Back when The Night The DeFeo's Died was published...

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
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sherbetbizarre
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Back when The Night The DeFeo's Died was published...

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:16 am

ric112
Moderator
Posts: 823
(3/17/02 12:00:33 am)

Welcome Back to the Amityville Murders Forum

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It's been nearly a year, but we're back. As most of you know, my book, titled The Night the DeFeos Died: Reinvestigating the Amityville Murders, is now out. Yay! It was a long, long haul, but I am sure that you will see, after reading it of course, that it was worth it. Visit www.thenightthedefeosdied.com for further info. Now on to the rules...

1) Absolutely no slandering or defamatory language!

2) No abusive or severely foul language.

3) Stay on topic!

4) Other boards' discussion WILL stay on other boards. However, if you would like to start a similar topic here then please make sure it is appropriate message-board material. In other words, this message board is rated PG!

5) No threatening other visitors...or the admins/moderators for that matter.

6) Respect ALL views on the case no matter how ridiculous they seem. In other words, don't ridicule someone for wanting to believe in a giant red-eyed demonic pig that calls itself Jodie and likes inviting himself over for tea. 'nuf said.

7) If you are going to debate/argue a point then do so intelligently.

8) Stick to the Amityville-subject matter only! That means do not discuss people's personal lives outside Amityville. For example, we don't need to know that Jodie the red-eyed pig has 1000 wives and likes to squeal in his underwear.

9) No multiple usernames! Myself and the other admin/moderators will make sure that this rule is strictly enforced. Of course, if you need to use another username then simply let everyone know in advance.

10) Any violation of these rules will be dealt with appropriately. The penalties range from a friendly warning to a permanent ban from this forum.

11) Admins/Moderators reserve the right to delete immediately any messages/links that they feel are inappropriate.

12) If you can't follow these rules and post like an intelligent adult then feel free to go elsewhere.

13) Welcome all fellow visitors regardless of their beliefs. As was previously stated, all beliefs/opinions, whether pro or con, are welcomed here.

14) NO posting other Amityville-message boards' links. Why? Because in the past, this is how the board wars were started. Feel free, however, to post Amityville-related Web sites that are tasteful.

15) NO Impersonating anyone. In other words, if your name isn't George Lee Lutz, don't post as George Lee Lutz. If you are not Bill Weber, don't post as Bill Weber. Posting as someone else could get you banned quite quickly.

As soon as this forum is at full speed, you will notice there will be at least 3 other admin/moderators. Unless I am told otherwise by them, they will include, Mike Reilly, Dave, and The Amityville Rock. I may add a few more depending on the circumstances. My own involvement may (or may not) initially be limited. That means, as before, the other admins/moderators will be in charge. In other words, I am making this their board more so than mine.

It's a clean slate, meaning the troublemakers from the past get a new chance to act decent. This, of course, means they have been unbanned. But it only takes a few seconds and keystrokes to delete a message, or for that matter ban someone.

The only reason I decided to reinstate this message board was because the fans wanted a safe and enjoyable Amityville-message board experience. So follow the rules and let's make this a very enjoyable one.

[Edit. Note:] The board is operational as of Sunday, March 17, 2002....Happy St. Patrick's Day.

Edited by: ric112 at: 3/17/02 3:38:19 pm


The Amityville Rock
Registered User
Posts: 128
(3/17/02 12:36:36 pm)
It is good to be back

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Hello all.

Wew boy things sure have changed since I first discovered these boards back in late 1999 (as RLWLDXTW, of course). Through it all we have stuck together, and thus we have now reached this great day. At long last Ric's book has been published, and the TRUTH WILL FINALLY BE EXPOSED. I love it.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 826
(3/17/02 2:38:56 pm)

Re: It is good to be back

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Thanks, Rock. I wanted a book to set the record straight and not a book to simply milk Amityville for all of its worth. Although I am my biggest critic, I can honestly say that I would not have released this book for publication if had not found incontrovertible evidence to support the true story. In other words, I think 99% of the readers will agree that I presented not only a radically different story, but best of all, one that is supported by real facts and evidence.
The Truth Will Set You Free...


David112LiveAtTheWitchesBrew
Registered User
Posts: 1
(3/17/02 3:28:04 pm)
Re: It is good to be back

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Good afternoon gents,Happy St. Patricks Day and it is great to be back in business. Ric, a very big Congratulations on your book and for all of your hard work,today is definetly a new begining.
I went over to the New Truth board last night and once again, they are posting the same old tired material but still, they are more than welcome to post over here but rest assured that if there is any of them give us trouble over here by posting personal attacks, I'll make sure that they will be forever banished from this disscusion, however the vibe over on that forum tell's me that they won't post over here...and of course from past experience. I did notice yesterday however, that they were crying censorship over there ,totally contradicting themselves, how many of us were banned from the 2nd truth forum??? But enough on them.
Lets discuss the case and my first little bit of input is basically the question how the Lutz family was connected to all of this, how and why did they get involved? Obviously they knew about the murders as did the rest of Long Island and much of the East Coast, I know for a fact that the story appeared in Philadelphia newspapers because several years ago when I was in Art School ,one of my pastimes was going to the Philadelphia Public Library up on Ben Franklin Parkway and looking through the Microfilm files they have, I have yet to find out though, if the story made our Papers here, The Delaware State News and The Wilmington News Journal . I did go to the Library at Delaware State and saw the New York Time's article but unfortunatly, the copies of our Local Papers only go back to 1987,one place I havent checked however is The University Of Delaware ,maybe that will be my next stop. I just want to see if the story had much of an impact when it occoured, I highly doubt it but I am curious if it was mentioned at all, many things were different back in 1974. If it had happened yesterday it would have been all over the news/internet within minutes.
Back on topic now, I have been wondering why the Lutzes were the ones to move into the house and what individuals made this possible, did the Lutzes willingy plan the hoax with other,more influental individuals or were they merely pawns in the hands of others?
PeaceOUt
David

P.S. Speaking of Pawns Mike, I believe it is your move bro, my last move was Pawn on F-2 moves to F-3, I have been recording our game in a notebook in case the board gets out of whack, or if my cat decides that the chessboard would be a good place to sleep.


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 1
(3/17/02 3:46:58 pm)
Re: It is good to be back

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My thank you to Mr.Ric Osuna and his beautiful wife.
Louise Defeo can show herself now not as a murder victum but a person.
My two older daughters can here Allison again laughing.
We who loved them can see that they were people not just victum's of a murder.
The many lying things said by Butch over the years can now be sorted out.
So what is thank you ? What do the words mean?
27 years of guilt of shame of hurt and madness .TWENTY SEVEN years of hideing of listening to Butch lie and rant and rave.
Twenty Seven years of the Brigant /Defeo family running away from truth .Telling every body to shut up.
The hurt you feel from not being allowed to defend those you do love is a heavy burden to carry for twenty seven years
So THANK YOU RIC OSUNA AND MY DARLING GIRL For setting us all free
Butch will have God as his judge,but at least now people will see what caused this to happen altho it is no excuse to take a human life and only God can forgive him for that because i can't
GOD BLESS YOU ALL MY WONDERFUL FRIENDS
MRS. D


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 827
(3/17/02 5:11:44 pm)
Re: It is good to be back

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Mrs. D I want to say 'thank you' not only for your wonderful post to my wife and me, but also trusting me with the real story. I honestly feel that the DeFeos can finally rest in peace now. It was tragic to think that all of these years their memories were victimized by those who would capitalize shamelessly off of their deaths.

This brings me to my next point. I had responded to Dave's post but when I hit the spellchecker it was deleted. So...use the spellchecker at your own peril.

Dave: Here's my second attempt to answer your question.

I think William Weber was (is?) an excellent attorney. Some of the arguments he presented at trial, and on appeal, were brilliant. Throughout the whole trial, Weber tried to present the truth, but often was shot down by a corrupt legal system. In the end, he was forced to use the insanity defense and hope for mercy for his client. Of course, that does not exonerate his role in perpetrating or profiting off of the hoax.

To understand how the Lutzes fit into the whole thing, you first have to understand how and why the hoax was conceived. From the onset, Butch DeFeo never was offered a fair chance at justice--that's not to say he was innocent. Attorney Jacob Siegfried, the attorney prior to Weber, wanted to present the real case to the courts, but, according to Siegfried, the courts felt Butch's defense was low standards and did not appropriately weigh defense's need for evidence. In other words, Siegfried tried to get police reports, crime-scene photos, etc..., but was turned down. Eventually, he had no other recourse but to have Butch plead insanity. Butch refused and threatened Siegfried with bodily harm. Siegfried resigned in May '75.

Enter Weber in July '75. Just prior to Siegfried's departure, Judge Signorelli got the case. Weber, who had worked on Signorelli's on-going campaign for a seat on the Suffolk County Surrogate Court, reapplied for the material that Siegfried could not get. Of course, Prosecutor Gerard Sullivan was not happy with this. On Aug. 1, 1975, Weber got permission to have the material that Butch's defense should have gotten a long time ago. However, Weber did not receive this material until Aug. 27--three weeks before the trial began.

Sullivan, angered over Signorelli granting Weber's request, pressured Judge Signorrelli from the case and handpicked Justice Thomas Stark. It was a very illegal maneuver.

