most likely already posted here years ago in other threads. I've gone through this forum some time ago and merged threads that were on similar topics and re-named threads to better reflect their content, all to make it easier to search. But if you want to be lazy, just cite some examples of the Lutzes lying and maybe someone will get around to answering you one day...
The problem with that is, what exactly are the 'definitive' claims made by George and Kathy? I'm still working my way through Anson's TAH, but I feel like if I cite one of the many paranormal claims made in there, defenders can just dismiss it as a figment of Anson's imagination, and not something G&K ever claimed in their 40+ hours of audiotapes (that nobody has ever heard).

But just a couple of examples off the top of my head...
  • G&K claimed the red room wasn't in any plans of the house, yet it actually was and there was nothing secretive or mysterious about it. Friends of the DeFeo children have said that it was used for storage of toys and they would often play down there.
  • G&K also made claims of doors and other hardware like the stairway bannister getting blown out, but the Cromarty family found no evidence that any of that original hardware had been replaced.
Also, didn't George claim that Kathy's brother Jimmy had been abducted by aliens and never seen from again or something crazy like that? I can't find any specific sources on this, but I recall it being discussed on this forum some time ago.

lostinthe50s81
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by lostinthe50s81 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:09 pm

Yes George and Kathy did say the red room wasn't on the original house plans. I don't recall that ever being proven false

George and Kathy never claimed the red room materialized out of thin air just for them, of course it was there when the defeos lived there. The Lutz's never refuted this. Yes the room IS mysterious because it was located inside a closet and was too small to really be of any real use and was hidden behind a bookshelf

daiichi
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by daiichi » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:48 am

George and Kathy never claimed the red room materialized out of thin air just for them, of course it was there when the defeos lived there. The Lutz's never refuted this. Yes the room IS mysterious because it was located inside a closet and was too small to really be of any real use and was hidden behind a bookshelf
Well I'm not a professional architect so I don't know whether a small alcove like that would necessarily appear on a blueprint, but in the book it was presented as being partially hidden behind some plywood, as if it had been used by a previous owner for some type of secretive or nefarious purpose. :think:

I have areas in my home -- for instance the space under the stairs in my basement -- that would not be considered by the builders as a 'room' per se, but if I chose to, I could place stuff in there for storage and paint the walls red to make it creepy looking. I suspect that a lot of homes, especially older ones likely have many small alcoves and hideaways that for whatever reason were left in place or served some type of legitimate purpose at one time or another.

But the point is, we have witnesses on camera who have clearly stated there was nothing nefarious about the room, and in fact it was used by the DeFeo children to play and store their toys. So perhaps we can't say that G&K exactly lied about any specific points concerning the room (especially since most of their claims come down to their personal experiences and feelings, which can neither be proven or disproven), but it's clear that they misrepresented it either due to their unique perception of reality, or simply for good old fashioned story telling.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:35 pm

daiichi wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:48 am
So perhaps we can't say that G&K exactly lied about any specific points concerning the room (especially since most of their claims come down to their personal experiences and feelings, which can neither be proven or disproven), but it's clear that they misrepresented it either due to their unique perception of reality, or simply for good old fashioned story telling.
Kathy did find it odd that the room was somewhat hidden, but you can blame Jay Anson for the storytelling...

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Brendan72
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Brendan72 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:16 am

Was the red room not on the plans for the house? If not then perhaps the red room might have been part of the original house moved down the street, part of the basement of that house?
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"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
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Red Room
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Red Room » Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:31 am

Brendan72 wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:16 am
Was the red room not on the plans for the house? If not then perhaps the red room might have been part of the original house moved down the street, part of the basement of that house?
If the Red Room's outer walls were construction with concrete blocks, that may be the case. However, based upon pictures that I've looked at including the house's blueprint, the Red Room's outer walls were constructed with wooden studs. This means that the Red Room was built as a small partition room with wooden studs when the house's basement walls were built. I'm not sure when the basement was finished, but I'm certain it wasn't until a couple of years after the house was built since basements back then were used merely as a storage space for mechanical systems. This, of course, could only mean that the Red Room was indeed a small space for mechanical and plumbing systems which was later enclosed by stud walls when the basement was finished.

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Brendan72
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Brendan72 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:23 am

If it was wooded paneling then perhaps it was part of the refurbishment of the basement during the DeFeo era as the reason it was there? Just a guess in any case since apparently Mr DeFeo also let the kids paint the space red?
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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believer
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by believer » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:20 am

Too bad we didn't have any pics or video of the red room.

Oh wait....