Although Weber requested an adjournment, Stark refused even going as far as ignoring the fact that Herman Race--the defense's expert investigator and a former NYPD homicide detective supervisor--testified that other parties and another gun were used in the killings AND that not all of the DeFeos were shot in bed. Stark also ignored the fact that Gerard Sullivan--the prosecutor--reluctantly admitted that there were other guilty parties. Funny, though, because he forgot to mention this in his book. So, the trial was set to begin in the middle of September 1975. Up until that time, Weber told the courts he was not too sure if he would use the insanity verdict. In fact, Weber never even brought up the insanity defense in his opening statements to the jury. All of this, including exact testimony, is presented in Chapter Ten of my book, titled "Impeaching the DeFeo Trial."

From day one, Weber knew he was facing a rough road. Siegfried had been threatened with death and was unavailable to help Weber in any way. During July 1975, George Lutz was seen asking questions around Amityville, including asking Bobby Kelske and other patrons at Henry's Bar. In the summer of '75, Weber and the Lutzes, who, it is my understanding, found each other through mutual friends, created the idea for the hoax. In one meeting, Geraldine DeFeo even was present, even though she later walked out because she refused to be part of such a hair-ball scheme.

So how did Weber get Butch to finally agree to an insanity defense? Simple. He promised Butch that he would be committed for two to three years and after he would be released from an insane asylum. The real clincher for Butch was that Weber told him he would be rich from the proposed book that he and the Lutzes were creating. Sullivan knew this (the insanity act and the making-money plan) and told the jury this in his closing statements and cross-examined Butch about it. Butch, however, was a terrible actor and a bad liar, so everyone saw through his act.

Regardless, Anson's version of the Lutzes' story was not what was originally agreed upon. The original book was supposed to hold three theories: one being Butch was a sociopath and presented by Gerard Sullivan; two being Butch was insane and presented by Bill Weber and Dr. Schwartz, the psychiatrist for the defense; three, as part of an epilogue, the Lutzes were supposed to say that they had felt a "strong force" inside the house. The author was supposed to be Paul Hoffman, who was introduced to Weber by Herman Race. Everything got out of hand and the Lutzes went with Jay Anson, who they met in February 1976 even while they were still negotiating with Weber. After Weber was burnt by the Lutzes, he canned Hoffman and went with Hans Holzer.

This was the short, short version of events. My book discusses, in-great detail, the events I just spoke of. Excerpts from letters, affidavits, contracts, testimony and photos all support this story. Hope that helps clear things up a bit.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 3/18/02 12:44:57 am



AMHREAL
Registered User
Posts: 30
(3/17/02 6:23:44 pm)
Thanks

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Ric,
Thanks for putting the board back up.I hope this will be as much fun as the old board.and I hope everyone has a lot of good information.
Thanks again.
Toby


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 100
(3/17/02 7:22:02 pm)
Jurors

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Ric,

Did you track down any jurors from the case?
Didn't they find this all rather odd?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 828
(3/17/02 7:59:49 pm)
Re: Jurors

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Welcome, Toby. Thank you for coming by...and I agree. I hope we can make this board as much fun as it used to be.



Sherb: No, I never tracked down any jurors because I never felt I needed to. Rather, I made better use of my time and resources by gathering other material. Because if I were any of the jurors, I would have found Butch DeFeo guilty, too. Albeit, there were items I am sure they were skeptical of the entire prosecution's claims, but not enough to aqcuit Butch. You'll understand from reading the book. You also have to understand that many of the incriminating things I referenced about Sullivan were either said outside the presence of the jury or during the post-hearing conference which was prior to jury selection. Nevertheless, they still became part of the official record.

Butch was a terrible actor, so it would have been easy to see he was lying. In fact, he offered a judicial admission. When asked by Weber if he had killed his father, Butch said, Yes, sir. I killed them all before they could kill me. At that point, another gun and accomplices were moot. And since the jury saw that Butch was not insane they had one choice left: convict. Judge Stark refused to allow Weber to show that the police knew there was other accomplices and that the whole robbery motive was fabricated. One way or another, Butch DeFeo was going down for the count.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


David112LiveAtTheWitchesBrew
Admin/Moderator
Posts: 2
(3/18/02 12:12:36 am)
Re: Jurors

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I must say that is very impressive bro, it clearly sounds like that whole thing just snowballed worse than I ever imagined,even though that Bill Weber eventually got his hands dirty,he seems as if he were pushed into a tight spot by the system and had to resort to offering Butch money to finally plead insane. What if Seigfried had done the same? What direction would the trial have taken???
It seems as if the jurors were kind of sitting in a blind spot anyway, it was a big trial in that region and were only hearing the obvious,the trial itself and were oblivious as to what was going on behind the scenes so to speak, like you Ric, if I had been sitting on that Jury I would have found Butch guilty as well .

What is interesting though, and please forgive me for sounding like a know-it-all ,is the time period when the murder's occoured and the trial that followed, in 1975, the Tate-LaBianca murders by members of The Manson Family were still quite fresh in the publics mind ,not to mention that as the Defeo Trial was going on, Lynette Fromme had made headlines after she attempted to assasinate President Ford,so what I am suggesting is, is that maybe the people in the jury were perhaps a little biased, or rather the prosecution made it so that they would eventually sway to thier argument that Butch acted alone and who would believe that anyway?Acting alone? A Marlin is quite a powerful weapon and if someone fired it in the dead of night it could wake the whole house up,a couple of years ago when I was down in Honduras I was woken up in the middle of the night several times by gunshots.

For those of you who are not familiar with Central America, there is a huge network of gangs down there who call themselves Dies De Ocho , in english it translates as "The 18" You can see thier graffiti all over the place down there, they commit crimes ranging from petty thievery to murder and there was a contigent of them whoes turf was in the neighborhood where I stayed. They did not bother with me or Sancho for it was out of respect for the family we were staying with,they did bum cigarettes from me all the time though and they loved to have thier picture taken, in fact Sancho took a picture of me standing with a group of them, Ric, I'll talk to Sancho if you like and have him scan that picture so I can send it to you, my sister,who is a social worker freaked out when she saw the pic...they were flashing hand symbols. A month later, after I flew back to the States we found out through Sancho's sister -in-law that those same Cholos(gangmembers) had killed a guy in front of her house
back to topic, many of these kids had homemade guns, made from metal pipes and such and complete with a firingpin and flint, quite ingenious actually and they'd shoot them off at night,not very loud but still enough to jolt you out of bed...Imagine what a factory made weapon sounds like in a closed area.
Peace
David


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 830
(3/18/02 12:31:02 am)
Re: Jurors

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Great story, Dave; I'd love a picture. And you are right. I called Marlin and they said the .35-caliber rifle should have been heard at least a half mile away. I am positive that many of the neighbors heard the gunshots. I just wish The History Channel would have aired the Irelands' interview where they admit they heard the shots. I found a former NBC reporter who intereviewed other neighbors soon after the murders. He, too, found those who heard the shots. Yet the alleged DeFeo-Mob ties prevented the neighbors from speaking out. In other words, they did not want to get involved. And they were off the hook when the police announced that Butch was the guilty party the day after the murders.

Regarding Jacob Siegfried, I think very highly of him because he did his absolute best to present the real story to the court. And the same goes for Weber at first. I feel in the end, Weber just accepted his losses and decided to make a buck. But one thing is for sure, he really did try to get many of the facts out at trial, at least to have the jury have a reasonable doubt.

Sullivan's opening statements were almost comical. Not only did he contradict himself with the whole timeframe of the murders, but he also told the jury that Butch never did tell the complete truth to the homicide detectives. Yet, Sullivan wanted the jury to believe everything that Detective Rafferty said. Hmm... And yes, Sullivan saw this case as his ticket to fame, which it was. I think he wanted to be another Vincent Bugliosi, if, you know what I mean.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


jbmeister
Registered User
Posts: 91
(3/18/02 2:48:08 am)
Re: congrats and thanks

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Ric,

Thanks for putting the board up again.. it's good to see that people are still interested. Your call with Marlin echos a discussion I had with one of their people in early 2k about it being more than likely someone heard it going on. That person also brought up the fact that you can 'chamber" a 7th shot in the .35. Did this fact have any sort of relevance to your investigation?

I also lament the fact that the Ireland's interview was not used in the history channel tapes. There was a ton of information that was bagged because you and a few others we're insistant on the truth.

This is probably talked about in the book but, what was the Cromarty's role in purchasing the house and being the ever-present press debunkers. We're they owners of the house at the time they were to protect the town and act in any way on behalf of Amityville? I only ask because of the relationship the Cromarty's had/have with the chief of police of Amityville. Was it more than co-incidental?

jb


bigsixxraven
Registered User
Posts: 3
(3/18/02 2:56:32 am)
Re: congrats and thanks

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Welcome back Ric!!

As a former Massapequa resident, I stated on the old board that I lived less than a quarter a mile away (Erlwein Court and Merrick Road) and though I thought I knew everything about this story I learned much from you.

It was a pleasure to read FACTUAL accounts and not hoaxes and old wives tales and theories.

Keep up the good work!

Sixx
http://www.bigdadiproductions.com rantin and raven---again!!! If looks could kill, you'd be lying on the floor. You'd be beggin me please please darling don't hurt me no mo...


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 1
(3/18/02 4:10:16 am)
Re: It is good to be back

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RIC: I'm willing to give you some benefit of the doubt here, so I would appreciate it if you could answer a few questions:

I guess the whole essence of your lutz theory is based on if the Lutzes did meet with Mr. Weber and did plan a hoax. So my question is what evidence do you have to prove that these events occurred? What proof do you have the lutzes met with mr. weber and planned a hoax? And please don't tell us that gerri told you so.

Also you say that before the lutzes met weber, they were asking questions around town. What does that mean, what questions were they asking and what proof do you have they were asking questions and what proof do you have they asked bobby kelske questions?

If they met weber through mutual friends, who are these friends and did you get evidence from them that proves they helped get lutz and weber together? what are the friend's names?

Thanks in advance,

ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 831
(3/18/02 4:10:17 am)
Welcome Back...

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Hi JB:

Glad you made it.

I already knew you could chamber a 7th round, but the Marlin specialist I spoke to reiterated that for me. From my investigation, which was based on forensic reports, interviews, affidavits and testimony, such as Herman Race's, I discovered that the second bullet in Louise did not come from the Marlin rifle.

That means, of course, that the seven other rounds found in the victims DID come from the .35-caliber Marlin. Yet, the Marlin was recovered on November 15, 1974, with two live rounds in it. So, this meant that one of the killers reloaded the weapon--at least partially.

It is my understanding that the Amityville Chief of Police is cousins with Jim Cromarty. I really think the Cromartys walked into the whole situation blindly. They bought the house in March 1977 and nobody had a clue that the Lutz story was going to be as huge as it was. They were offered a large amount of money to sell the house by someone who wanted to see if there was any ghosts inside of it, but they refused citing they loved their home and Amityville too much to do that. I can sympathize with their debunking efforts. If my home was a center of a hoax, I would make sure the whole world knew it was free of any phenomena. Of course, I am sure all the attention did not hurt their business any.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 832
(3/18/02 4:13:30 am)
Thanks

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Welcome back! Thanks. I can't wait to hear your opinion of my book. And I love Massapequa...after all, my favorite restaurant, The Nautilus, is there. I miss Long Island a lot! In fact, I am hoping to someday move out that way.

Edited by: ric112 at: 3/18/02 4:17:39 am


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 2
(3/18/02 4:14:16 am)
Re: Jurors

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ric said:

" I called Marlin and they said the .35-caliber rifle should have been heard at least a half mile away. I am positive that many of the neighbors heard the gunshots. I just wish The History Channel would have aired the Irelands' interview where they admit they heard the shots. I found a former NBC reporter who intereviewed other neighbors soon after the murders. He, too, found those who heard the shots. Yet the alleged DeFeo-Mob ties prevented the neighbors from speaking out. In other words, they did not want to get involved. And they were off the hook when the police announced that Butch was the guilty party the day after the murders."
Very interesting, so you admit that the neighbors have lied to not become involved in the story. I guess they would also lie about possible paranormal activity there too. Afterall, you would sound pretty crazy talking about ghosts in your house in small town, USA.


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 2
(3/18/02 8:32:16 am)
Re: Jurors

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Ric
On Bill Webber and the gun.
He also had a man tell him the gun had to be herd,but did not want to use this because it would hurt the plot for the book.
On the second gun.
What a joke that was Webber busted his ass trying to get that in.
He had a chance when Lin started yelling in the court room but as you know the judge made Lin shut up
TO ALL OF YOU POSTING ON THIS BOARD
The book will blow you away with things you can not even imagine.
Ric found a few things i had never seen before,as well as paperwork i had no idea existed
And yes i was with him when the Suffolk County District Attorney brought it out to him.
As for Jacob Ziegfrid this man was a wonderful Attorney a great man!
When he brought up the insanity defense to Butch in the Attorney visiting room of Riverhead, Butch attempted to choke him
This case is so full of lunacy ,i'am amazed it took Ric only two years to wade through it all


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 3
(3/18/02 1:22:00 pm)
Re: Jurors

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Mrs. D:

So you are the only evidence that a meeting took place between lutz and webber and a hoax was planned? IF so, what evidence do you have that this occurred besides claiming to be there?

ozz


The Amityville Rock
Admin/Moderator
Posts: 137
(3/18/02 1:40:44 pm)
Re:

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I too have order your book Ric ma' man, and am looking forward to reading it.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 834
(3/18/02 2:40:19 pm)
Good Morning...

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Thanks, Rock.

Mrs. D: I believe it. As I said, initially Weber really worked hard to get many facts entered into court. After he lost, he just kind of accepted Butch's fate and went with it, or so it seems.


Ozz: Yes, Mrs. D is authentic. I believe Sherb's post from the other day lends even further credence to that fact. But that was not what your question was. Yes, Mrs. D met with the Lutzes. But that is not all the proof of the meeting. In the meeting, Kathy and George talk about certain things that I later verified. Evidence is presented in the book.

Besides, the Lutzes own inconsistent statements--such as Kathy and George saying on national TV that the haunting was over, yet two years later a purported nonfiction sequel is released that continues the story--there is quite a bit of information found in Lutz vs. Weber.

Contrary to what Dvinn said, a person would have to be blind not to see that a huge amount of material exists in the case file to disprove many of the Lutzes' claims. For example, the Lutzes lied when they said they knew Father Pecoraro before their marriage. Why? Because over objections, the Lutzes admitted to the court the true timeframe of when they met Father Pecoraro. See the book for further details...

You also have the defendant's memorandums, depositions and plaintiff's briefs which prove that the Lutzes were simply using Weber for information and had even made contact with Jay Anson by as early as February 15, 1976. In all fairness to Dvinn, if he really did go down to the court, three hours is nothing to spend reading the whole case file. I spent two days and $150 to $200 copying the entire thing on their "state-of-the-art" copy machines. *Note sarcasm*

Besides the case, we then have the recollection of residents of Ocean Avenue who saw the Lutzes come and go to give the house only a lived in look.

I've also presented some financial information about the Lutzes before and after the hoax...taken, of course, from public records.

I've also interviewed the psychics that George Lutz wanted to say the house was haunted, yet told him there was nothing there.

The list goes on and on...

Since I dedicated a whole chapter to the entire hoax, including the whole Hans Holzer/Indian Chief fiasco, I recommend you read it thoroughly.

User avatar
Dan the Damned
Lost Soul
Posts: 11646

Post by Dan the Damned » Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:29 pm

OMG - this is so funny!!! Thanks for posting it!

BTW - funny how chapter 4 in Kaplan's book is titled "My Investigation Begins." This is the same title Ric later decides to use for his Subheader in Chapter 11 (p 262).
ric wrote:Yes, Mrs. D met with the Lutzes. But that is not all the proof of the meeting. In the meeting, Kathy and George talk about certain things that I later verified. Evidence is presented in the book.
Where? Is this evidence supposed to be where Geraldine states, "The Lutzes claimed they were involved with Transcendental Meditation..."? Is that supposed to be information no one else knew? How ridiculous. I don't see any other evidence listed explaining why we should believe that meeting.

Of course its a moot point now, since Geraldine has been exposed as a fraud...
ric wrote:...we then have the recollection of residents of Ocean Avenue who saw the Lutzes come and go to give the house only a lived in look.
This is one of my favorites. How does one tell if people are "coming and going only to make it look like they live there" or if people are simply coming and going because they actually live there???
in his book The Night The DeFeos Died, Ric Osuna wrote:During televised interviews in 1979, Kathy Lutz claimed that the same paranormal organizations had seen the physical evidence mentioned in Anson’s book, but that they did not want to damage the interior of the house by taking samples, which turned out to be a blatant lie.
And yet we are given no further information explaining why Ric states this as "a blatant lie." You'd expect a quote from someone backing up Ric's accusation to follow, but we get nothing...

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sherbetbizarre
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Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:06 pm

grizzerb
Registered User
Posts: 38
(4/1/02 9:52:02 am)
Reply Ric's Book

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If you haven't purchased it yet, PLEASE DO. I received the book Friday and finished it last night. It is an excellent book. I am not going to go into detail, but I will say this:

your opinion on everything regarding the Amityville story WILL change once you read this book.

I, too, was like all of you, wanting to believe all of the stories. Now, I'm not so sure. Read the book, then make your own assumptions.

Ric was right, the book will reveal alot more than you can imagine.

Great job, Ric.

Lynn


MRSD112
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(4/1/02 11:42:28 am)
Reply Re: Ric's Book

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I can not tell you what it felt like after two years of running all over with Ric Osuna for this that and the other proof,to hold that book in my hands.I laughed ,i cryed ,i remebered with sadness and joy.
Ric to say the least at times was a pain in my can.
More and more proof he wanted and we joked often about that.
We were at the Homicide squad so often the clerks knew us by first name.
Ric would sit hours in to the night reading and appalled at what he found.
Ric is devoted to the truth and the Defeo family.
He found trial testimony never before seen ,not to mention crime scene photos i only herd about and never had seen.
Ric prayed at the grave with me and together we went to the church that had the six coffens in .
And together we cryed.
Ric Osuna committed him self to this work.
He would ask me to check and recheck his work for any inaccuracy and i could find none.
Ric and i went to the school that Allison Mark and John Matt went to .
We went to the school Dawn was in.
We went to Brooklyn and Ric retraced Butchs footsteps that night.
NO STONE WAS LEFT UNTURNED .
To Ric Osuna my friend for his continuos investigating love
respect,morols,prestige,strength concern and eloquence in writeing the book The Night The Defeos Died.my praise,and my blessings for your assured success

Mrs.D ........


ric112
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(4/1/02 3:00:43 pm)
Reply
Re: Ric's Book

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Thank you, Lynn. I am happy to hear that you enjoyed it.