Red Room
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Red Room » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:40 am

Brendan72 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:23 am
If it was wooded paneling then perhaps it was part of the refurbishment of the basement during the DeFeo era as the reason it was there? Just a guess in any case since apparently Mr DeFeo also let the kids paint the space red?
It could be. Aside from the creepy red color the Defeo kids painted it, I'm not so sure why the Red Room is such a big deal. I've been in a lot of basements and I've seen a lot of these small, isolated rooms like the red room that once housed mechanical systems. Some of them were even creepier than the one in the Amityville House. I have no doubt in my mind that the space was nothing more than a storage room for the kids. As for the smell of human excrement, that comes from the water that gets trapped after coming through the block foundation of the house and remains in the concrete. It releases bad odor after a while, which is similar to the smell of human decay, and its a common problem in older homes.

lostinthe50s81
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by lostinthe50s81 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:34 pm

daiichi wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:48 am
George and Kathy never claimed the red room materialized out of thin air just for them, of course it was there when the defeos lived there. The Lutz's never refuted this. Yes the room IS mysterious because it was located inside a closet and was too small to really be of any real use and was hidden behind a bookshelf
Well I'm not a professional architect so I don't know whether a small alcove like that would necessarily appear on a blueprint, but in the book it was presented as being partially hidden behind some plywood, as if it had been used by a previous owner for some type of secretive or nefarious purpose. :think:

I have areas in my home -- for instance the space under the stairs in my basement -- that would not be considered by the builders as a 'room' per se, but if I chose to, I could place stuff in there for storage and paint the walls red to make it creepy looking. I suspect that a lot of homes, especially older ones likely have many small alcoves and hideaways that for whatever reason were left in place or served some type of legitimate purpose at one time or another.

But the point is, we have witnesses on camera who have clearly stated there was nothing nefarious about the room, and in fact it was used by the DeFeo children to play and store their toys. So perhaps we can't say that G&K exactly lied about any specific points concerning the room (especially since most of their claims come down to their personal experiences and feelings, which can neither be proven or disproven), but it's clear that they misrepresented it either due to their unique perception of reality, or simply for good old fashioned story telling.
George and Kathy never said it was nefarious. They just said it was an odd color choice, they found it odd that it was hidden behind a bookshelf, their dog was scared of it, and it stunk. The book described it as being hidden behind some plywood and it mentioned the bartender having weird nightmares about it, but it was still pretty tame. The "gateway to hell" thing came from the movies and news headlines. I live in an older house myself and I found a small hidden room in it as well. It's way creepier than the red room was

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Anarane
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Anarane » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:50 am

lostinthe50s81 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:34 pm
I live in an older house myself and I found a small hidden room in it as well. It's way creepier than the red room was
How so? Tell us more!

lostinthe50s81
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by lostinthe50s81 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:12 pm

Anarane wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:50 am
lostinthe50s81 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:34 pm
I live in an older house myself and I found a small hidden room in it as well. It's way creepier than the red room was
How so? Tell us more!
In my hallway there is a closet with shelving in it. On one of the inside walls, there was a full size door frame with shiplap boards nailed over it. One day I decided to see what was there and pried the boards away and there was a small closet sized room there. It had two small shelves on the wall and a working pendant light that was still hooked up. On the shelves, there was a very old medicine bottle, and this weird wooden thing that looks like a tiny bed frame with holes in it. Nobody seems to know what it was. I've heard weird rumors from a doctor living here and making his own medical concoctions in that little room and that's what held his test tubes, to it being a secret distillery room during the prohibition era. I doubt either one but it's still fun to imagine

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Anarane
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Anarane » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:40 am

lostinthe50s81 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:12 pm
In my hallway there is a closet with shelving in it. On one of the inside walls, there was a full size door frame with shiplap boards nailed over it. One day I decided to see what was there and pried the boards away and there was a small closet sized room there. It had two small shelves on the wall and a working pendant light that was still hooked up. On the shelves, there was a very old medicine bottle, and this weird wooden thing that looks like a tiny bed frame with holes in it. Nobody seems to know what it was. I've heard weird rumors from a doctor living here and making his own medical concoctions in that little room and that's what held his test tubes, to it being a secret distillery room during the prohibition era. I doubt either one but it's still fun to imagine
Wow - what a find! Thanks for sharing. :)

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Brendan72
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Re: Anyone here believe there was a haunting anymore?

Post by Brendan72 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:36 pm

To perhaps indirectly answer the question in the thread - I still believe in the haunting but am more interested in what caused the haunting, the origin/s of it. I am open to the idea that more than one factor caused the haunting, and a confluence of events or factors led to the activity.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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