And thank you, Mrs. D, for the opportunity to report the truth to the public.

Ric

The Truth Will Set You Free...


jbmeister
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(4/2/02 12:19:24 am)
Reply Re: Ric's Book

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It arrived today, skimming through. It's pretty bewildering if that's how it went down. I'm utterly disgusted about it. I was even a bit light headed after reading the events of the murder. I thought it was pretty simple as it was if Ronnie Jr did all the shooting, but this is either true and sick or a very elaborate story on the behalf of Jr. I feel bad to find out that this family was just very very sick.. and for the amount of action that seems to have taken place on the street that night, you would think someone would have woken up from just the noise coming from the house that night irrespective of the shooting.. what, was DeFeo Al Capone or something to keep the neighborhood so afraid of him that they couldnt call the cops? It seems like the Defeo children had no sense of survival to have put up with the controlling crap their brother and sister in this account put them through. Ric, i wish that you were old enough to have researched this when many of the principles were easier to find, interview, etc.



ric112
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(4/2/02 12:41:02 am)
Reply
Re: Ric's Book

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Sad to say that is it true. That night was filled with bad decisions...very bad ones at that. I was literally sick after learning how the murders actually occurred because it is so sad and soooo tragic. You'll read the evidence supports the story told to me by Butch. Oh and don't forget, JB, that the DeFeo household was filled with chaotic scenes almost on a daily basis, so if anyone had heard anything then they might have thought all was normal.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 4/2/02 12:45:36 am



MRSD112
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(4/2/02 7:36:37 am)
Reply Re: Ric's Book

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AL CAPONE,had a summer place he stayed in when he was in Amityville a few times.
To big Ronnie and Butch, Capone was a hero a big man.
Mr.Defeo would be outside yelling or praying and a neighbor would look ar him,and he would yell and cuss and tell them to watch out because he was connected.
Dawn would do this and so would Butch.
You should understand that in one breath Mr.Defeo was saying all of them were no good nothing with out him.
And in the next breath he was telling them every body was crap and below them .
Dawn and Butch would fire guns in the back yard,yell,scream and cuss.Mr. Defeo would go out and yell at them and it would get worse.
They had loud partys and fights right outside.
The police when called did nothing because of Mike Brigante's
police connections all over the place.
The way Dawn acted was nothing new her old boy friend and Louise Defeos friend absolutely confirmed this to Ric,as well as others.
Dawn was no little girl she was very strong.
And as i have said before .
Dawn could have called for help ,her phone was right next to her bed.
Dawn could have climbed out her window she could have put something by her door to bye time and called the police.
The police station was about 3 minutes away.
John Matt could have run like hell out of the house ,called for help on the phone,climbed out his window
Three people could not jump Butch and knock him down?
Dawn ,Allison and John Matt together could have done something.
Mark was hurt but he might have been able to use his crutch to knock the gun out of Butch hands something.
As to Dawn climbing out her window from the third floor ,she did that plenty of times when she was confined in her room.
As to that night well other nights in that house were just as bad but the end result to them was not murder.
OH by the way the neighbors could not stand the Defeos and filed complaints on them,but again nothing was ever done.
When nice neighbors say nice things about them ,it is i think them not wanting to speak bad of the dead


Edited by: MRSD112 at: 4/2/02 8:03:18 am


MRSD112
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(4/2/02 7:42:31 am)
Reply Re: Ric's Book

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I should add
Mike Brigante always stopped anything that would hurt his daughter.
Mike was a respected man who had a lot of political pull in very high places.
He gave large amounts of money quite often to many police organizations.
His son Michael Jr.associated with the rich and famous,he was able to influence many important people himself
Also the fact that Mike Brigante was really connected played a big part in what the Defeos did being over looked .
Mr.Defeos uncle Peter Defeo was connected and in the news paper often.
So nothing could be done,one neighbor did move out.


Edited by: MRSD112 at: 4/2/02 8:28:47 am

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BillyCigars
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Post by BillyCigars » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:13 pm

Geraldine wrote:Mark was hurt but he might have been able to use his crutch to knock the gun out of Butch hands something.
That's a joke, right?
"The old man's still an artist with a Thompson."

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Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:52 am

RSKaplan
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Reply The Proof is In!

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For everyone who kept harping on Ric to "put up or shut up", read it and weep! His new Documentation page on the website backs up everything he stated in his book. Anyone who could possibly still believe that he made all of this up is just not playing with a full deck. It would be near to impossible to fake all of those documents, especially when anyone with the time and the money can just go to Amityville and see them for themselves.

I know what it is like to knock yourself out to find out the truth and get it out to the public, only to be told that you were only in it for the "glory" or the "money" (HA! Big laugh there, in my case). Ric's careful research has not only vindicated his own claims, but gave further validation to the book written by my late husband and myself. I feel as though the missing puzzle pieces have finally been found, and the case can be put to rest.


kibblybibster
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(5/17/02 10:54:54 am)
Reply Well said

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Totally agree and could not have put in better myself. The page was well set out and the documentation well described. Great job.

Ric. Just one question. Will you be putting any more documentation up on your web page. I was very interested in the trial transcript and wondered if you would be putting any more of the trial transcripts up?


ric112
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(5/17/02 1:20:43 pm)
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Re: Well said

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Thank you, Roxanne. Like you, I feel the case can be put to rest now that your fine book exposes the hoax and my book exposes the murders.

Kibbly, thanks. From time to time I may add more documents to the page, but right now I need to finish up the other portions of my new media center.

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.

Edited by: ric112 at: 5/17/02 1:21:34 pm

azukoski
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Post by azukoski » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:30 pm

May I ask a question: what was the point or reasoning behind posting more vintage "gospel" from good ol' ric-the-dick112 and Roxanne Kaplan? Please tell me its just for laughs :!:
Last edited by azukoski on Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dan the Damned
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Post by Dan the Damned » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:46 pm

I think Sherb is asleep right now (its not even 5am in London), but I'm glad he's posting these old posts.

A lot of people here were not around back then, and don't know what Ric's reasoning was back then. Myself included.

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sherbetbizarre
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Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:07 am

azukoski wrote:May I ask a question: what was the point or reasoning behind posting more vintage "gospel" from good ol' ric-the-dick112 and Roxanne Kaplan? Please tell me its just for laughs :!:
Pretty much. Plus most people were not around at the time.

btw I'm going to remove your comment about Mrs K!

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Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:14 am

grizzerb
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(4/9/02 9:11:02 am)
Reply you know...

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Looking back at old articles on the murders, it seems to me that Ronnie was consistent with his plea - he only killed his sister, Dawn. I found some newspapers that my dad had given me with articles on the case (for some reason, he buys the NY papers instead of the PA ones..) the one that I looked at last night was the NY Post in September, 1999. It said that he was denied parole, denies 5 murders. I did some more checking into old articles. He was denying 5 murders in several of the articles.

don't you think that that alone would make someone wonder? the man has been saying the same thing for several years. Hmm..

I sure hope Ric's book helps him finally get a fair trial after all this time.. anyhow.. just wanted to state my opinion (once again...)

have a good one!!


Lynn



ric112
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Re: you know...

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I hear your concern, Lynn. And yes, all of the previous articles indicated that Butch has always said Dawn had a hand in the murders. Like you, I hope that those in power will be embarrassed enough by the revelation of evidence in my book that they will give Butch a new trial. In fact, I even wrote to the New York Attorney's General asking him to look into the entire case because the level of corruption was outrageous.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

zzvampy
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Post by zzvampy » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:19 am

And yes, all of the previous articles indicated that Butch has always said Dawn had a hand in the murders
Really?

Image


Image

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sherbetbizarre
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Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:22 am

Haha - we needed you around in 2002, ZZ!

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Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:55 pm

RSKaplan
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(4/5/02 11:20:06 pm)
Reply Newsday Article

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Did anyone notice that Newsday mentioned the Amityville Horror a few days ago? It was an article about hoaxes on Long Island. They mainly talked about the Indian burial ground myth. There was a small picture of the house on the map of LI with all the other myths. Maybe any of you interested can check it out at Newsday.com.


ric112
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(4/5/02 11:42:00 pm)
Reply
Re: Newsday Article

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Thanks, Roxanne. Will do.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


jbmeister
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(4/6/02 1:50:00 am)
Reply Re: Book Publicity

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Ric,

Have you entertained publicists to work your book?

JB


ric112
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(4/6/02 2:48:25 am)
Reply
Re: Book Publicity

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Not at this point.

Any suggestions?

The Truth Will Set You Free...


Mike Reilly
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(4/6/02 11:07:41 am)
Reply Re: Newsday Article

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Thanks for the tip, Roxanne - the article was very interesting. Here's the link for anyone who wants to check it out:

www.newsday.com/mynews/ny...ar31.story


jbmeister
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(4/7/02 1:00:00 am)
Reply Re: Newsday Article

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Sure, a friend of mine from LA who writes on the side and publishes could suggest someone who would understand this thing.. I'd be happy to get a name and number for you.. Ill contact you offline about it..

JB


ric112
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Re: Newsday Article

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I appreciate that JB. Thanks.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

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sherbetbizarre
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Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:00 pm

ric112
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Reply
FYI Now Available

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Just wanted to inform everyone that my book is now listed at all the major on-line bookstores, such as Amazon.com, Borders.com, bn.com and even Amazon's UK Site.

Thanks for all of your support.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sweetmate2000
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(4/5/02 6:10:02 pm)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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Wow! Congratulations Ric!
From working at an internationally-known publishing company and having my name as the editor on many books, I know what a huge thrill it is to see your name all over the place in association with a book. It is exciting, to say the least.
I am the editor of a huge reference work that indexes book reviews. We index reviews in about 500 magazines and journals. If I happen to see your book reviewed, we will be sure to cite it. I can possibly contact you privately about forwarding the reviews.

I ordered your book already and it should be here on the 8th (according to UPS). In the meantime, I hope everyone who already has read it will register with Amazon, BN, etc. and write a review on it. Word spreads that way, believe me!
Congrats again and Best of Luck. You deserve it after all your hard work


ric112
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(4/5/02 11:44:36 pm)
Reply
Re: FYI Now Available

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Hi Sweetmate:

Thanks for all of the encouragement and recommendations. And by all means, please contact me with any helpful information...or for that matter, if you have any questions about the book. I look forward to receiving your comments about it after you've had a chance to review it.

Ric

The Truth Will Set You Free...


MRSD112
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(4/6/02 6:30:25 pm)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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Ric ....just wanted to tell you.
The book is wonderful .
I am proud to have been able to see your devotion.
I am honored to call you friend .
AND NOW I CAN TELL YA ............OK RIC OSUNA ......
YOU WROTE A KICK ASS BOOK SO YOU KNOW THAT YOU WILL SUCCEED .
I KNOW HAPPY IS UP ON TOP OF THE WORLD NOW,THAT THE BOOK IS OUT.
I THINK THE BRICK FEELS FREE AT LAST ,DON'T YOU?
SEE A KID WITH A DREAM TO KNOW THE TRUTH CAN DO ANYTHING,EVEN GET IN TO THE HOUSE ,HEART AND HOPE OF THE FAMILY
LOVE YOU ............MRS. D


The Amityville Rock
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(4/6/02 6:45:29 pm)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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Ric ma' man I'm very happy that things are continuing to work out for you, and may they continue to do so.

PS: The book is fantastic, everything I dreamed of, and much more ma' man


MRSD112
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(4/6/02 8:28:01 pm)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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ROCKKKKKKKKK
YOU GOT THE BOOK ............
THANK THE LORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEEN WAITING FOR THE MIGHTY AMITYVILLE ROCK TO SINK HIS TEETH IN TO THAT FOR OVER ONE YEAR NOW
Dave got it also and thinks it all fits .
How far along are you?
would be intreresting to know what you think of D D in this all??
Need you all to read it so i can tell you all about the song and D D and maybe you can see and understand what is was like for us all then
LOOKING FOR ROCK REPORT SOON !!!!!!
MRS. D


ric112
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Reply
Re: FYI Now Available

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Thanks Mrs. D for the very nice post. And I hope many people can be "free" at last now that the truth is out.

Rock: I am happy you got the book and look forward to your comments.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


The Amityville Rock
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(4/6/02 9:40:33 pm)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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Scaning through it (as I do not want to give anything away yet, and I think part of it has all ready been posted here) I'll say right off that I now understand the whole fly thing much better


jbmeister
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(4/7/02 1:01:09 am)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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yuck.. i didnt want to understand that.


The Amityville Rock
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Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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JB it is not what you think; at least not what was outlined in the Martin/Weber interview of August of '79.
I'd say more, but I do not want to give anything away.


jbmeister
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(4/8/02 12:04:43 am)
Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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You're not giving anything away.. I read Ric's book the 1st day i got it..now im re-reading it


The Amityville Rock
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Reply Re: FYI Now Available

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It was about Dawn being messy (and leaving food in her room).


sherbetbizarre
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(4/8/02 1:05:50 pm)
Reply old?

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I thought that was old news..?


The Amityville Rock
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Reply Re: old?

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That is why Sherb it did not bother me posting that I see why the Lutzes included that claim in their "True" story.
See in my mind the Lutzes would think that by including that little tid bit (and many more akind to it), that they would thus lend their "True" story something it would have otherwise been lacking, real facts about those who lived in the house prior to to themselves. Thus it also show why William Weber's part in this whole mess was so important in creating the "Amityville Horror" stories. Not only form the Lutz side of things, but also for others later involed like Hans Holzer for example.

Edited by: The Amityville Rock at: 4/8/02 1:16:04 pm


sherbetbizarre
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(4/8/02 2:18:03 pm)
Reply flies

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Taking bits from the life of the DeFeo's and twisting them into the horror story seems a little lazy... not to mention obvious... too easy to trace back to a hoax. Would they really leave themselves that wide open?


The Amityville Rock
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Reply Re: flies

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That is a question best answered by the parties involed, not myself.

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Brendan72
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Post by Brendan72 » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:22 am

Sherb: No, I never tracked down any jurors because I never felt I needed to. Rather, I made better use of my time and resources by gathering other material. Because if I were any of the jurors, I would have found Butch DeFeo guilty, too. Albeit, there were items I am sure they were skeptical of the entire prosecution's claims, but not enough to aqcuit Butch. You'll understand from reading the book. You also have to understand that many of the incriminating things I referenced about Sullivan were either said outside the presence of the jury or during the post-hearing conference which was prior to jury selection. Nevertheless, they still became part of the official record.
1. Well it seems convenient for Osuna to say that he never bothered to track down any of the jurors. Either that or he just didn't reveal anything the jurors said (if he did speak to any) for the simple reason that they didn't say anything that supported his theories on the murders that would prove his theories as factual.

2. Where are we to see documentary evidence that Gerard Sullivan said something outside the presence of the jury or during post-hearing conferences that could support his claims that Sullivan said incriminating things?

Again, the above two are hearsay and conjecture, and cannot be supported by any credible evidence. Yet we were supposed to swallow the tripe he was dishing out and take his claims on face value?

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Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:17 am

NeverEndingStory
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Reply just a quick ?....

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We all have opinions, and many will be different. That is what makes people unique. If we spend all our time trying to convince others to see things our way, wouldn't that kinda be like a cult? Who would be the leader of this one? Ronnie? Ric? Mrs D? Why not let these people voice there opinions and not try to change there minds? Why all the arguing? Why not just stop trying to make other see things your way, you tell them your interpretation, and they make there own choice as to what they want to beleive or not. But back to my quick ?....
Ric wrote:

That is, of course, in addition to speaking to her children, one of which is Butch DeFeo's. In fact, she is the spitting image of Dawn DeFeo.
After reading many posts on many boards, I was led to beleive there was more than one child, and one was male, are you saying now there is only one child? Just give me the fact and let me make my own opinion. Thanks.


ric112
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Re: just a quick ?....

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All viewpoints are welcomed here as long as the rules are respected. Troublemakers will and have been banned not because of their beliefs, but because of their constant disregard for the rules and requests from the moderators to stay on track.

Mrs. D and Butch DeFeo only had one daughter together, but Butch DeFeo was a stepfather to Mrs. D's other daughters.

If you would like to read or understand more, then I suggest you visit the link below. Do not solely rely on what is said on message boards.

www1.xlibris.com/thenightthedefeosdied.html

The Truth Will Set You Free...


NeverEndingStory
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Reply Re: just a quick ?....

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So I am to understand that Mrs. D has one child with Butch, and has other daughters, how many are there, and are they all girls?


ric112
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Re: just a quick ?....

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Because of reasons of privacy, I am not prepared to go into how many children Mrs. D has. But, I will say that Butch was a stepfather to her two oldest daughters a few years before his own daughter was born. His daughter and her stepsister are interviewed in my book.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

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Brendan72
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Post by Brendan72 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:46 am

I found a former NBC reporter who intereviewed other neighbors soon after the murders. He, too, found those who heard the shots. Yet the alleged DeFeo-Mob ties prevented the neighbors from speaking out. In other words, they did not want to get involved. And they were off the hook when the police announced that Butch was the guilty party the day after the murders.
Who was the former NBC reporter? You see this is another example of Osuna making claims without backing them up. Or he'd just say "you have to read my book to find out!"

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Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:17 am

He was still telling me to "read the book" after it had come out... even though what I was asking was never even in the book!

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Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:26 am

AMHREAL
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Reply Why

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(This message was left blank)

Edited by: AMHREAL at: 4/16/02 9:13:53 pm


ozz112
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Reply Re: Why

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If ric has proof beyond a reasonable doubt that ronnie was forced by the police to make a confession that was false and the coroner, police, detectives, judge, court, etc were all corrupt and in a conspiracy against ronnie defeo, then why is ronnie defeo still behind bars? or at the very least, why hasn't he been granted a new trial? Anyone else having a hard time getting things to add up here?

ozz

Edited by: ozz112 at: 3/31/02 8:06:37 pm


ric112
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Reply
Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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My book references much information to support my claims, including that there were other accomplices in the murder; that Weber conspired with the Lutzes before the DeFeo trial; that the Amityville horror was a hoax; that Judge Stark was not an impartial judge; that a.d.a. Sullivan was more interested in a conviction than the truth; that the Suffolk County police were a corrupt organization reminiscent of the Nazi Gestapo; that many witnesses came forward through the years to tell the real story; that Butch DeFeo was forced to plead insanity because he could not get a fair trial, a ploy that created the hoax.

And if you don't think I am qualified, then prove me wrong. You spend 18 months gathering documentation, interviews, researching and see what you can come up with...but don't forget to cite your sources. In the back of my book, you will find 13 pages of end notes, which should help you in your own investigation. :wink:

I am going to repeat and add to what Mike Reilly brilliantly summed up. For the ultimate AH believer, my book poses a great threat. Not because it is self-published, but because it provides incontrovertible proof of the real story. Intelligent readers won't be able to ignore the facts listed in it.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


AMHREAL
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Reply Re: Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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(This message was left blank)

Edited by: AMHREAL at: 4/16/02 9:30:53 pm


ric112
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Re: Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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I presented the information in the book as objectively as possible. An investigative journalist exposes deception at it's core rather than tippy-toe around the subject matter. Take, for example, CBS's "60 Minutes" or NBC's "Dateline." Often, their investigative reporters take hidden cameras while they venture undercover to expose a crime, fraud, or troubling situation that they want the public to be aware of. If you are refering to my answers to Ozz's questions as a personal attack against the Lutzes, then you are quite mistaken. They lied. It is as simple as that. I wish them no ill-will. But, I will not skate over the subject matter because you are a believer in their ludicrous claims that wound up in books and movies purporting to be true. The entire hoax proved to be a big consumer rip-off.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


ozz112
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(4/1/02 12:13:10 am)
Reply Re: Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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That still doesn't answer the question to IF you have all this new found evidence of corruption, deception and lies on behalf of the police, judge, coroner, court, detectives, lawyers, etc etc, and evidence that ronnie's confession was beaten out of him, then WHY oh WHY hasn't he been let free or AT THE LEAST been granted a new trial?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 961
(4/1/02 12:54:51 am)
Reply
Re: Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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Because it is a very political thing. After all, he is the notorious Amityville murderer. Read my book and understand the evidence.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


grizzerb
Registered User
Posts: 39
(4/1/02 10:37:08 am)
Reply Re: Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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If you haven't seen my post, YES, please read Ric's book. I received it Friday and finished it by Sunday. It answers a LOT of questions. You might not be as skeptical about the murders after you read the book... It makes a lot of things clear. There are two things in the book that disturbed me, as in shock and disgust. I don't want to spoil the book, but they both have to do with DAWN. You'll figure it out when you read the book...

Like Ric says, buy the book and you'll have answers.

Have a good day, all!!


Lynn


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 26
(4/1/02 3:06:09 pm)
Reply Re: Why as 'why' when you haven't even read the book?

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WHY..........
Why dont you shut up OZZ dear child?
Go on that other board and wine and crab and boo hoo.
You do not know what you are talking about.
Butch has been in the courts for TWENTY SIX YEARS trying to get a new trial.But Butch is still a MUDERER.
Stop asking your dumb bell questions over and over again.
The fact is you cant speak on this subject because you do not know what you are talking about.
QUESTION FOR YOU ......How is your uncle ?
You said you would post how wrong Ric and i are about Butch haveing any claim to his estate before he was found guilty.
Your shenanigans are so silly .
Poor thing have you nothing better to do with your life?
Maybe you should make predictions take MS.Cleo's place while she is away?
But for your own sake child get a life ,i do not think that you can get money for being nothing more then a bothersome little child.


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 89
(4/1/02 3:08:18 pm)
Reply mrs d.

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My uncle? lol, Don't tell me ric is doing more research? You guys think this is some big conspiracy. I'm just someone interested in the Amityville Horror and hold people accountable for claims they make. why don't you show us some evidence you were ever married to ronnie and before the murders? 'nuff said

Edited by: ozz112 at: 4/1/02 3:12:07 pm


grizzerb
Registered User
Posts: 40
(4/1/02 3:17:52 pm)
Reply Re: mrs d.

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READ THE BOOK, OZZ...

it's all in there... 'nuff said.


Lynn..


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 90
(4/1/02 3:31:14 pm)
Reply Re: mrs d.

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Griz: I am going to be reading it very soon, but why don't you tell us what evidence, yes, not what ric simply says, but what evidence he presents in the book to prove gerri was married to ronnie before the murders. Does he have a marriage certificate? divorce certificate? legal document from state saying they lost both of these documents, but they were in fact married before the murders? Does he explain why gerri and ronnie's marriage and divorce documents seem to have vanished?


grizzerb
Registered User
Posts: 41
(4/1/02 3:42:13 pm)
Reply Re: mrs d.

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I'm not going to spoil it for the others, but it will ALL make sense when you read the book.

I admit, I was skeptical too about some of the "valid points" Ric gave, but you'll see when you read the book. It's worth it, believe me. You will be shocked and horrified when you find out what REALLY happened November 13, 1974. I think your opinion will definitely change. I know mine has..

Take care!

Lynn


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 27
(4/1/02 4:49:44 pm)
Reply Re: mrs d.

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OZZ ........
You must have forgotten your post about New York State Attorney sending you the information .
I said Butch had access to the estate until found guilty.
Ric commented this was true .you said you had PROOF from New York State Attorney Ric and i were lying.
I believe you said this man was your uncle.
The affidavets Ric has in his possession were entered to grant a new trial to Butch .
The Judge stated he did not care he was holding with the evidence of the first trial.
And every motion after that has been tossed out by the court
If you do not wish to believe the court was contaminated that is your choice.
The coroners testimony is in Rics book i do not recall all of it was ever made public.
So see ozzie dear child we are not asking you to really shut up but just be good until you see for your self .
As you do not know what you are talking about.
But that still will not be evidence for you .
You will be miserable and make your own interpretation that it all is not true, because you are a bad bad boy just like Butch is and make up things you like much better
You even harp on your own interpretation the way Butch does
You and Butch are a lot a like .


AMHREAL
Registered User
Posts: 40
(4/1/02 5:23:07 pm)
Reply tsk,tsk,tsk

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Edited by: AMHREAL at: 4/16/02 9:31:34 pm


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 966
(4/1/02 5:32:52 pm)
Reply
Give us a break

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I am pretty sure that since you were the one standing in front of the judge, preacher or high priest saying "I Do" then we should assume that you have some proof...
She does. I've already outlined many instances of the proof I've independently received from sources. That is, of course, in addition to speaking to her children, one of which is Butch DeFeo's. In fact, she is the spitting image of Dawn DeFeo.

If and when you order my book, you'll see I discuss this material.

And how do we know that George and Kathy Lutz were really married? Because they say so.

Oh, and Ozz was nothing but a troublemaker and not a legitimate poster interested in details. Many of us are glad he is gone since he detracted from the discussions.
But since you decided to marry a sociopath then air your laundry on the net then you must accept a little critisizm.


She didn't decide to air her laundry on the Net. But thanks for making the case for me as to why I wrote a book and not simply put all the information on a Web site. And if you would care to do a little research then you would know that Butch DeFeo was not a sociopath. Maybe he wasn't a choir boy, but he was not an antisocial, Charles Manson-wannabe.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 4/1/02 5:35:36 pm


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 29
(4/1/02 7:35:13 pm)
Reply Re: Give us a break

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Well my my my
Now how do you know what a person is like when you do not know them ?
How do you get to know them ?
That comes from getting married to them and spending time with them.
My laundry as you call it is not all over the net.
As to MR ozz well he has a very nasty little mouth or maybe you have never seen the post about Ric Osuna his wife or me .
And none of them had any thing to do with the subject of Rics book or my marriage to Butch.
As for me staying hidden another twenty years ,well i really could not .
Not when you have a person trying to sell crime scene photos to a rag news paper.
Not when you have to see that no one knows that even Butch Defeo should have a fair trial before he dies.
I do not understand how any person can speak on a subject that they have little or no information on?
I do not care who believes me or not .
The book is more important then i am ,the other information in it is what counts.
Butch will never get a fair chance in the courts not even today.
But it is about time the whole truth comes out .
Butch is a murderer any way you look at it ,but everone should be treated fair in our courts .
So IF I GET A LITTLE MIFFED THAT PEOPLE ARE MISSING THE POINT AND HARPING ON ONE THING rather then see the important things well i think that is my right.
The book is not centered around me ,it is on truth.
Ric Osuna worked very hard on this and long he should at least
be given some respect and not have to repeat him self over and over again .
As to Butch being a socipath i take offense to that term for him.
Murderer,egotistical ,melodramatic ,opinionated,braggart,
maliciouse,sardonic,con,disfunctional,habitual lying jerk YES
BUT NOT SOCIPATH
I do not wish Butch to be set free that is Gods choice not mine.
BUT I DO WISH THE PUBLIC TO SEE WHAT HIS LIFE WAS.
I do wish the public to see what the police and courts did to him and others.
I do wish the public to see the Defeo family as they really were.
I do wish to put and end to the tails of Butch,one story is he was a drug crazy.Not true but how many people know that?
How about he worshiped the devil A BUNCH OF PURE BULL
Critiszm ? I can put up with but just plain bull i think not


AMHREAL
Registered User
Posts: 41
(4/1/02 9:38:31 pm)
Reply Riley

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Edited by: AMHREAL at: 4/16/02 9:32:13 pm


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 969
(4/1/02 10:28:26 pm)
Reply
Too bad

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If you want to hear the good times that the DeFeos experienced, then buy my book. After all, you even suggested that Geraldine should not air her dirty laundry out on the Net. Besides, that was what the book was written for...to discuss the DeFeos good and bad times. So read the book.

However, if you are bent on keeping faithful to the old stories that people like Gerard Sullivan and Hans Holzer fabricated then don't waste your time reading my book. You won't like the information in it since it'll destroy your comfortable myth that all bad things in Amityville should be blamed on Ronnie "Butch" DeFeo. I feel sorry for you to judge a man without even knowing the legitimate facts of the case. What it must feel like to want to see someone swing from a rope. Actually, wanting to see someone swing from a rope is more sociopathic than civilized. :wink:

A good example of an antisocial personality was Ozz. And that is why he was banned. You see he could not interact with others on the forum. Yet, you seem to imply that it was wrong for him to be banned and complain that Mike Reilly was unfair. But Mike Reilly acted properly and repeatedly warned Ozz, who repeatedly ignored the rules and the requests from me and Mike to stop the nonsense.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 4/1/02 10:52:56 pm


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 33
(4/2/02 10:34:54 am)
Reply Re: Too bad

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SWING FROM A ROPE???
Are you taking up where ozz left off?
Ronald Joseph Defeo Jr. is a Murderer what he did was wrong.
He is in prison where he should be!!!
But he deserves to have a fair trial.
People need to know what was done in our courts in this country,what is still being done in some places today.
Your derogatory remarks put you back in the stone age.
We live in a democracy that states we have equal rights equal opportunity and equal treatment for all.
If Butch should ever get a new trial the fact is he did committe murder,and the conclusion would stay the same.
Life in prison.
You feel sympathetic about the Defeos but it is fine all the shoddy storys about them should still be told?
It is one thing to tell the bad with the good as long as it is truth,but to make up things just to write a book is mockery.
FOR YOUR INFORMATION AGAIN.........
RIC OSUNA WROTE A BOOK NOT ON THINGS THAT I TOLD HIM
What i did tell him other people CORROBORATED he did not just take my word.
RIC OSUNA GOT DOCUMENTS to PROVE everthing that BUTCH
TOLD HIM WAS TRUE
RIC OSUNA GOT DOCUMENTS PROVING WHAT I TOLD HIM WAS TRUE.
RIC OSUNA GOT THE HOMICIDE SQUADS DOCUMENTED PAPER WORK.
THE TRIAL TRANSCRIPTS FROM THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS OFFICE.
We had to sit in the DA CONFERENCE LIBRARY TO READ THEM
RIC OSUNA COULD NOT TAKE THEM OUT OF THE ROOM .
RIC OSUNA HAD TO PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO HAVE THE STAFF OF THE DA OFFICE COPY THEM.
RIC OSUNA GOT CRIME SCENE PHOTOS NEVER BEFORE SEEN
AND LAB REPORTS FROM THE SUFFOLK COUNTY HOMICIDE SQUAD LAB.
RIC OSUNA HAD THE CHIEF OF SUFFOLK COUNTY HOMICIDE SQUAD GIVE HIM COPYS OF THE HOMICIDE SQUADS OWN PAPER WORK ON THE DEFEO CASE STILL ON GOING
I AM NOT THE IMPORTANT PART OF THAT BOOK.
THE TRUTH IS ABOUT EVERTHING.
YOU CAN TISK TISK YOUR SELF CALL ME WHAT EVER
BUT THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH AND IT ALWAYS WILL BE.
SO PLEASE SHOW RESPECT FOR MR OSUNA BECAUSE YOU COULD NEVER KNOW WHAT THAT MAN WENT THROUGH TO WRITE THAT BOOK.
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT I HAVE SAID THEN ALL I CAN SAY IS GO COMMISERATE WITH OZZ


Dvinn
Registered User
Posts: 13
(4/2/02 2:24:45 pm)
Reply Re: Too bad

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Ric are you such a great researcher?

Do you really think that cold wind "rolls in" from the Great South Bay?

This was your reasoning for why the Lutzes claimed cold spots, if you don't recall, it's on your website as one of the reasons why the case is a hoax.

Please tell me how you arrived at this conclusion. How much research did you do?

-Dvinn

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9711
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:27 am

MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 6
(3/19/02 8:50:53 pm)
TO OZZ

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May i ask who are you to want me to prove my self to you?
May i ask why i should care?
All i cared about is that RIC OSUNA COULD BACK UP HIS FACTS!!
SO NOW I ASK YOU THIS MR OZZ.
Walk with me in to Suffolk county homicide squad and see who i am.
Stand with me in the Suffolk County District Attorneys office
as i request paper work.
Come with me to the Amityville police station to get the crime report of that night.
Go with me to talk to Barry Springers at his house.
Look at the estate papers with me in Brooklyn
Open the door of the church with me and see where six coffens were placed.
Pray with me at the grave for the six of them to rest in peace.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 855
(3/19/02 10:09:17 pm)

Re: TO OZZ

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I doubt Brad has enough courage for that Gerri.

But ya' never know, eh? So how about it, Ozz? Want to meet us in Amityville some time?
The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 3/19/02 10:19:06 pm


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 26
(3/20/02 1:10:35 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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Mrs. D:

You can't prove you were married to ronnie before the murders. That's a fact. Even though ric has claimed to have evidence to back this up, he can't produce it. Surely, New York didn't lose everything pertaining to a marriage certificate and a divorce certificate? If you expect us to believe that, you are sadly mistaken. Prove it or we can only assume that IF you were married to ronnie, it was after the murders. You want me to take your word on it? come on

ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 861
(3/20/02 1:16:18 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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So you are too chicken to take her up on her offer, Ozz, of venturing with us all over Suffolk County, visiting known associates of Ronnie, the Suffolk County D.A., and the Suffolk County cops? No, I think you have proven, yet again, you are the one that nobody should take seriously.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 29
(3/20/02 1:19:32 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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Why do you refuse to answer simple questions? are you claiming the state of New York some how lost BOTH their marriage certificate and death certificate? That seems really strange to me.


ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 863
(3/20/02 1:26:30 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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Don't know if you are coming or going, huh, Brad? It's not a death certificate; they're not dead.

I have already answered your question. Yes, I have official paperwork from the State of New York verifying Gerldine DeFeo's claims.

You still didn't answer my question, slugger. Won't you venture into Amityville with us and meet the DA himself?

The Truth Will Set You Free...


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 31
(3/20/02 1:31:17 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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Sorry, I meant divorce certificate. I didn't ask for "official paperwork from the State of New York verifying Gerldine DeFeo's claims." I asked for official documentation from the state of New York verifying Geraldine's claims of marrying ronnie before the murders. I know how you work pal. I'm sure you have paperwork verifying some claims of gerri like her birth and the such, but do you have a divorce cert or marriage cert verifying she was married to ronnie before the murders? and if not, why? do you claim the state of New York lost BOTH these documents?

ozz

P.S. the questions won't go away, just answer them


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 865
(3/20/02 2:39:28 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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I have already answered them. And if you want to know how else I verified Geraldine's claims then READ the book.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 7
(3/20/02 6:53:14 am)
Re: TO OZZ

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May i ask again who you are that i must prove myself to you??
I do not know you,you are not an important person in my life,you are no part of my life.
You and your words mean nothing to me.
Give me a good reason as to why i should care what you think about me?
Because i really do not care what you think about me or anything for that matter.
And who said i was married in the state of New York?
And i just took my self down to the surogate court in Brooklyn and put my name on the estate of Louise & Ronald Defeo.
And i just go to a renowned judge and say give me papers.
Oh and then i go to the law firm of the Brigante /Defeo family and ask them to do legel work for me.
You could see twenty thousand papers and yell fake.
You will never change your mind ,you are a die hard Lutz groupie so stay that way.
I owe you nothing you are nothing to me and nothing i care to concern myself with.
You demand ,harass and slander as if you are so important to all of this Ric and i must comply with your every demand.
Well im sad to tell you this BRAD but i do not have time for all of your stupid obessed games
Go over on that other board and contaminate it.
It is very stupid of any of us to try and point out fact to you.
Your interpretation is only the way OZZ wants it to be
Remember in the movie the wizard of ozz??
OZZ was nothing trying to make himself out as this awesome
wizard who knew it all
Well you picked the name you use to fit you.
Just a little nobody trying so hard to show everyone you know it all and are a big somebody
THE GREAT OZZ


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 868
(3/20/02 11:30:43 am)
Well Said

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Well said, Mrs. D. Ozz's only purpose here seems to be a disruptive one. As I pointed out yesterday, he will say the opposite thing just to argue.


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 35
(3/20/02 1:30:44 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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All I read was the first sentence and I had read enough Mrs. Defeo. Aren't you part of the story? Aren't you ric's proof for about everything? Aren't you the one claiming that you were in a meeting between lutz and webber? YET, you can't even prove you were married to ronnie? Nothing more needs to be said about you. If you can't even prove you were married to ronnie before the murders, then you aren't part of the story. Do you really expect us to believe that the state of New York lost all record of your marriage AND your divorce? That's just a little hard to swallow.

ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 876
(3/20/02 1:55:52 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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Ozz I think it's time you go back to the other board and stay there. You are only here to disrupt a legitimate discussion. Your insults to Mrs. D will no longer be tolerated, especially since you ignored her questions. Since you are not interested in reading my book, you won't be interested in the information I have obtained proving the horror stories to be all a hoax or proving that Mrs. D is legit.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 3/20/02 1:56:59 pm



ric112
Moderator
Posts: 877
(3/20/02 1:58:37 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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By the way, how do we know that George and Kathy Lutz were married? We never saw their marriage certificate.
The Truth Will Set You Free...


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 40
(3/20/02 1:58:39 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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I havn't been rude to her at all, but in the past she has threatened physical harm to people on the truth board. I'm still waiting for a marriage cert? divorce cert? how about a verifiable document from the state of new york saying that they lost both? anything?

ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 878
(3/20/02 2:00:05 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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She never threatened anyone. If she had, then you would have gladly filed a complaint. AOL doesn't take threats lightly and they take action immediately. So obviously it was not her that sent you that E-mail.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 42
(3/20/02 2:05:19 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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ric: you don't want me to repost any of her posts where she is cussing like a drunken sailor do you? OH wait, that is conveniently against the rules. lol. how convenient.

ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 881
(3/20/02 2:12:18 pm)
Re: TO OZZ

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Ozz enough already. Act your age or go elsewhere. Your antics are quite juvenile.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 10
(3/21/02 10:23:23 am)
Reply To Whom It May Concern

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Ric put this board up for inteligent conversation and debate.
Everyone is allowed his or her opinion.
OZZ had the audacity to say i cuss like a drunken sailor,but forgot to mention that i was called some very disgusting names on that other board.
Told i was illiterate a barmaid and made fun of.
What was said about Ric Osuna and his wife was despicable.
What was said about Roger Stacy was disparaging.
What was said about Rock was maliciouse.
What was said about Dave was inimical.
The filthy language,comments,and allegations made about us are acceptable by their standards.
Any slight contradiction or challenge to them or question we do not ansewer is considered an insult by them.
It is not necessary i elaborate every last detail of my life to anyone.
If you want proof i am real LOOK IN THE BOOK
OZZ what happened to you uncle who was going to show us the New York law on the estate??
I see now Mike is just as illiterate as i.
But moveing on................
Butch worshiped the devil my ass!!
How is it he had and has tons of friends and family that never knew of this?
Boy he must have been slick keeping that hidden.
I am not the main part of the book .
The book is about the Defeo family ,the trial ,Suffolk County homicide squad ,the cover up etc etc etc,NOT ME.
NEXT lets get it right about Ric.
When we first talked Ric did not believe alot of what Mr.Lutz had told him.
He told me he had written letters to people George said could
give him Ric,documeted proof of what george said.
And most letters he got answers to said they never were contacted by George Lutz.
Ric went all over looking for people George told him were real only to find they were not.
He still thought George had some credibility UNTIL i told him a few things that he felt were impossible for me to know
Now what the hell was Ric going to think when i told him things and told him how to get the paperwork to prove i was telling the truth.
What was he going to think when i had photos no one else had? Photos no one ever saw?
Or i told him how to find people the history channel could not?
What was he going to think when i take him to friends of Butchie boys no one can find or get near.
What was he going to think when i get Butch to see him and he does not have to have money to pay Butch to talk.
What is he going to think when i give him letters from years ago from Butch or that Butch has sent me from his attorneys.
What is he going to think when he asks Brian Kelske if his father said i was Butchs wife before the murders and Brian tells him yes his father told him that and more.
What is he going to think when every one of Butchs friends in the book High hopes tells him Gerri is real.
What is he going to think when he sits in Barry Springers house and is told Barry has known me 33 years,and Barry and his wife tell him how long i have been married to Butch.
Ric was all ready finding it very hard to believe alot of the things George said before i came along
Ric Osuna is a honorable man and believed in Mr. Lutz until a multitude of people showed him otherwise.
Other people who have nothing to do with the Defeo /Brigante family.
Add the Defeo /Brigante family Butch and all his old friends and what was Ric to do?
NEXT i asked Ric to do the book .
I did not ask for money or to be in news papers ,TV,or famous.
I asked only that his representation of the family good or bad be truthful
That he represent the murder case ,investigation.Suffolk County.and all people involvede exactly as it happened.
Ric asked that all paper work pertaining to this case be certified and well documented.
Ric Osuna owes no one ,he has authorization for every word he wrote.
He has proof for every word he wrote.
His reason to publish his book the way he did is of no concern .
The book is out and that is all that matters.
Yes it will be out later by a publisher but it is out for now and can be purchased that is all that is important
THE BOARD.........
Is not for slander accusation,anger,malice,mockery threats,gossip or garbage.
What it is for ..... is conversation ,debate,comment,discussion of theory,interest.and knowledge.
Many are curious the mystery of the case,the tragedy.
So why act rediculouse let us all just enjoy this board.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 893
(3/21/02 10:56:44 pm)
Reply
Re: To Whom It May Concern

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MRS D,

There are those that really don't see Amityville as anything but a story of a house with eye-like windows.

There are those that fail to realize that the human side of Amityville is so much more fascinating and tragic.

I will never begin to understand people like Ozz since he seems contempt in causing so much misery. You don't owe him, or any of us for that matter, anything. You owe Butch nothing. You owe the media nothing.

You've lived Amityville for more than a quarter of a century while characters like Ozz simply watched it on TV. People like him don't realize that it is not something you can simply turn off when you grow tired of it.

They never had to face an entirely corrupt justice system. Most of them have never even ventured to put a flower on the DeFeo grave, let alone pray in St. Martins. Yet they know it all, right?

Rather, they know very little of what has haunted you for all of these years; what has haunted your daughters. You or your daughters have never asked for a dime; never asked to be famous. That is the one thing, above everything else, that allowed me to listen to you with my undivided attention. George Lutz, however, was a much different party to work with. For him, it was not about the truth, but about money, contracts and rights. His threatening E-mail and trademark information corroborates this.

Mike Reilly said it perfectly when he explained that the reason certain true believers are afraid to order my book is not because it is self-published, but because they are too scared to be confronted with facts that will forever destroy the hoax in their minds. Maybe that is better, though. After all, the real story is so much scarier than a giant peeping pig with glowing red eyes. So as Jack Nicholson said in "A Few Good Men," they can't handle the truth.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

User avatar
ozz
Minister Of Logic
Posts: 92

Post by ozz » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:13 pm

Thanks for the reposts Sherb....bring a tear to my eye. The good ol days. Still waiting for the "proof" that gerri was married to ronnie before the murders, but as ric later said....the mafia destroyed it all and burned his car.

ozz

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9711
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:48 pm

Helen33
Registered User
Posts: 1
(3/19/02 9:08:37 pm)
Reply Ric's Book

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While I am eager to read as we all are but wondering if it is a "made to order" so to speak book and I mean no disrespect about that but will it look like a regular paperback or hardcover book or will it come in a something like a three ring binder or anything like that.

I am Canadian so waiting a month or two in hopes the price will come down but very excited about.

And if I can ask how many pages of pictures are there and about how many pages details with the Lutz's?

Don't worry I will get a copy.

Thanks


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 854
(3/19/02 10:06:41 pm)
Reply
Re: Ric's Book

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Hi Helen:

No, the book is either hardcover or paperback based on your choice. It is a high-quality book with a beautiful laminated cover or dust jacket depending on whether you choose paperback or hardcover. It is exactly what you would find at a bookstore, so no 3-ring binder. Inside, is a total of 389 pages, 13 of which are endnotes, and 30 black-and-white photos. Regarding the hoax chapter, it is quite a large chapter.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 3/19/02 10:21:42 pm



ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 27
(3/20/02 1:13:17 am)
Reply Re: Ric's Book

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Hello,

Also with no disrespect to ric, but to really answer your question which was to quote you:
"While I am eager to read as we all are but wondering if it is a "made to order" so to speak book"
Yes, it is a "made to order" book. On their site, they say they make the books as they are ordered. They also say they are "NOT publishers" but people pay them to copy books for them. If you doubt these facts, go to their site and read about them.

thanks
ozz


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 862
(3/20/02 1:21:48 am)
Reply
Re: Ric's Book

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For your information, Ozz, it is called Print-on-Demand technology and in the future every major bookstore chain will have technology where a customer comes in, orders a book and five minutes later one is made for them right there on the premises. You know very little about the future of the publishing world. Each book made by Xlibris is of a better quality than a book that is mass-produced. In fact, Random House--the largest publishing house in the world-- owns almost half of Xlibris. By all your constant complaints, Ozz, you are showing just how scared you are of my book and the information inside of it. Otherwise, you would let it speak for itself. Keep up the good work, Ozz, your constant bickering is a great incentive for people to just buy the book themselves to see for themselves who is right and who is wrong.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


ozz112
Registered User
Posts: 30
(3/20/02 1:26:56 am)
Reply Re: Ric's Book

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Hey, if they want to buy it, all the power to them. I wasn't trying to do anything but to HONESTLY answer her question.

ozz

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